Article: Why do people hit their kids?

[Deleted]

theconcourse.deadspin.com/why-do-people-hit-their-kids-1634802919

by Drew Magary

There's an old episode of What's Happening!! where Roger fucks up, and his mom decides to beat his ass (this is actually the plot of every episode of What's Happening!!). So his mom asks Rerun for his belt, only Rerun is 300-plus pounds, so when he takes out his belt, it's like eight feet long. And Roger's mom guffaws and cries out, "Oh, Rerun! I wanna whip him, not hang him!" And the whole studio audience goes crazy with laughter.

It's a weird thing, to wanna beat your kid. Kids are small and helpless, and are your own flesh and blood. You'd think the LAST person on earth to hit a child would be that child's own parent, and yet here we are. Beating kids is so common that it's practically a comedic mainstay at this point, from Eddie Murphy's mom throwing a shoe at him to Bill Cosby talking about his dad's fearsome belt. There was a recent episode of Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown set in L.A.'s Koreatown, and all these Korean chefs were laughing about how their parents used to punish them by putting them in stress positions for hours on end: standing and holding books until their arms gave out, etc. Torture, essentially. The chefs were all giggling at the memories, like veterans telling war stories. The beatings were a shared heritage among them.

There is an imaginary line between corporal punishment and abuse, and the story of Adrian Peterson beating the shit out of his kid with a tree branch demonstrates the insane variance with where Americans see that line. Some people applauded Peterson for this …

… while others, of course, think he belongs in a jail cell. Peterson said his dad used to beat him with an electrical cord, so he considered his own parenting methods to be HUMANE by comparison, which is insane. But that's what happens in a culture of beating. Beating is a tradition that parents hand down to children, who then hand it down (with great force) to their own children, until an entire family tree of abuse has sprung forth. Given the way abuse can spread, it's a wonder any child makes it out of childhood unscathed. And since it's so common, people will twist their minds around pretty much any excuse to justify this cycle. My parents beat me, and I turned out fine!, etc. The idea of abuse gets buried under comedic euphemisms like "whoopin'." HAHA HIS DAD GAVE HIM A WHOOPIN'. Hilarious.

Now, this is the part where I point out that study after study after study has proven that corporal punishment—even a light spanking—does not work. At all. Corporal punishment makes kids sullen, violent, and angry. I know this because I have dabbled in corporal punishment with my own children, particularly my oldest kid. (Poor first children are always the beta kids: The kids parents fuck up with the most before applying better techniques to their younger siblings.) I have tried spanking the kid, and giving the kid a light smack on the head, and threatening the kid. My dad spanked me once or twice as a child. That's it. I don't even remember it, really. And yet I've probably tried more ways of physically correcting my child than he ever did. And the reason I tried all of these methods is because I am a failure.

That's what corporal punishment is. It's a failure. It's a complete breakdown of communication between parent and child. Children are unpredictable, reckless, and occasionally violent. They can drive otherwise rational humans into fits of rage. And I have had moments—many moments, certainly—where I have felt that rage after exhausting every last possible idea to get them to behave: bribery, timeouts, the silent treatment, walking away (they follow you!), distraction, throwing the kids outside (they end up ringing the doorbell a lot), you name it. So I have tried corporal punishment as a final resort, a desperate last stab at closure. That's an easy way for parents to justify it: You forced me to do this, child. Spanking the kid did nothing for me. It only made me realize what a fucking failure I was. Oh, and the kid still kept yelling.

Spanking and beating your kid teaches your kid to talk with violence. It validates hitting as a legitimate form of communication. Everything is modeled. I have yelled at my kids, and then seen them yell. I have smacked my kid, and then watched her smack someone else. They don't learn to be good from any of it. They don't learn to sit still and practice piano sonatas. All they learn is, Hey, this works! And then they go practice what you just preached. Beating a kid creates an atmosphere of toxicity in a house that lingers forever: One beating leads to the next, and to the next, and to the next, until parents don't even know why they're beating the kid anymore. They just do. Once it is normalized, it takes root. Parents begin to like the habit. Those pictures of Peterson's kid? The violence can get worse ... much worse ... so much worse it's astonishing.

