Imagine a job where about half of all the work is being done by people who are in training. That's, in fact, what happens in the world of biological and medical research.
In the United States, more than 40,000 temporary employees known as postdoctoral research fellows are doing science at a bargain price. And most postdocs are being trained for jobs that don't actually exist.
Tom Murphy, 56, in his home in Gainesville, Va., was diagnosed with ALS four years ago. An experimental drug seems to have slowed the progression of his disease, he says, though most ALS patients aren't as lucky.
The funding squeeze presents an enormous challenge for young scientists like Vanessa Hubbard-Lucey, who is trying to make a career in biomedical research.
Hubbard-Lucey is 35 years old. After earning her Ph.D. a few years ago, she first worked as a research-technician in a cancer lab, then accepted a postdoc position at New York University's Langone Medical Center on Manhattan's East Side, working for a professor who is trying to understand the causes of inflammatory bowel disease.
"By definition, a postdoc is temporary, mentored training where you are supposed to acquire professional [experience] in order to pursue a career of your own choosing," Hubbard-Lucey says, "the key word being temporary."
But increasingly these low-paying temporary jobs can stretch on for years. "Many people go on to do many postdocs," she says.
That's because if you want a career in academia, it's almost essential as a postdoc to make a splashy discovery and get the findings published in a top scientific journal. Hubbard-Lucey is working on an experiment that she hopes will be her ticket to a professorship — or at least to an interview for an academic job.
Whether she succeeds or not, she's part of a shadow workforce made up of highly qualified scientists who work long hours for comparatively little pay, considering their level of education: about $40,000 a year.
American science couldn't survive without this shadow labor force of some 40,000 postdocs. But only about 15 percent will get tenure-track jobs, heading a lab like the one where Hubbard-Lucey works today. This was not at all what she expected when she started down this path a decade ago.
"I remember [an adviser] saying, 'You know, funding is kind of tough now, but things are going to be better when you finish graduate school,' " Hubbard-Lucey recalls. She says her adviser assured her that the situation would improve, "so I said OK."
In fact the situation hasn't gotten better. It's worse. Support for biomedical research has declined by more than 20 percent in real dollars over the past decade. And even in good times, postdocs had a raw deal.
The entire system is built around the false idea that all these scientists-in-training are headed to university professorships.
"That's obviously unsustainable," says Keith Micoli, who heads the postdoc program at the NYU Medical Center. "You can't have one manager training 10 subordinates who think they are all going to take over that boss' position someday. That's mathematically impossible."
"But we've grown so dependent on this relatively cheap, seemingly inexhaustible supply of young scientists who do great work," Micoli says. "From the standpoint of dollars and cents, they're a great investment."
Even the lucky few who do land academic jobs find it increasingly difficult to get federal funding to run a lab. There's simply not enough money to go around, given the number of scientists working in academia today.
"Why go into an academic career when you know you've little chance of success?" Micoli muses. "Funding gets tighter and tighter. It's diminishing returns."
This is very much on the minds of today's postdocs.
Immunologist Victoria Ruiz grew up in modest circumstances in Brooklyn. She says her dad struggled with health issues for many years, "and I saw how troubling it can be, being a patient and being a patient's family. And I wanted to do something to help."
But after getting a Ph.D. at Brown University, and now working in a top lab, she knows she may not end up working to cure diseases.
"What would I do instead? I would love to work with inner city youth and show them different careers that are available to them," Ruiz says. "I came from a poorer community, so I would love to go back and give back to the community."
But she may not advise them to pursue careers in biomedical research.
Kishore Kuchibhotla still holds out that hope. He's a neuroscientist who landed a lucrative consulting gig after earning his Ph.D. from Harvard. But the job didn't inspire him. So he says he took an 80 percent pay cut to come back to the world of academic research as a postdoc.
Randen Patterson left a research career in physiology at U.C. Davis when funding got too tight. He now owns a grocery store in Guinda, Calif.
"We will see if it's a foolhardy decision after a few more years," he says. But passion trumps everything for now.
"I'm very excited about really understanding how brains work, how brain circuits work, both in health and in disease," he says. "Is there a way we can slowly figure that out and unpack that so we can get a better handle on what's up in our skull? ... It's really one of the most fascinating organs to me."
