Catholic School Teacher Fired for Nontradional Pregnancy

[gpw]

This is a very exclusive and competitive all girls Catholic School.  


Link


UPDATE: This story was updated at 7:30 p.m. Friday to reflect new information provided by Barbara Webb, who says the reason she was terminated is not because she is gay but because she became pregnant by nontraditional means



BLOOMFIELD HILLS, MI -- Barbara Webb, a former teacher at Marian High School in Bloomfield Hills, a Catholic all-girls private school, says her ex-employer fired her for getting pregnant by nontraditional means.



Webb took to Facebook Wednesday to tell her story which had been shared over 650 times as of Friday morning.



Webb says she is 14 weeks pregnant and when she approached administration with the news, she was fired.



I went to them with the "sole purpose of making an effort not to be public," Webb said Friday.



Webb says she knew her pregnancy would become obvious and she hoped to take a leave until she had her baby. She says the teacher contract is "pretty vague" but forbid teachers from disobeying Catholic doctrine with "anything that would be a public display."



Webb said on Facebook:



Marian was unwilling to offer me any type of leave and of course they were not willing to grant me the same right that a half dozen other teachers are enjoying this year while starting their families. In fact, Marian's options to me, after 9 years of dedication including league winning coaching, 4.0 averages in AP chemistry scores, PD for the school based on my personal best practices, and dozens of students and family testimonials is 1) resign or 2) we will terminate you.

Webb claims she was offered medical coverage through May, but in exchange she had to sign a gag order forbidding her from talking about the separation.



"Well, you're damn right I wasn't going to sign something that said I willing was leaving and their $4k of health insurance wasn't enough to buy my silence," she wrote.



"Because this is a personnel matter, it is confidential," said Patricia McCarthy, a spokeswoman for Marian High School. "We would really have no further comment on that."



Marian High School was closed Friday for Labor Day Weekend.



"We sponsor of he institution but we don’t make any of the personnel decisions," said Molly Hunt, spokeswoman for IMH Sisters in Monroe, a faith-based organization that opened Marian High School in the early-1960s. " I don’t’ have any information I can provide.



"We let the sponsored schools maintain their autonomy. Each school is responsible for its own personnel and policy."



Because it is a Catholic school, there is an affiliation with the Archdiocese of Detroit, although Archdiocese spokesman Ned McGrath says the private school operates independently.



"It is my understanding there was a personnel matter with one of the teachers, who is no longer an employee at Marian," McGrath said in an email to MLive Detroit. "As is the established practice with personnel matters, neither the school nor the Detroit archdiocese will have anything additional to say."



April DeBoer, who with her partner Jayne Rowse filed a lawsuit that reversed the state's gay marriage ban, a decision now pending appeal, says she met Webb's partner Thursday at the Detroit Tigers baseball game in Comerica Park.



Webb said she has not made any decision about legal action but is seeking counsel.



Webb who no longer appears on Marian High School's online teacher directory, formerly taught chemistry and coached freshman volleyball. She said she was terminated two weeks ago.



"The fact that I'm gay was never brought up, so that’s definitely not by any means the reason," Webb said. "I would say it's the fact that I'm pregnant by nontraditional means."



Webb declined to elaborate on the nontraditional means she used.





Webb's full Facebook post:



Well, for those of you that haven't heard, Kristen and I are expecting our first baby. I'm about 14 weeks. We are very excited and blessed and look forward to all that parenting will be.

On the flip side of the coin, Marian was unwilling to offer me any type of leave and of course they were not willing to grant me the same right that a half dozen other teachers are enjoying this year while starting their families. In fact, Marian's options to me, after 9 years of dedication including league winning coaching, 4.0 averages in AP chemistry scores, PD for the school based on my personal best practices, and dozens of students and family testimonials is 1) resign or 2) we will terminate you.



Their offer of resignation included health care through May, of course they claimed it was to help their conscience after firing a pregnant woman for no other reason than for being pregnant and getting pregnant outside the Catholic way...but really I think they were interested in the gag order that came along with it.



Well, you're damn right I wasn't going to sign something that said I willing was leaving and their $4k of health insurance wasn't enough to buy my silence.



It is a shame because Marian is an amazing school with a wonderful staff and a very promising student body. I feel horrible for the students that I was forced to leave behind and wish them only the best. I feel sickened for my colleagues who are disgusted with this decision but are forced into silence for fear for their own jobs.



It is part of Marian's mission to educate women about human diversity and in this have really missed out on a true life opportunity to set an example. Instead they are only perpetuating hate. Well I ask that those of you that are in a position to and feel a call to action in the face of injustice, stand up for change.



My job can't be saved but the torment that the poor LGBT students at Marian must be feeling ( right let's be real they exist too) the other LGBT staff ( again let's be real people) and those that are silenced by fear can be helped.