It takes an endless amount of patience to handle a demanding child, and lots of people don't have that patience. We also happen to live in an age of instant gratification, so the idea of spending 10 full minutes getting a child to calm down is agony. People are hurried, stressed, and selfish. If they try beating a kid and it "works," they'll go right to that well the second the kid acts up. Beating a kid is fast and easy, which is what makes it so terrifying. And no parent ever thinks of him- or herself as a child abuser, no matter how bad the abuse gets. There's also a strange political bent to all this ... a "Don't tell me how to raise my kids!" attitude, whereby people demand the freedom to punish their kids however they like, but their kids are not allowed any freedom FROM that discipline.

You need tolerance, intelligence, and love to make it work. Sometimes, I am able to pull this off. Sometimes, I talk the kid down, and then I go to my wife and I'm like DUDE THEY CALMED DOWN AND I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO YELL GIMME A COOKIE. And sometimes, I fail miserably and start yelling like a crazy person, only to realize what a shitty job I'm doing. I am getting better (I haven't tried spanking a kid in years), but I still have a lot of work to do. I cannot yell. I cannot hit. No parent ever should. No parent or child will ever get anything productive from it. You are not a hippy-dippy asshole when you avoid spanking. That's a cultural stigma that only justifies further abuse, and it's a cheap way of getting out of the legwork necessary to be a better parent: reading books, going to parenting classes, etc. People think they've tried everything when they really haven't.

If it takes sending Adrian Peterson to jail to explain "don't hit your kids" concept to all the junior Bob Knights out there, so be it. Go ahead and look at those pictures again and tell me what good will come from it. Because I don't see it. I don't see how 10 lashings do the trick instead of just one. I don't see how that lesson won't be taught to that child again and again and again, until it isn't a lesson at all. And I don't see how Peterson's grandkids avoid a similar fate.

[Deleted]

"You are not a hippy-dippy asshole when you avoid spanking."

I love you, lady.

[Deleted]

I hesitated to post this because I don't want to start drama on a touchy subject, but I love Drew Magary and I think he presents his point well, with humor and without preaching or shaming.

I think the part of this article that rings truest to me is: "It takes an endless amount of patience to handle a demanding child, and lots of people don't have that patience. We also happen to live in an age of instant gratification, so the idea of spending 10 full minutes getting a child to calm down is agony." This is so the story of my life some days... usually between the hours of preschool pick-up and H getting home for the evening. I totally want a quick behavior fixer during these hours. Spanking is off the table for us and I do not consider it, but I think it's true that when you are used to instant gratification, you have moments where you just want the bad behavior to STOP THIS INSTANT without regard to how you accomplish that goal. It feels horrible to reach the end of your rope in that way.

[stealthmom]

Um, I think I just got a lady boner.

Violence begets violence

Or as my 5 yo says: violins.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2014 15:49:27 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I think about spanking Joanna at least once a day. Just a quick swat. It takes A LOT of self-restraint sometimes. I don't really need to read an article to find out why people do it. lol

I was side eying this article until I got to the middle. Really, you don't know why some people hit their kids?! Try having one follow you around the house shrieking, kick the walls, deliberately knock breakable stuff over, and SPIT on you all in an effort to push your buttons and get a reaction from you and THEN tell me whether or not you get it.