But Kuchibhotla knows the system's stacked against him.
"I sometimes like to think of it like medical residents," he says. "Medical residents do need a few years of training before they can become attending [physicians]. The difference is there's not always a job on the other end" for the postdoctoral researchers.
There actually are jobs – in industry, consulting, government and other fields. Biomedical postdocs rarely end up unemployed. But many can't pursue their academic dreams, and they are often in their late 30s or even older before they realize that.
And despite those long odds, Vannessa Hubbard-Lucey was also holding out hope on the rainy spring day when we first talked.
"You have a Ph.D.," Hubbard-Lucey she told me. "It's supposed to be the highest degree you can get, so you feel like, well I've worked this hard, I've done so much, when am I going to get something good out of this?
"I'm sort of at the point where I'm hopeful that my paper's going to go in and it's going to get published," she says, "and at least I'll have something to show for it."
A published paper, then maybe an interview in academia, she was hoping, and at the end of that rainbow, a job running her own research lab from the honcho's office, not the lab bench.
"The boss occasionally comes out and wants to know what's going on, but he's mostly holed up in his office trying to write grants," she says. That may not sound glamorous, but "I would love to actually be telling other postdocs what to do. That would be the best part!"
The worst part: The boss spends a huge amount of time in his office writing grants because money is so tight these days even many top-flight ideas don't make the cut. Nearly 90 percent of grant proposals get rejected.
"Rejection's a little hard," she admits. "You have to get used to rejection."
That first conversation took place in May. Later in the summer, while Hubbard-Lucey was still working on her scientific paper, she heard about a job where she could make good use of her Ph.D. She wouldn't be running a lab or working in academia. But she would be advancing cancer research at a nonprofit institute. She got the job. And now, she says, she's happy with the new path she's chosen.
Post by cjeanette on Sept 16, 2014 15:38:37 GMT -5
This is exactly why my H has decided not to go for his PhD. He will end up making the same as he does now with his B.S. at his current University. So why go through all of the stress?
Yea, my husband is still doing a postdoc. This is his second one. He actually doesn't want to be a professor but wants to stay in research so hopefully he will get a research scientist job soon. He writes at least 4-5 grants a year himself and provides input on another 4-5. They cut the funding for his particular science in half about 3-4 years ago. We are really lucky that we don't need his income and he can continue to pursue what he loves to do (as long as he can get grants funded).
He went to a top univeristy (top 3 in the US) and of the 30 or so other grad students that he started with only one actually has a tenure track position.
Post by timorousbeastie on Sept 16, 2014 16:14:52 GMT -5
This is exactly why, after 4 years as a postdoc, I quit to become a SAHM when my DD was born. I hope to go back to work some day and make use of my degree, but I doubt severely that it will be in academia.
Post by penguingrrl on Sept 16, 2014 16:17:44 GMT -5
My mom sent DH and me this article this morning. It's depressing and brings up a lot of our anxieties as DH heats up his job search. One thing it didn't address is the increasingly common "Visiting Professor" after you finish postdoc, which is what H is now. He's paid reasonably well (although less than a tenure track prof at his school would be), but not tenure track and we have no idea what will happen yet when his term ends at the end of June.
I've been saying the S part of STEM is not under-represented in the US.
I think part of the problem is people are over educated but not in the areas that industry needs. And industry has gotten cheap and doesn't want to train anyone. It's sort of a horrific game of chicken
My husband and I met while getting our PhDs - I published two tier 1 papers in grad school and I think could have gotten a pretty sweet gig in industry if I'd gone in to it then (2003). Instead I did a postdoc, had great funding from a prestigious foundation... and just burned out. The entire state of funding for research started rapidly declining and I bailed after my postoc. I now do translational work at the intersection of science and research administration. It's a good fit and I get HOUNDED to speak with current burnt out postdocs looking to make the jump.