Speak out against hate wherever you see it. Whether it's writing a letter or calling Marian or setting a safe place in your own school or business. Don't be afraid to be the change that so many of us need you to be. It is only when the masses can stand up to injustice that we all may have a chance to fulfill our life dreams and ambitions.



I have had so many people reach out to me in the past few weeks. I feel some of them are hurting more than me because they feel helpless. So many have asked... If there is something I can do...anything...



Here is what you can do: make one conscience effort to stand up to hatred. Whether it is for LGBT rights or racial, or religious or socioeconomic or women's or special needs... Make yourself take that leap of faith to do the right thing and I promise you will not regret it, you may even find it catchy.



Please share this with as many people as you can. My intention is not to bad mouth Marian, but to help them be in a position where they are free to make the right decision in the future. Every act of justice that we can do collectively gets us one step further to a truly recognized human diversity.

[josieposy]

Fucking hell.

[gpw]

Makes me wonder if they make it a point to find out how every staff pregnancy is accomplished.

[LoveTrains]

Yuck.

[NewOrleans]

But the Virgin Mary's nontraditional pregnancy was a miracle. lol.

She won't be able to sue them. We've seen this time and again.

She should take her talents to South Beach and forget about that sanctimonious shithole. She's a female chem teacher. Some school will snap her up. In the meantime, Jesus will be shaking his head going, "That's not what I would have done, assholes. I didn't cast sinners out. I brought them in."

[LoveTrains]

Sept 2, 2014 18:40:19 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

But the Virgin Mary's nontraditional pregnancy was a miracle. lol.

She won't be able to sue them. We've seen this time and again.

She should take her talents to South Beach and forget about that sanctimonious shithole. She's a female chem teacher. Some school will snap her up. In the meantime, Jesus will be shaking his head going, "That's not what I would have done, assholes. I didn't cast sinners out. I brought them in."

But do you think it depends on the wording of the contract? 

I find this case more distasteful than others because it seems like she tried to do the right thing by offering to take a leave of absence for this entire year, before she was really showing. But I guess everyone would know she was out while PG so maybe that doesn't actually solve the problem? 

[taratru]

Sept 2, 2014 18:40:19 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

But the Virgin Mary's nontraditional pregnancy was a miracle. lol.

She won't be able to sue them. We've seen this time and again.

She should take her talents to South Beach and forget about that sanctimonious shithole. She's a female chem teacher. Some school will snap her up. In the meantime, Jesus will be shaking his head going, "That's not what I would have done, assholes. I didn't cast sinners out. I brought them in."

Yep.  What is so fucking hard about understanding this?

[erbear]

She should come to my school. It's a haven for LGBT teachers and we love babies

[auntie]

Ugh.

We had a similar situation here locally-

www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Gay-Teacher-Fired-After-Applying-to-Marry-Same-Sex-Partner-234907031.html

[emilyj]

Would they fire a straight, heterosexual married woman who had IVF/IUI/used clomid/surrogacy, etc?

No?

Ok then.

[NewOrleans]

Sept 2, 2014 20:23:16 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Would they fire a straight, heterosexual married woman who had IVF/IUI/used clomid/surrogacy, etc?

No?

Ok then.

Oh yes, they do it all the time.  That's why I said she can't sue and we see this happen all the time.

[Mrs.Rad888]

If the teacher hadn't volunteered the information, the school wouldn't have been allowed to ask her, right? I understand the teacher wanting to do the right thing, but I think it's just going to make teachers in the future more likely to keep their pregnancy a secret. 
And, like a PP asked, are they asking all the teachers how they got pregnant?

[emilyj]

Sept 2, 2014 20:26:54 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Sept 2, 2014 20:23:16 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Would they fire a straight, heterosexual married woman who had IVF/IUI/used clomid/surrogacy, etc?

No?

Ok then.

Oh yes, they do it all the time.  That's why I said she can't sue and we see this happen all the time.

Wait, really? I was being flip. Would they really fire a hetero married woman if they found out she went through IVF?

[downtoearth]

Or you can be hired and let go immediately at a Catholic school just for having a same-sex emergency contact - m.nydailynews.com/news/national/catholic-school-rescinds-gay-cafeteria-director-job-offer-article-1.1598465#bmb=1

Saying she was fired for how she got pregnant instead of being gay is just trying to get around discrimination laws, isn't it?

[irishbride2]

Sept 3, 2014 1:47:09 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Sept 2, 2014 20:26:54 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Oh yes, they do it all the time.  That's why I said she can't sue and we see this happen all the time.