But I see she's been there. FTR we don't spank or hit our kids but I certainly understand the urge that rises up during a monster 3 yo or 4 yo temper tantrum. That's actually why we have that rule. Because I have felt that kind of anger before.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2014 16:46:58 GMT -5 @lcap said:

Sept 16, 2014 15:49:27 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I think about spanking Joanna at least once a day. Just a quick swat. It takes A LOT of self-restraint sometimes. I don't really need to read an article to find out why people do it. lol

I was side eying this article until I got to the middle. Really, you don't know why some people hit their kids?! Try having one follow you around the house shrieking, kick the walls, deliberately knock breakable stuff over, and SPIT on you all in an effort to push your buttons and get a reaction from you and THEN tell me whether or not you get it.

But I see she's been there. FTR we don't spank or hit our kids but I certainly understand the urge that rises up during a monster 3 yo or 4 yo temper tantrum. That's actually why we have that rule. Because I have felt that kind of anger before.

The author of this article, Drew Magary, is really great. He has a book called Someone Could Get Hurt: A Memoir of 21st Century Parenting that is outstanding. He is totally real, totally funny, and he totally gets it.

I don't spank either, but believe me, I can see how a parent can get to that point.

[scribellesam]

This reminds me of a conversation my H had with his sister this summer. She's definitely of the pro-spanking school of parenting. She was giving him a hard time about how "easy" we are on DS in terms of discipline, and told him that in order to be a good parent, your kids need to be afraid of you. It made me so sad to hear someone say this as a parenting goal.

[bunch]

Sept 16, 2014 16:46:58 GMT -5 @lcap said:

Sept 16, 2014 15:49:27 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I think about spanking Joanna at least once a day. Just a quick swat. It takes A LOT of self-restraint sometimes. I don't really need to read an article to find out why people do it. lol

I was side eying this article until I got to the middle. Really, you don't know why some people hit their kids?! Try having one follow you around the house shrieking, kick the walls, deliberately knock breakable stuff over, and SPIT on you all in an effort to push your buttons and get a reaction from you and THEN tell me whether or not you get it.

But I see she's been there. FTR we don't spank or hit our kids but I certainly understand the urge that rises up during a monster 3 yo or 4 yo temper tantrum. That's actually why we have that rule. Because I have felt that kind of anger before.

I have previously shaken with anger and had to sit on my hands to avoid hitting dd1.  That's the truth, ugly or not.   I have aggressively removed her from shit beating her sister, for my own anger release, which I realize is ridiculous since I'm trying to teach her not to be rough with her sister.    It's SO hard.  I'm not into spanking, but I'm not a religious about no punishment, so it came as a very welcome confession from a close friend and 110% positive parenting believer that she was battling the same demons.   Kids.  They can break you. 

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2014 17:40:02 GMT -5 @this said:

This was fantastic. Really well written. Thanks for sharing.

ETA I almost said I don't see how this is controversial, but then I remembered this is another MMM vs IRL thing. IRL FB friends share memes about "back in my day..." referencing hitting/spanking all the time. I think they could benefit from reading this (vs a board that I'd bet 99.99% of already agrees), but I hate sharing parenting stuff on FB.

I agree, but look, after PBJGate, I am no longer assuming any topic is safe from controversy on this board.

[Marmee]

Ok..,I agree in principle but riddle me this. My good friend is extremely gentle, soft spoken & she doesn't so much as raise her voice to her kids. She does all the parenting so Dad is a non-issue. Why does this woman have the biggest, bullying, bossy brat of a little girl I've ever seen? That kid is the only kid I've ever told my child (who was older than her child) to just stay away from because she was being abused by her.

[stealthmom]

Sept 16, 2014 18:06:39 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Ok..,I agree in principle but riddle me this. My good friend is extremely gentle, soft spoken & she doesn't so much as raise her voice to her kids. Gtg She does all the parenting so Dad is a non-issue. Why does this woman have the biggest, bullying, bossy brat of a little girl I've ever seen? That kid is the only kid I've ever told my child (who was older than her child) to just stay away from because she was being abused by her.

seriously?

You don't see a distinction between discpline w/o violence and no discpline or ineffective discpline?

