If your 19-yo stepson were moving in with you full time (hasn't ever lived with us full time) and you were putting together a living arrangement agreement, what would you include?
Some back story to consider: While he is a good kid, he has has some run-ins with law enforcement over the last 6 months, has a history of bad decision making and so has come to the realization that he needs to make a change in his life and DH and I want to support that.
So far I have no drinking, no drugs, no overnight guests. He has to be a member of the household, i.e., he doesn't just get to eat our food and hole up in his room. No physical punishments regarding the dogs (at his mom's house they have a very different way of disciplining their dogs and that won't fly in our house). Plus just the usual considerate stuff like picking up after himself and not leaving his stuff where the dogs can get it.
At the beginning, he will have a curfew since all his interactions with the police have happened late at night when he was out with his friends doing stupid shit. Yes, I know he is an adult and he can get in trouble any time but my thought is that once he is here, showing that he isn't making dumb ass decisions and is being responsible, the curfew thing will change but given what has been going on the last few months with him, this would give DH more piece of mind. Plus, DH figures if he is willing to agree to a curfew it will show he really is serious about wanting to make a new start.
He is hoping to either get a job or go to CC (or both) but hasn't nailed it down yet since he lives in another state and isn't sure exactly when he would be moving here. At this point, since he is jobless and school-less, we aren't planning on him paying rent but that will change when he gets a job. Once he does start paying rent, our plan is to put most of it in a savings account for him so when he does move out, he will have some money for an apartment, furniture, etc.
I am in totally new territory here since his previous times with us has been when he was under 18 and it was of a limited duration (like for part of the summer) and so things like rent, jobs, school and long term "house rules" weren't even on the radar.
And as of right now he said he would like to live with us until he finishes CC so this isn't just a 3 or 4 month thing.
Are there other things that we are not considering? Is there something else we should add? Take away?
That's really nice of you to help in get a fresh new start!
I guess I'd define "member of the household" more if that is going to be one of your rules.
Obviously, a completely different situation, but I recently had to live with my dad for 2 months and some days I would just hole myself up in my room or basement. I don't know, I didn't always feel like interacting with him even though we get along great. So yeah, I'd just make that more clear because for me it was a little hard going from living on my own since the age of 17 to living with him and trying to make sure I was interacting with him daily.
I would also probably give a timeline for the school or job just so he gets serious about putting in applications from the beginning.
Post by rosiebear on Sept 20, 2014 15:57:48 GMT -5
This sounds like it could be a really good thing for him; good on you for giving it a try. I like your idea of a written agreement, and a couple of things come to mind:
I think I'd require a decision on school v work within 3 months, and steps taken to land even a part time job right away.
I wouldn't restrict overnight guests.
I'd think about an actual chore list for the things you expect him to do.
... So far I have no drinking, no drugs, no overnight guests. He has to be a member of the household, i.e., he doesn't just get to eat our food and hole up in his room. No physical punishments regarding the dogs (at his mom's house they have a very different way of disciplining their dogs and that won't fly in our house). Plus just the usual considerate stuff like picking up after himself and not leaving his stuff where the dogs can get it.
At the beginning, he will have a curfew since all his interactions with the police have happened late at night when he was out with his friends doing stupid shit. ...
This is not meant as a criticism, I swear, just as an observation -- but you have a lot of rules in here that have "not" and "won't" and negatives in them. Can you add some positives? Off the top of my head, can you have an agreement (I wouldn't call it a rule because, like you say, he's an adult and all) but can you have an agreement that you'll have dinner together on X day or X times a week or something like that? I'd try to work in some positives; I'd also ask him for some items that come from him for further buy in, and less of a sense that your "inflicting" these rules on him. Good luck!
Well, he could have a non-romantic partner spend the night but at this point, he needs to be focused on getting his life back on track and not having sex.
I know many won't agree with that but for DH that is non-negotiable.
And, I'd make the rules very specific. Don't say "pitch in with housekeeping". Make a list of what he has to do every day. Don't say "you have to get a job or be in college full time", say "you have to go to community college on a full time basis, meaning taking 12 hours a semester or more, and you have to work at least 15 hours a week to be allowed to live here".
