Poop in the Bible

[wambam]

So I'm doing a "read through the entire Bible" thing with the kids at church and we're on Judges. And I was reading last night and nearly died at what I was reading.

 20 And Ehud came to him as he was sitting alone in his cool roof chamber. And Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” And he arose from his seat. 21 And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. 22 And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out. 23 Then Ehud went out into the porch and closed the doors of the roof chamber behind him and locked them.



24 When he had gone, the servants came, and when they saw that the doors of the roof chamber were locked, they thought, “Surely he is relieving himself in the closet of the cool chamber.” 25 And they waited till they were embarrassed. But when he still did not open the doors of the roof chamber, they took the key and opened them, and there lay their lord dead on the floor.

So the dude was killed and poop came out of him. And his servants thought he was taking a dump (presumably because of the smell?) so they left his body alone for awhile. OMG. I am not mature enough for the Old Testament.

[CurlyQ284]

Huh. That's interesting!

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 9:37:55 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

Huh. That's interesting!

The younger teens are going to love this. We're going to have quite the discussion on Sunday

[Deleted]

My bible says entrails not dung, and "attending to his needs" not relieveing himself.



My bible is more genteel.

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 9:44:58 GMT -5 @fucksticklegit said:

My bible says entrails not dung, and "attending to his needs" not relieveing himself.



My bible is more genteel.

ESV is apparently poop-centric.

[isabel]

Lol this is not a passage they teach during kid's church!

[katfco]

I always loved that story as a kid because it was the only reference to a lefty in the Bible.

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 10:05:32 GMT -5 katfco said:

I always loved that story as a kid because it was the only reference to a lefty in the Bible.

Yes! I noticed that too. Weird details, but I like it. Reading through has been really interesting.

[katfco]

Sept 18, 2014 10:06:50 GMT -5 wambam said:

Sept 18, 2014 10:05:32 GMT -5 katfco said:

I always loved that story as a kid because it was the only reference to a lefty in the Bible.

Yes! I noticed that too. Weird details, but I like it. Reading through has been really interesting.

There's another part in 1 Samuel where David has the opportunity to kill King Saul while Saul is relieving himself in a cave, but instead just sneaks up and cuts off a corner of his robe. So basically, Saul is so focused on pooping, he doesn't even notice David sneaking up behind him. 

[katfco]

Sept 18, 2014 10:06:12 GMT -5 @kizmet said:

Sept 18, 2014 9:48:43 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Looking a little further, if you do a basic exegesis on the root word happarshedonah, it translates literally to "near/straddling/akin to", plus "crotch." So really, it could be either intestines or excrement. It's only used the one time in Biblical text, so it's hard to tell from other contexts.

Every party has a pooper!  

Haha JK.

I have always wondered when people take the Bible WORD FOR (English) WORD what was REALLY meant way back when it was written in its original language.  Do people realize it wasn't originally written in 21st century English......?

Eta:  Like.....what if "walking on water" REALLY meant that is got super duper cold one day and Jesus just walked on ice......?  (In full disclosure I'm not super familiar with the Bible....I've just always wondered about translation and literal meanings and such.)  

It also sometimes depends what translation people are reading. There are some that try to translate word for word, but in doing so, the idioms are still there and confusing in modern day English. Other translations are more focused on getting the point across, but if there are multiple possibilities, they only choose one. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who don't really think about that. 

The whole walk on water thing, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have frozen in a storm. 

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 10:11:26 GMT -5 katfco said:

Sept 18, 2014 10:06:50 GMT -5 wambam said:

Yes! I noticed that too. Weird details, but I like it. Reading through has been really interesting.

There's another part in 1 Samuel where David has the opportunity to kill King Saul while Saul is relieving himself in a cave, but instead just sneaks up and cuts off a corner of his robe. So basically, Saul is so focused on pooping, he doesn't even notice David sneaking up behind him. 

That's something to look forward to!

[smock]

Huh, sounds like George R.R. Martin owes some royalties to the Bible.

[wambam]

For the record: I am not a biblical "literalist" and I have no vested interest in whether it was poop or entrails. I just thought the ESV's use of dung and relieving himself were funny.

[05heel]

Sept 18, 2014 10:35:11 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Sept 18, 2014 10:19:10 GMT -5 neener said:

That is not the modern Hebrew I'm familiar with for that act! I'll have to look up the actual spelling and the JPS translation when I get to the office.

Ooh, JPS translation has it totally different. 

22 And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, for he drew not the sword out of his belly; and it came out behind.

So it's definitely about poop then.  Mystery solved!

[wambam]

frkls

[wambam]

I just texted my Christian friend who I talk about poop to a lot "You should read Judges 3 in the ESV" She asked why and I replied "because poop."

[jigsy]

Mormon Version:
15 But when the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, the Lord raised them up a deliverer, Ehud the son of Gera, a Benjamite, a man lefthanded: and by him the children of Israel sent a present unto Eglon the king of Moab.

16 But Ehud made him a dagger which had two edges, of a cubit length; and he did gird it under his raiment upon his right thigh.

17 And he brought the present unto Eglon king of Moab: and Eglon was a very fat man.

18 And when he had made an end to offer the present, he sent away the people that bare the present.

19 But he himself turned again from the quarries that were by Gilgal, and said, I have a secret errand unto thee, O king: who said, Keep silence. And all that stood by him went out from him.