[redheadk]

Sept 16, 2014 17:40:02 GMT -5 @this said:

This was fantastic. Really well written. Thanks for sharing.

ETA I almost said I don't see how this is controversial, but then I remembered this is another MMM vs IRL thing. IRL FB friends share memes about "back in my day..." referencing hitting/spanking all the time. I think they could benefit from reading this (vs a board that I'd bet 99.99% of already agrees), but I hate sharing parenting stuff on FB.

Sadly, I think the majority of people who post that crap don't want to hear the other side and won't listen. They are so caught up in their way being the right way that they won't consider that perhaps it's not. 

[imojoebunny]

What Adrian Peterson did is not what I consider spanking, based on the pictures I have seen of his child's injuries.

I support people having the option of spanking their kids. I think it was (some 95% of kids my age now were spanked) and is an effective form of discipline, but spanking and beating are not the same thing.

[undecidedowl]

I wish more people IRL could read and understand this.

When I was pregnant we had some friends over with their 3 year old. The dad and boy were wrestling around and the boy got too wild and bit the dad. The dad yelled and spanked him in return. The little boy was so upset that he ran to his mom and cried "daddy hit me" over and over until the mom made the dad apologize. It all seemed so sad and backwards to me and I decided that day that I would try my very best to never spank my children.

[Marmee]

Sept 16, 2014 18:13:10 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

Sept 16, 2014 18:06:39 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Ok..,I agree in principle but riddle me this. My good friend is extremely gentle, soft spoken & she doesn't so much as raise her voice to her kids. Gtg She does all the parenting so Dad is a non-issue. Why does this woman have the biggest, bullying, bossy brat of a little girl I've ever seen? That kid is the only kid I've ever told my child (who was older than her child) to just stay away from because she was being abused by her.

seriously?

You don't see a distinction between discpline w/o violence and no discpline or ineffective discpline?

I'm sure my friend does not see her child as others (I'm not the only one by a long shot) do.

But mainly I disagree with this statement:

"Everything is modeled. I have yelled at my kids, and then seen them yell. I have smacked my kid, and then watched her smack someone else. "

I've seen plenty if kids who hit, yell, spit, etc that did not get this behavior via modeling (at least I hope not). I guess her point is that it doesn't help & mine is that not spanking doesn't guarantee your kid will be non-violent.

[stealthmom]

Sept 16, 2014 18:18:25 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

What Adrian Peterson did is not what I consider spanking, based on the pictures I have seen of his child's injuries.

I support people having the option of spanking their kids. I think it was (some 95% of kids my age now were spanked) and is an effective form of discipline, but spanking and beating are not the same thing.

but that's part of the problem. He does (as do many other s) so when you say what you said above people think what they're doing is ok.

And no. It is not an effective form of discpline. No study in the history of studies has ever shown that.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2014 18:00:15 GMT -5 bunch said:

Sept 16, 2014 16:46:58 GMT -5 @lcap said:

I was side eying this article until I got to the middle. Really, you don't know why some people hit their kids?! Try having one follow you around the house shrieking, kick the walls, deliberately knock breakable stuff over, and SPIT on you all in an effort to push your buttons and get a reaction from you and THEN tell me whether or not you get it.

But I see she's been there. FTR we don't spank or hit our kids but I certainly understand the urge that rises up during a monster 3 yo or 4 yo temper tantrum. That's actually why we have that rule. Because I have felt that kind of anger before.

I have previously shaken with anger and had to sit on my hands to avoid hitting dd1.  That's the truth, ugly or not.   I have aggressively removed her from shit beating her sister, for my own anger release, which I realize is ridiculous since I'm trying to teach her not to be rough with her sister.    It's SO hard.  I'm not into spanking, but I'm not a religious about no punishment, so it came as a very welcome confession from a close friend and 110% positive parenting believer that she was battling the same demons.   Kids.  They can break you. 

