I'm surprised at how low those income ranges are for my county (approximately $30,000-$60,000). I was expecting the top range to be much higher. That said, I feel middle class even if our income is significantly higher than the ranges listed.
Wow, middle class in my county is $36k-$55k. Our HHI is about $130k but there are super super rich and very very poor areas within the county and even the major city so it's difficult to think we're so much more than "middle class." I consider us middle class. Are these numbers from the census?
Notes: Figures are from the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2010-2012 American Community Survey in 2013 dollars. They reflect the household income of the middle fifth of residents in each county. Counties with populations greater than 20,000 are included.
the middle fifth huh? So they are only calling 20% of households "middle class". seems far too narrow to me.
Notes: Figures are from the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2010-2012 American Community Survey in 2013 dollars. They reflect the household income of the middle fifth of residents in each county. Counties with populations greater than 20,000 are included.
the middle fifth huh? So they are only calling 20% of households "middle class". seems far too narrow to me.
Agreed. Does that make the bottom 40% lower class and the top 40% upper class?
Yes, I actually am middle class. My single income just scratches the bottom of the range in my county. Add in my bf's income and we are still somewhere in the middle. That feels about accurate. We live modestly but get to do most of the things we want to (within reason). I think that's kind of definition of middle class.
Of course things would be very tight if kids were involved.
Nope, we're well above the middle class cutoff (although it doesn't feel that way.) I looked up my rural hometown to see where my parents fell. My dad's a HS teacher and my mom doesn't work--they still fell above middle class there. Weird.
the middle fifth huh? So they are only calling 20% of households "middle class". seems far too narrow to me.
Agreed. Does that make the bottom 40% lower class and the top 40% upper class?
Presumably those would be "lower middle" and "upper middle."
I wouldn't object to including the second and fourth quintiles in the definition of middle class, but it looks like the point of this is to hone in on the exact middle.
Whenever someone in the top 2-3% says they don't consider themselves wealthy because they're not in the top 1%, it just makes me think they've spent too much time with people who are exactly like them and have no idea how the bottom 95% actually lives.
If you earn upwards of $300k a year and try to claim with faux modesty that you're middle class and understand what it's like to be middle class because you don't have a private jet or a hospital wing named after your grandfather, you don't sound humble. You just sound tone deaf.
Post by simpsongal on Sept 15, 2014 9:33:05 GMT -5
Nope - I know we're not. Doesn't mean things are not tight b/c we meet a lot of savings and debt goals. It just means a lot of other people can't meet those goals.
Middle class in our county is between $88K-133K, which is actually higher than I expected (for an average).
ETA: Middle class in my areas is the above the upper end of middle class where I grew up. Also noteworthy, we would be middle class if either of us quit our jobs. We would put less in savings but our expenses would be less too. It would be tight but we could do it. But I'm guessing the relatively high average in our areas is skewed by a large number of professionals and dual income homes.
Whenever someone in the top 2-3% says they don't consider themselves wealthy because they're not in the top 1%, it just makes me think they've spent too much time with people who are exactly like them and have no idea how the bottom 95% actually lives.
If you earn upwards of $300k a year and try to claim with faux modesty that you're middle class and understand what it's like to be middle class because you don't have a private jet or a hospital wing named after your grandfather, you don't sound humble. You just sound tone deaf.
Way to put words in my mouth. Where did I say I wasn't wealthy? Upper class has very particular meaning, and most Americans -- including most wealthy Americans -- fall on the vast, vast spectrum that is the American middle class.
Unless we're counting the middle class as only the median 20% of any particular county, which would be stupid.
Whenever someone in the top 2-3% says they don't consider themselves wealthy because they're not in the top 1%, it just makes me think they've spent too much time with people who are exactly like them and have no idea how the bottom 95% actually lives.
If you earn upwards of $300k a year and try to claim with faux modesty that you're middle class and understand what it's like to be middle class because you don't have a private jet or a hospital wing named after your grandfather, you don't sound humble. You just sound tone deaf.
Way to put words in my mouth. Where did I say I wasn't wealthy? Upper class has very particular meaning, and most Americans -- including most wealthy Americans -- fall on the vast, vast spectrum that is the American middle class.
Unless we're counting the middle class as only the median 20% of any particular county, which would be stupid.
Whenever someone in the top 2-3% says they don't consider themselves wealthy because they're not in the top 1%, it just makes me think they've spent too much time with people who are exactly like them and have no idea how the bottom 95% actually lives.
If you earn upwards of $300k a year and try to claim with faux modesty that you're middle class and understand what it's like to be middle class because you don't have a private jet or a hospital wing named after your grandfather, you don't sound humble. You just sound tone deaf.
Way to put words in my mouth. Where did I say I wasn't wealthy? Upper class has very particular meaning, and most Americans -- including most wealthy Americans -- fall on the vast, vast spectrum that is the American middle class.
Unless we're counting the middle class as only the median 20% of any particular county, which would be stupid.
Except this isn't the United Kingdom or India where "class" is something that has to do with breeding. In the U.S. uniquely, we often conflate class and income because we value the self-made man and wanted to create a classless society. Trying to say you're not "upper class" in the British sense of the word is just a pointless discussion.
Agreed. Does that make the bottom 40% lower class and the top 40% upper class?
Presumably those would be "lower middle" and "upper middle."
I wouldn't object to including the second and fourth quintiles in the definition of middle class, but it looks like the point of this is to hone in on the exact middle.