He was convicted of fleeing from police. Spent several days in jail as a result. Is currently on probation.
Once we have a more concrete timeline, I know we will get more specific on school, work, chores, etc. but we are having the initial "what is your plan? What do you think living here will be like? Here is our expectation. discussion this afternoon so wanted to make sure our expectations are not out of line.
Oh and also I'd tell him these rules now before he moves there. You don't want the bomb dropped the minute he walks in the door. I'd put them in writing and then ask him how he feels about them, just so you can get a sense if things might be an uphill battle.
I would think through the financial stuff besides rent, both before and after he gets a job. If he has a car, are you going to pay for his gas and insurance? What about his cell phone? Do you expect him to pay for groceries? etc.
I think it's nice that you want him to be a full member of the house, but I'm not sure that that will work out just because you demand it. He may spend a lot of time in his room with the door closed and I think that's ok. I would push hard on the no drinking no drugs must work/school and complete chores when asked. Also a curfew is totally reasonable for a kid under 21. Everything on the up-and-up closes by 11 or 12.
Maybe, you can ask if he would be open to a family meeting to discuss the agreement. This way you can get updates on his progress and what or what is not a problem. This way the agreement can be amended if he is proving he living up to the promises. It also would be away to ward off molehills becoming mountains.
I think respecting privacy is pretty important when living with anyone. I probably would show him where and how things work in the household. He shouldn't be expected to know these things if he hasn't ever lived with you.
What's the endgame if he doesn't follow the rules?
He will have to find another living arrangement.
How many chances he will get is still up in the air. DH is of the 1 strike and your are out. I am thinking more lenient and would be more likely to given another chance.
Oh and also I'd tell him these rules now before he moves there. You don't want the bomb dropped the minute he walks in the door. I'd put them in writing and then ask him how he feels about them, just so you can get a sense if things might be an uphill battle.
We definitely will. And today is the first of a series of conversations we will be having before he moves.
Especially since he needs to transfer his probation from his current state to our state.
TBH, if he hadn't been in trouble in the law we probably wouldn't have as many rules but given the situation with his conviction and parole...
Well, he could have a non-romantic partner spend the night but at this point, he needs to be focused on getting his life back on track and not having sex.
I know many won't agree with that but for DH that is non-negotiable.
I get the no overnight guests aspect, I would probably add no guests past a certain time because that impacts your quality of life. That being said, telling a 19 year old boy not to have sex is a losing battle. While I get that he needs some parameters to get him back on track I wouldn't make it so painful that he doesn't come or is adversarial with you guys the whole time.
I would think through the financial stuff besides rent, both before and after he gets a job. If he has a car, are you going to pay for his gas and insurance? What about his cell phone? Do you expect him to pay for groceries? etc.
You and DH must have been thinking the same thing since he just brought this up.
We plan on asking him his current financial obligations (car, insurance, mobile, etc.) and how he plans to pay for all that if he doesn't have a job.
We don't expect him to pay for groceries unless there are things that he wants that are not part of our usual shopping.
nursecramer We know he has been caught partying with his friends before but at this point we do not believe he has a drinking problem. If we need to lock it all up we will. But at this point it is more along the lines of "you are underage and on probation, there is no reason you should be drinking and it will not be condoned in this house. If that is an issue, then maybe coming to live with us may not be the best idea."
Well, he could have a non-romantic partner spend the night but at this point, he needs to be focused on getting his life back on track and not having sex.
I know many won't agree with that but for DH that is non-negotiable.
You do realize by enforcing this rule, he would probably move out and drop out of CC if he finds a girl he is serious about. When my H and I met, he was still living with his parents because they lived very close to the university and I spent a lot of nights there because I lived about 40 miles away. He would have totally dropped out of school and moved out if they told him that I couldn't spend the night there.
Also the "holed up in the room" thing is a bit ridiculous. I would always hide in my room because I either had homework, or just wanted to unwind and listen to music I like without my parents bitching about it. I still do that now at my own place when I want to read a book in peace without my husband interrupting me. Sue Sue's idea of giving him a specific list of chores is a good idea.
dot I get where you are coming from but at least at the beginning, he needs to be focusing on school and work and completing his probation without incident.