It really is so hard. I've been through the rigors with DS1 believe me, lol. We'd get into these really destructive cycles where he'd get mad at me for whatever reason and then try to punish me by pushing my buttons to get a reaction. And then when he got one (yelling, threatening to take something away, trying to put him in his room and make him stay there, etc.) he'd keep escalating and escalating until he flipped the situation around so that I felt the need to comfort him and calm him down. When I finally figured out that ignoring him was the best approach, I just started getting the vacuum out when he'd get into that mood. The noise drowned him out and the exercise calmed me down, lol. Eventually the rage would leave him and I could start trying to talk to him and reason with him. It took many months of trial and error to get there though.

[stealthmom]

Sept 16, 2014 18:22:37 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Sept 16, 2014 18:13:10 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

seriously?

You don't see a distinction between discpline w/o violence and no discpline or ineffective discpline?

I'm sure my friend does not see her child as others (I'm not the only one by a long shot) do.

But mainly I disagree with this statement:

"Everything is modeled. I have yelled at my kids, and then seen them yell. I have smacked my kid, and then watched her smack someone else. "

I've seen plenty if kids who hit, yell, spit, etc that did not get this behavior via modeling (at least I hope not). I guess her point is that it doesn't help & mine is that not spanking doesn't guarantee your kid will be non-violent.

yeah. You're missing the point. That's not what he meant.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2014 18:18:25 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

What Adrian Peterson did is not what I consider spanking, based on the pictures I have seen of his child's injuries.

I support people having the option of spanking their kids. I think it was (some 95% of kids my age now were spanked) and is an effective form of discipline, but spanking and beating are not the same thing.

Hitting your child to teach them a lesson and hitting your child harder to teach them a lesson are, in essence, EXACTLY the same thing. 

Do you support people having the option of hitting each other to solve differences in the workplace? In a friendship? A marriage? Why is it OK for a parent to hit a kid but not OK for a kid to hit another kid, or for an adult to hit another adult?

[rugbywife]

I don't know how you can hit a child, in any fashion and expect them to not hit others. I don't care if the situation is different. Children's minds don't work that way. It isn't ok to teach them that hitting is a way to react to displeasure - whether that displeasure comes from them making a dangerous choice or otherwise.

[undecidedowl]

Sept 16, 2014 18:22:37 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Sept 16, 2014 18:13:10 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

seriously?

You don't see a distinction between discpline w/o violence and no discpline or ineffective discpline?

I'm sure my friend does not see her child as others (I'm not the only one by a long shot) do.

But mainly I disagree with this statement:

"Everything is modeled. I have yelled at my kids, and then seen them yell. I have smacked my kid, and then watched her smack someone else. "

I've seen plenty if kids who hit, yell, spit, etc that did not get this behavior via modeling (at least I hope not). I guess her point is that it doesn't help & mine is that not spanking doesn't guarantee your kid will be non-violent.

Unless the kids are completely isolated, I would bet they saw it somewhere. Parents are not the only people modeling behaviors. Kids watch each other, too. That's why it's so important for adults to be only modeling good behaviors.

[greycat]

MH's siblings both spank their kids. I haven't ever seen it work with them. What's worse to me is that the punishment (including spanking) isn't done in any sort of consistent manner. The kids never know what will get them in trouble let alone spanked.

[pamela]

Sept 16, 2014 18:45:01 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

Sept 16, 2014 18:22:37 GMT -5 Marmee said:

I'm sure my friend does not see her child as others (I'm not the only one by a long shot) do.

But mainly I disagree with this statement:

"Everything is modeled. I have yelled at my kids, and then seen them yell. I have smacked my kid, and then watched her smack someone else. "

I've seen plenty if kids who hit, yell, spit, etc that did not get this behavior via modeling (at least I hope not). I guess her point is that it doesn't help & mine is that not spanking doesn't guarantee your kid will be non-violent.