Wait, really? I was being flip. Would they really fire a hetero married woman if they found out she went through IVF?

content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/04/catholic-school-teacher-claims-she-was-fired-for-using-ivf/1#.VAbnQ143dZg

abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1949131

[NewOrleans]

Sept 3, 2014 1:47:09 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Sept 2, 2014 20:26:54 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Oh yes, they do it all the time.  That's why I said she can't sue and we see this happen all the time.

Wait, really? I was being flip. Would they really fire a hetero married woman if they found out she went through IVF?

Yeah, Google Emily Herx or Christa Dias.

then see the morality clauses in Cincy and how they were expanded after the Dias case!  

There are also firings of gay teachers by bigoted, snooping religious schools, but I don't know the names offhand.

[irishbride2]

Sept 3, 2014 5:06:20 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Sept 3, 2014 1:47:09 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Wait, really? I was being flip. Would they really fire a hetero married woman if they found out she went through IVF?

Yeah, Google Emily Herx or Christa Dias.

then see the morality clauses in Cincy and how they were expanded after the Dias case!  

There are also firings of gay teachers by bigoted, snooping religious schools, but I don't know the names offhand.

Christa Dias was single (Doesn't make it ok, but doesn't fit Emily's question). I found another one that I posted above, though. 

[FloFTW]

Oh, Catholics. Good luck with this.

[msmerymac]

Sept 3, 2014 4:06:37 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Or you can be hired and let go immediately at a Catholic school just for having a same-sex emergency contact - m.nydailynews.com/news/national/catholic-school-rescinds-gay-cafeteria-director-job-offer-article-1.1598465#bmb=1

Saying she was fired for how she got pregnant instead of being gay is just trying to get around discrimination laws, isn't it?

Wait, what? Isn't pregnancy discrimination illegal at the federal level and sexual orientation discrimination only illegal on a state-by-state basis? 

I need an employment lawyer to clarify, but I think pregnancy falls under ability/disability status in the ADA or else family status in non-discrimination laws.

ETA: Or, actually, as I think Momi said once, pregnancy could fall under the gender clause of non-discrimination laws. Actually I think she mentioned that in regards to providing the opportunity to pump breastmilk to female employees, but similar concept - it's something that can only be done by one sex, so in essence, discrimination due to pregnancy is sex discrimination.

[dawnzersong]

Sept 3, 2014 4:06:37 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Or you can be hired and let go immediately at a Catholic school just for having a same-sex emergency contact - m.nydailynews.com/news/national/catholic-school-rescinds-gay-cafeteria-director-job-offer-article-1.1598465#bmb=1

Saying she was fired for how she got pregnant instead of being gay is just trying to get around discrimination laws, isn't it?

No- Michigan doesn't recognize sexual orientation as a protected class, so it's legal for an employer to fire someone for being gay. Additionally, religious institutions and their affiliates are generally exempt from nondiscrimination laws anyway if complying with the law would conflict with the teachings of their particular faith. In this case, I'm not sure what the school's motivation is in pointing to the teacher's method of becoming pregnant, since they would be within their rights to fire her for being gay. I'm assuming there's a "don't ask, don't tell" dynamic going on at the school regarding sexual orientation, but now that she's pregnant it's more difficult for the school to overlook the blatant conflict with Church teachings, even if she takes a leave of absence. Or maybe the school has wanted to fire her for her sexual orientation for awhile, but felt that it wouldn't go over well with the students and their parents, so they jumped on any other reason they could find to terminate her employment. At any rate, it's completely unfair but perfectly legal.

[jlt19]

I'm actually shocked she wasn't fired just for living with her partner (which I assume they do live together). I have a friend that lives with her bf and won't let her school find out b/c she knows she would get fired for it.

[Deleted]

I really don't understand why people keep working at Catholic institutions knowing it's just a matter of time before someone fires them for being who they are.

[miesl]

This is what you get when you exempt religious institutions from the law. If you are counter to the religious doctrines, don't work for them. It's really that simple. Until we make churches play by the same rules as civilized businesses, this shit will keep happening. But that will never happen, because discrimination is the bread and butter of many organized religions.

[gpw]

Sept 3, 2014 8:15:12 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Sept 3, 2014 4:06:37 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Or you can be hired and let go immediately at a Catholic school just for having a same-sex emergency contact - m.nydailynews.com/news/national/catholic-school-rescinds-gay-cafeteria-director-job-offer-article-1.1598465#bmb=1

Saying she was fired for how she got pregnant instead of being gay is just trying to get around discrimination laws, isn't it?

Wait, what? Isn't pregnancy discrimination illegal at the federal level and sexual orientation discrimination only illegal on a state-by-state basis? 

I need an employment lawyer to clarify, but I think pregnancy falls under ability/disability status in the ADA or else family status in non-discrimination laws.

Seems like she was fired not for being pregnant but by becoming pregnant through non traditional means (which, tbh, they can't really know, unless she told them.  Who's to say she didn't get things done the old fashioned way with a man)

[Deleted]

I'm assuming because sex outside of marriage isn't the old fashioned way by Catholic standards either.