DH stuck it out and during his postdoc published a few papers, networked like crazy and got a job (got tenure last year at a major university). But it's HARD, and he's ridiculously lucky. The best advice I have for people who really want their own labs is to go to the best universities and work for the most prestigious faculty. So much is about networking - even publishing is. I don't know - the whole system just needs an overhaul. It's disingenuous to train so many people as scientists who will never work inside a lab. I am one of them. It's not to say that the skills are not translatable. But if the goal is to populate myriad fields with scientists, then part and parcel with training for lab careers should be training for careers outside of the lab.
Looking at the market now, I have a more realistic stance when talking with the PhD students in my lab about going on the job market. I was lucky to get a post-doc and a faculty position after grad school. However, I don't know WHAT I would do in this hiring environment. Also, grant-writing is the pits. It's like I'm on a hamster wheel. As soon as I get one, I'm thinking about the next. I've definitely toyed with the idea of working in the private sector....more pay and likely better hours/lifestyle.
Post by thecatinthehat on Sept 17, 2014 5:03:44 GMT -5
I currently am a SAHM, DS was born as I was months into finishing my dissertation. I defended and then moved when DH got his job. I published a decent amount and I am currently working on getting my last chapter submitted for publication in a few weeks. I am not sure if I will ever work in my field (very specific, obviously). I think my boss is a little disappointed at the current path I took after I worked so fucking hard to get to where I am. I keep telling her I am looking for jobs here, but the sad truth is, there aren't any where we are now. Plus I have gotten so jaded towards the end that I was just fuck this I'm out of here!
A friend of mine did not get a fellowship he applied, I am not even sure what he will do since his boss has no more funding for him to continue a 3rd yr of postdoc. Another friend postdoc for 7 yrs before getting an industry job. I have only known very few who eventually got a faculty job somewhere. The sad part is that there are still people postdoc-ing since well before the year I started my PhD. I look at them and I am all..nope not going to do that. Not working all day everyday and never seeing my family. Nope! My PhD is/was the biggest life/career mistake I ever made. Ugh all those years I could have been doing something else. Instead I was in the lab nearly everyday for 6 fucking years!
Also, how many science PhDs stay in the states? My friend's husband was the only American citizen in his program (at a major university).
In our experience there aren't a ton of jobs outside academia. In theory there should be for DH (he's a Chemical Engineer) but in reality employers aren't interested in someone who has been in academia for so long with little industry experience (he worked in industry for 3 years between college and grad school). Interestingly what we've seen is employers closing job listings unfilled claiming there aren't qualified applicants but turning down people with PhDs due to lack of experience.
MH was extremely lucky to get a full-time position at the same institution where he was hired for his post-doc.
Most of his fellow peers went into industry, because jobs in academia are so difficult to find. MH just started a non-tenure track position with this university, and we have been here for four years (he was post-doc for two of those, then a staff scientist, and finally is considered a professor). One of these days, his position may actually pay enough for the loans that we took out to get him that PhD.
In our experience there aren't a ton of jobs outside academia. In theory there should be for DH (he's a Chemical Engineer) but in reality employers aren't interested in someone who has been in academia for so long with little industry experience (he worked in industry for 3 years between college and grad school). Interestingly what we've seen is employers closing job listings unfilled claiming there aren't qualified applicants but turning down people with PhDs due to lack of experience.
We had this experience, as well.
MH didn't actually start getting interviews until after he had his PhD in hand, which made for a crazy few months. He applied for jobs for a full year before he defended, and didn't hear positive feedback from any of them until after he had graduated.
In our experience there aren't a ton of jobs outside academia. In theory there should be for DH (he's a Chemical Engineer) but in reality employers aren't interested in someone who has been in academia for so long with little industry experience (he worked in industry for 3 years between college and grad school). Interestingly what we've seen is employers closing job listings unfilled claiming there aren't qualified applicants but turning down people with PhDs due to lack of experience.
We had this experience, as well.
MH didn't actually start getting interviews until after he had his PhD in hand, which made for a crazy few months. He applied for jobs for a full year before he defended, and didn't hear positive feedback from any of them until after he had graduated.
We had a similar experience. He basically jumped at the first postdoc offer he got because he's our sole source of income so we couldn't risk even a month of unemployment when he graduated (by that point our savings was gone). He's now on the market again for the third time since he's a visiting prof and it sucks having our lives in limbo wondering what he'll get.