PDQ but he was convicted of a felony which will be downgraded to a misdemeanor if he completes his probation without any incidents. So this is why we are being more strict at the beginning. He is 19 and a convicted felon. We know that he is a good kid who made a series of bad decisions that ended with this result.
When and if he meets someone he is serious about, we will cross that bridge but at this point. Nope, no romantic partners spending the night.
And being in his room to study or to relax, that is fine but we don't want this to be just a crash pad for him. That is how he treated his mother's house and it allowed him to head down a negative path.
As time goes on I am sure things will become more relaxed but until then, he can accept these rules or not.
Well, he could have a non-romantic partner spend the night but at this point, he needs to be focused on getting his life back on track and not having sex.
I know many won't agree with that but for DH that is non-negotiable.
You do realize by enforcing this rule, he would probably move out and drop out of CC if he finds a girl he is serious about. When my H and I met, he was still living with his parents because they lived very close to the university and I spent a lot of nights there because I lived about 40 miles away. He would have totally dropped out of school and moved out if they told him that I couldn't spend the night there.
Why? You can still date and hang out without spending the night with someone every night.
If things get more serious with a partner, I'm sure they can revisit the rule if it's causing bigger issues such as wanting to quit school or your job...which doesn't even make sense, ha.
But seems like a perfectly reasonable rule for now! I honestly don't want to know my teen kid is knocking boots every night in the bed next door anyway, lol.
Post by EmilieMadison on Sept 20, 2014 18:03:07 GMT -5
If he has an XYZ conviction already, how can it be changed to ABC later? Are you getting this info from him, or have you seen court documents?
Maybe I'm being harsh, but this might not be the best solution. I think it's prudent to consider the worst case here. You described him as being a good kid, and while he may have the potential to be good, so far he has been the opposite. Would he even want to live with you with these rules? He's an adult and you can't really enforce any of the rules you're suggesting, make him to work or go to school, etc. You would have to legally evict him if he didnt follow the rules and didnt want to leave willingly.
I just think you should think about how this could go wrong.
Post by happyholiday on Sept 20, 2014 18:06:28 GMT -5
My 19 yr old SS lives with us. He has since his senior year of high school. He moved in with us to get some stability and a new start because he was failing school and had run-ins with the police. Nothing serious enough to get arrested for, but he was headed that way. Our expectations during senior year were that he do his chores and get passing grades. Also, following our household rules like no cursing, eating with us for dinner, etc. He got a monthly allowance that was not dependent on his chores. If chores did not get done, then $ was deducted to pay the person that had to do his chore. After graduation, he had to get a job for the summer and continue his chores. Gas $ and funding his social life came from his job. We pay for cell phone, car insurance, and food. He is now going to community college full time and has a part-time job. We altered the rules some because DH deployed and SS's behavior worsened. So, he now pays for room and board. It is only $20/month and we save that for him in an account. He also knows that if he doesn't follow our household rules, he will have to look for other living arrangements and pay for his own phone. He is currently using DH's vehicle, and he knows that too will go away if he doesn't comply with our rules. He is honestly a good kid, so we haven't had too much drama, but there have certainly been some rough times. Nothing criminal, though, just jerky (sometimes really jerky) behavior. SS has not had any real parenting from his mom, the custodial parent for most of his life. We do a lot of Love and Logic Parenting, so we continued when he moved in with us. It was really tough for awhile as we all adjusted, but now we're all on the same page and it's pretty smooth.
EmilieMadison It was part of the plea deal that the attorney worked out with the prosecutor. Once his probation has been completed without incident, he files a motion to have it reduced. OSS has given us permission to contact his PO if we have any questions.
And I hear what you are saying and from the outside I probably would be saying the same thing. But this is DH's son and he wants to help him. This is a way we can do that.
His mother is a piece of work that didn't even bother to call DH when OSS was arrested and has basically washed her hands of him so he doesn't really have any support system where he currently is. Here he has us, my extended family and his grandmother.