I would actually be really interested to see the same idea done with the second, third, and fourth quintiles making up the entirety of the middle class population. I think it would provide a more accurate representation. FWIW, our HHI was just above our county's middle income range and I definitely feel upper middle class, which is where I believe we would be placed in the more inclusive version.
Post by CrazyLucky on Sept 15, 2014 10:05:06 GMT -5
Is this by household income? Because if so, what the hell are we doing with all our extra money? We should be taking grand vacations every year, have college fully funded and I should be driving my dream Porsche! (pixy0stix, please don't post reasons why I should hate Porsche. Let me keep my dream!)
Way to put words in my mouth. Â Where did I say I wasn't wealthy? Â Upper class has very particular meaning, and most Americans -- including most wealthy Americans -- fall on the vast, vast spectrum that is the American middle class.
Unless we're counting the middle class as only the median 20% of any particular county, which would be stupid.
Except this isn't the United Kingdom or India where "class" is something that has to do with breeding. In the U.S. uniquely, we often conflate class and income because we value the self-made man and wanted to create a classless society. Trying to say you're not "upper class" in the British sense of the word is just a pointless discussion.
You really don't think class in America has anything to do with breeding? I have not found that to be the case at all. There are private clubs, private schools, and various elite social institutions all over the US that suggest that who your family is still matters a heck of a lot when it comes to inclusion in certain upper class circles. I agree that a classless society may be what America as a whole aspires to, but that is not what we have.
Except this isn't the United Kingdom or India where "class" is something that has to do with breeding. In the U.S. uniquely, we often conflate class and income because we value the self-made man and wanted to create a classless society. Trying to say you're not "upper class" in the British sense of the word is just a pointless discussion.
You really don't think class in America has anything to do with breeding? I have not found that to be the case at all. There are private clubs, private schools, and various elite social institutions all over the US that suggest that who your family is still matters a heck of a lot when it comes to inclusion in certain upper class circles. I agree that a classless society may be what America as a whole aspires to, but that is not what we have.
But you can buy your way into those things. It's not like if you're born to a poor or middle class family but manage to become a successful surgeon who makes $600k per year that you're forever middle class.
If you're in the top 2% of earners and have a SoHo loft whose rent cost more than the majority of Americans' annual income, you're not middle class just because your parents aren't Vanderbilts.
Notes: Figures are from the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2010-2012 American Community Survey in 2013 dollars. They reflect the household income of the middle fifth of residents in each county. Counties with populations greater than 20,000 are included.
the middle fifth huh? So they are only calling 20% of households "middle class". seems far too narrow to me.
I was thinking the same thing. I would define it more as 25%-75%.
Oh goodie, nothing like this debate on a Monday morning.
I knew before I even opened this that it would have a bunch of responses from people saying that despite what the calculator says, they have all these bills, can't afford to live in the wealthy part of the city, don't feel above middle class, so therefore they must still be middle class.
This is really interesting. Last year we just (barely) made it above the high end of the range, for the first time since I stopped working full time.
I am actually very surprised, considering we live in a very wealthy area, and our primary income is a blue-collar job. I definitely feel less-wealthy than our friends, but that's probably a factor of our specific band of the county in which we live. The northern and southern corners have much lower incomes that than the central band where we live.
I definitely feel "middle class," and for both of us our current lifestyle is significantly beyond the means we grew up with.
Except this isn't the United Kingdom or India where "class" is something that has to do with breeding. In the U.S. uniquely, we often conflate class and income because we value the self-made man and wanted to create a classless society. Trying to say you're not "upper class" in the British sense of the word is just a pointless discussion.
You really don't think class in America has anything to do with breeding? I have not found that to be the case at all. There are private clubs, private schools, and various elite social institutions all over the US that suggest that who your family is still matters a heck of a lot when it comes to inclusion in certain upper class circles. I agree that a classless society may be what America as a whole aspires to, but that is not what we have.
It does and it doesn't. Classes are a bit more fluid here than in other countries. Money is still what opens doors (with a few exceptions, perhaps -- like being a Kennedy or Rockefeller.)
Would you try to argue that Larry Page isn't upper class because his grandfather was a pipe fitter? If there's a formula in the U.S., I would say it's money + higher education + social connections. Your family only matters insomuch as it provides access to those things.
You really don't think class in America has anything to do with breeding? I have not found that to be the case at all. There are private clubs, private schools, and various elite social institutions all over the US that suggest that who your family is still matters a heck of a lot when it comes to inclusion in certain upper class circles. I agree that a classless society may be what America as a whole aspires to, but that is not what we have.
But you can buy your way into those things. It's not like if you're born to a poor or middle class family but manage to become a successful surgeon who makes $600k per year that you're forever middle class.
If you're in the top 2% of earners and have a SoHo loft whose rent cost more than the majority of Americans' annual income, you're not middle class just because your parents aren't Vanderbilts.
There are many, many private clubs & circles that you cannot buy your way into, no matter how much money you have. Or you can buy your way in, but in order to do that, you have to act a certain way, have made the right friends, and attended the right type of schools to prove yourself.
Regardless, this is always such an interesting discussion. How many classes are there in this country? Is it just working class - middle class - upper class? Or more? I would suggest that there are many striations within the upper class, just as there are divisions within the middle class.
After I save for retirement, pay my HCOL rent, SLs, and other bills, and take like, just one memorable vacation a year, I have, like, barely any money left over for my regular Michelin star dining outings.