Unless the kids are completely isolated, I would bet they saw it somewhere. Parents are not the only people modeling behaviors. Kids watch each other, too. That's why it's so important for adults to be only modeling good behaviors.

No. The same reason adults feel the urge to lash out when they get enraged. It's natural to have an animalistic desire. But adults learn to control it. Kids aren't there. That's what modeling shows them, other alternatives.

[Deleted]

Kids learn nasty things mostly from each other, assuming they're not learning it from home. I aspire to be better than little shitty bullies on the playground.

[imojoebunny]

Sept 16, 2014 18:23:19 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

Sept 16, 2014 18:18:25 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

What Adrian Peterson did is not what I consider spanking, based on the pictures I have seen of his child's injuries.

I support people having the option of spanking their kids. I think it was (some 95% of kids my age now were spanked) and is an effective form of discipline, but spanking and beating are not the same thing.

but that's part of the problem. He does (as do many other s) so when you say what you said above people think what they're doing is ok.

And no. It is not an effective form of discpline. No study in the history of studies has ever shown that.

humansciences.okstate.edu/facultystaff/Larzelere/sweden.html

This is a summary of a number of studies.  There are studies that show that corporal punishment can be an effective tool.   Not the only tool, not an excuse to justify abuse, but not something that should be illegal.  

[stealthmom]

Sept 16, 2014 20:33:07 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

Sept 16, 2014 18:23:19 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

but that's part of the problem. He does (as do many other s) so when you say what you said above people think what they're doing is ok.

And no. It is not an effective form of discpline. No study in the history of studies has ever shown that.

humansciences.okstate.edu/facultystaff/Larzelere/sweden.html

This is a summary of a number of studies.  There are studies that show that corporal punishment can be an effective tool.   Not the only tool, not an excuse to justify abuse, but not something that should be illegal.  

lol. I was kidding with my hyperbole. I don't *actually* know the full history of studies. I'm mostly familiar with studies in the progressive era. (That was another joke.)

But again, who gets to decide what is acceptable corporal punishment and what is abuse. A lot of people who use it can't agree on its definition. So I am VERY uncomfortable saying hey guise- studies show corporal punishments are totes fine when a lot of people share adrien peterson's definition of spanking.

Bottom line: you can discpline very effectively without a physical element and studies do support this. So rather than get into a protracted national argument about what constitutes acceptable violence against your kids, I'd much rather just leave it behind altogether. I long for the day when people say, "remember when people hit their kids as discpline? " in the same way we now talk about smoking in bars or watching live tv. (Another joke.)

[stealthmom]

If hitting kids really is so effective it should be brought back to schools.

I predict there are principals across the country who would love to get a hold of some of their students.

[stealthmom]

Sept 16, 2014 22:46:17 GMT -5 @fivedogs said:

Sept 16, 2014 21:16:17 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

If hitting kids really is so effective it should be brought back to schools.

I predict there are principals across the country who would love to get a hold of some of their students.

It's still in schools in a lot of the country.  In the districts in NC that still use it, they use a paddle and "State law requires that the use of corporal punishment cannot result in any student requiring medical care beyond first aid."    

www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2013/10/14/corporal-punishment-on-decline-in-n-c-public-schools/

hmmm I don't think ap's required more than first aid

[Deleted]

I am FIRMLY in the no hitting your children camp . I also only have a 2 year old, so have limited experience.

My opinion is that I and my husband are the adults, our daughter is a CHILD, still learning the ways of the world. She's going to has shitty days where she tests our patience, makes us want to scream at her, etc. But as the Adults, it's our obligation to deal with her as a child. To expect childish reactions from her, not adult reactions.

Also, I dislike that most spanking/ hitting occours when tempers are at their worst. Lashing out at a child when in a rage sounds like a complete loss of control on the Adults part.

Look, kids are fuckers, I get it. But smacking them around is only a momentary release of the Adult's anger. It doesn't really get at the root of whatever is causing the child to act out.