But again, why do people work for these schools? Perhaps if the labor pool for these positions were thinner, religious schools would be forced to make concessions and stay the hell out of the personal lives of their staff. But as long as there are swaths of people to hire next, they have no impetus to change.

[gpw]

What's interesting, I think, is that the nun order (is that the right wording?!) they are associated with have said the school is private so they are hands off, and the Dioceses of Detroit has said the school is private and they are hands off.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2014 8:15:12 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Sept 3, 2014 4:06:37 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Or you can be hired and let go immediately at a Catholic school just for having a same-sex emergency contact - m.nydailynews.com/news/national/catholic-school-rescinds-gay-cafeteria-director-job-offer-article-1.1598465#bmb=1

Saying she was fired for how she got pregnant instead of being gay is just trying to get around discrimination laws, isn't it?

Wait, what? Isn't pregnancy discrimination illegal at the federal level and sexual orientation discrimination only illegal on a state-by-state basis? 

I need an employment lawyer to clarify, but I think pregnancy falls under ability/disability status in the ADA or else family status in non-discrimination laws.

I don't think pregnancy falls under the ADA, but I believe there is case coming up before SCOTUS that would clarify that. mominatrix  

Pregnancy discrimination is part of Title VII I believe. Again Momi will know more. 

[mbcdefg]

Sept 3, 2014 10:11:18 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I'm assuming because sex outside of marriage isn't the old fashioned way by Catholic standards either.

But again, why do people work for these schools? Perhaps if the labor pool for these positions were thinner, religious schools would be forced to make concessions and stay the hell out of the personal lives of their staff. But as long as there are swaths of people to hire next, they have no impetus to change.

I took a job at a Catholic high school because it paid more than what I was making at my previous job, plus the commute was a lot shorter. I was 24 at the time and my main concern was to make enough money to finally move out of my parents' house.

If I'd known what I was in for, though, I wouldn't have taken the job. VERY cliquey - I was in admin and everyone else my age was a teacher, but I always felt completely left out. Anything I put in the fridge and labeled was stolen - my mom's worked for Catholic schools her whole career and says that it happens to her all the time, too. Obviously that's just a personal anecdote but I never got a good vibe from the place. I wound up getting fired after a few months because the work was overwhelming for me, but a ton of people got canned when there was a change in administration so I probably wouldn't have lasted much longer there anyway because I wasn't part of the in-crowd.

The worst thing was when I asked a bunch of completely random students in the hallway to pose for a PR pic for the website. After I posted it online, my manager took me aside and told me that next time I needed to include more white kids in the photo (there was one in my pic - the others were Black, Hispanic, and Indian), "because older alumni won't donate if they see that the school has so many minorities nowadays." Ugh. I'm ashamed of myself for not just quitting at that point. That's also part of the reason why I don't go to Catholic Mass anymore.

I went to an all-girls Catholic high school (which recently closed down) in the same area and overall I was happy with my experience and with the way they regarded us as young women, but they definitely failed when it came to their stance on sexuality. A friend and I wanted to go to the prom but we didn't have (male) dates, so we decided to go as a pair of singles and split the cost of a ticket, which included two meals and two seats plus a formal photo. The school told us no, and that we'd have to each purchase our own ticket even though we'd each have a seat and a meal go to waste, because they didn't want us looking like a lesbian couple. Our mothers threw a huge stink and eventually the school caved, but they refused to let us take a formal photo together, even when we said we wouldn't be touching and even when we asked if we could include a few more girlfriends in it as a group pic. So stupid.

[Deleted]

My problem here is signing some kind of morality clause, code of conduct, or other conditions of employment on day one and then being shocked when you are eventually fired for violating them. There's something about that I just can't get past.

Now if you get fired for something not detailed there or that would be an unexpected interpretation of such conditions, sure. But otherwise, idk. Now this is separate from my feelings on whether or not these schools should have such conditions so there you go.

[mbcdefg]

Sept 3, 2014 10:44:44 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

My problem here is signing some kind of morality clause, code of conduct, or other conditions of employment on day one and then being shocked when you are eventually fired for violating them. There's something about that I just can't get past.

Now if you get fired for something not detailed there or that would be an unexpected interpretation of such conditions, sure. But otherwise, idk. Now this is separate from my feelings on whether or not these schools should have such conditions so there you go.

For all the stink I just threw about Catholic schools, I have to say that every one I've had experience with has clearly outlined their morality clauses/etc. in their handbooks. It's certainly not very Christian of them to do this to her, but I'm sure it wasn't a surprise.

I also wouldn't doubt that they just had a personal problem with her and used the pregnancy/gay aspect of her life as an excuse to get rid of her.