20 And Ehud came unto him; and he was sitting in a summer parlour, which he had for himself alone. And Ehud said, I have a message from God unto thee. And he arose out of his seat.

21 And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly:

22 And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt came out.

23 Then Ehud went forth through the porch, and shut the doors of the parlour upon him, and locked them.

24 When he was gone out, his servants came; and when they saw that, behold, the doors of the parlour were locked, they said, Surely he covereth his feet in his summer chamber.

25 And they tarried till they were ashamed: and, behold, he opened not the doors of the parlour; therefore they took a key, and opened them: and, behold, their lord was fallen down dead on the earth.

We are a delicate people who don't speak of poop...only dirt and covering of feet.

[jigsy]

I'm not even sure where that saying would come from...maybe Jo.Smith thought there was an issue of shit covering one's feet while you relieved yourself?

[jigsy]

Huh...

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 13:20:51 GMT -5 frkls said:

Sept 18, 2014 13:19:20 GMT -5 jigsy said:

I'm not even sure where that saying would come from...maybe Jo.Smith thought there was an issue of shit covering one's feet while you relieved yourself?

feet = genitals in the OT

*record scratch*

Oh man, things just got ruuulllll intrstng.

[05heel]

Sept 18, 2014 13:27:39 GMT -5 frkls said:

Sept 18, 2014 13:26:39 GMT -5 wambam said:

*record scratch*

Oh man, things just got ruuulllll intrstng.

"Wash, put on perfume, and get dressed in your best clothes. Then go down to the threshing floor, but don’t let him know you are there until he has finished eating and drinking. When he lies down, note the place where he is lying. Then go and uncover his feet and lie down. He will tell you what to do.”

I had no idea! 

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 13:27:39 GMT -5 frkls said:

Sept 18, 2014 13:26:39 GMT -5 wambam said:

*record scratch*

Oh man, things just got ruuulllll intrstng.

"Wash, put on perfume, and get dressed in your best clothes. Then go down to the threshing floor, but don’t let him know you are there until he has finished eating and drinking. When he lies down, note the place where he is lying. Then go and uncover his feet and lie down. He will tell you what to do.”

Saucy.

[katfco]

Sept 18, 2014 13:19:20 GMT -5 jigsy said:

I'm not even sure where that saying would come from...maybe Jo.Smith thought there was an issue of shit covering one's feet while you relieved yourself?

I think it's an original idiom that loses some meaning when literally translated, not specific to the Mormon Bible. 

[wambam]

Now I'm singing "Joseph Smith went up on that hill and dug where he was told. And deep in the ground, Joseph found, shining plates of goooooold"

/random BOM interjection

[katfco]

Sept 18, 2014 13:33:17 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Sept 18, 2014 13:27:39 GMT -5 frkls said:

"Wash, put on perfume, and get dressed in your best clothes. Then go down to the threshing floor, but don’t let him know you are there until he has finished eating and drinking. When he lies down, note the place where he is lying. Then go and uncover his feet and lie down. He will tell you what to do.”

Call me naive, but I literally thought she uncovered his feet - a strange and interesting ritual.

She may actually have; they weren't actually married at the point, and another man had rights to her if he wanted. I think sometimes "feet" just means "feet." Laying at his feet would have been a sign of submission to him. 

[MadamePresident]

I really think there are some gems in the old testament. Jael killed a man by feeding him then driving a tent peg through his head when he was asleep. Samson told Delilah the secret to his strength, because she "nagged him to death".

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 13:58:58 GMT -5 MadamePresident said:

I really think there are some gems in the old testament. Jael killed a man by feeding him then driving a tent peg through his head when he was asleep. Samson told Delilah the secret to his strength, because she "nagged him to death".

Judges is quickly becoming my favorite book

[bcv513]

Sept 18, 2014 13:27:39 GMT -5 frkls said:

Sept 18, 2014 13:26:39 GMT -5 wambam said:

*record scratch*

Oh man, things just got ruuulllll intrstng.

"Wash, put on perfume, and get dressed in your best clothes. Then go down to the threshing floor, but don’t let him know you are there until he has finished eating and drinking. When he lies down, note the place where he is lying. Then go and uncover his feet and lie down. He will tell you what to do.”

Seventeen years of Catholic school and this was never once brought up. I want a refund! Now I have to go read the entire OT again

[wambam]

Sept 18, 2014 14:10:29 GMT -5 deej said:

In my Christian school growing up, we were all scandalized by reading the chapter where David repeatedly said he was going to kill everyone that pissed against the wall. We weren't allowed to say that! Why was David? And if he was a man after God's own heart and he said it, why couldn't we?

I used to be a children's pastor. Some kids read between the lines and ask questions that you can't really answer in front of a group of kids aged 5-12. Like "What did Esther and the King do all night that made him choose her?"

Steven Anderson AKA "The Pissing Preacher" has quite the interesting sermon about that. 

[katfco]

Sept 18, 2014 14:09:47 GMT -5 frkls said:

Sept 18, 2014 13:35:17 GMT -5 katfco said:

She may actually have; they weren't actually married at the point, and another man had rights to her if he wanted. I think sometimes "feet" just means "feet." Laying at his feet would have been a sign of submission to him. 

i respectfully disagree.  LOL

That they weren't married or that sometimes feet just means feet?