We just got off the first of what will be many calls with OSS. He is excited to be moving here. He said he is willing to do whatever it takes to turn his life around. He said he knows he has made bad decisions and that going to jail scared the shit out of him and he never wants to go back. I think that this whole conviction was the wake up call he needed.
If we had other kids in the house, maybe I would feel differently but DH and I can't have kids and we have decided not to pursue adoption that isn't an issue.
AutumnRose25 DH was talking about the big ones - like stuff that would violate the terms of his probation, which include drinking and doing drugs. And DH was clear with him on our call today that anything that violates his probation would mean he had to find another place to live. OSS was fine with that. He said he would expect nothing less.
I wouldn't kick him him out for not picking up his laundry or not doing the dishes. That is ridiculous.
Other than the probation stuff, if he ever hit one of the dogs in anger I would seriously consider asking him to leave.
EmilieMadison It was part of the plea deal that the attorney worked out with the prosecutor. Once his probation has been completed without incident, he files a motion to have it reduced. OSS has given us permission to contact his PO if we have any questions.
And I hear what you are saying and from the outside I probably would be saying the same thing. But this is DH's son and he wants to help him. This is a way we can do that.
His mother is a piece of work that didn't even bother to call DH when OSS was arrested and has basically washed her hands of him so he doesn't really have any support system where he currently is. Here he has us, my extended family and his grandmother.
We just got off the first of what will be many calls with OSS. He is excited to be moving here. He said he is willing to do whatever it takes to turn his life around. He said he knows he has made bad decisions and that going to jail scared the shit out of him and he never wants to go back. I think that this whole conviction was the wake up call he needed.
If we had other kids in the house, maybe I would feel differently but DH and I can't have kids and we have decided not to pursue adoption that isn't an issue.
I think what you're doing is great and glad you're thinking about and talking it out ahead of time.
Of course there are horror stories in which things like this can go wrong, but I hope it's not the case from you. I'm an eternal optimist Sounds like a great new start for your stepson!
Post by livinitup on Sept 20, 2014 20:08:12 GMT -5
Our 19 yr nephew is floundering in life - so this is very real for our family. He doesn't live with us but what I've gleaned:
-involve him in house rules. Grunts don't count. -wifi access cuts off at 1AM. This may not be an issue for you. - what meals does he need to show up for? What meals to cook? - Does he get any money? Pay his own way? What about tuition?
ETA: you've got this covered. I add the wifi thing bc nephew is a gamer. His dad has such a hard time bc the kid is home, in his room, not drinking/doing drugs/having sex - so, what's the big deal? Yet, he games all night and sleeps all day. It's very destructive behavior - and whether it's too much TV or too much Gaming, he can't get up during the day. I'd really caution that "up and out" of the house may need to be addressed.
Our 19 yr nephew is floundering in life - so this is very real for our family. He doesn't live with us but what I've gleaned:
-involve him in house rules. Grunts don't count. -wifi access cuts off at 1AM. This may not be an issue for you. - what meals does he need to show up for? What meals to cook? - Does he get any money? Pay his own way? What about tuition?
ETA: you've got this covered. I add the wifi thing bc nephew is a gamer. His dad has such a hard time bc the kid is home, in his room, not drinking/doing drugs/having sex - so, what's the big deal? Yet, he games all night and sleeps all day. It's very destructive behavior - and whether it's too much TV or too much Gaming, he can't get up during the day. I'd really caution that "up and out" of the house may need to be addressed.
Based on your and other comments, I told DH that we need to give OSS an opportunity to choose/be involved in the discussions about which house chores he wants to be responsible for. Not sure if he is buying into it yet but I am working on it. With a decent sized house with 2 big dogs, there are plenty of chores to choose from.
DH is in IT so already has a "Kids Account" login for the wi-fi that he can control the access on. YSS is a gamer and would stay up all night to play video games and sleep all day if you let him. So I know what you are saying on that one.
We plan on having a group phone call every 2 weeks leading up the the move to flesh out the "rules and expectations" He currently is living with roommates since his mom won't let him live at her house so said he is getting used to picking up after himself because (and these are his words) "no one wants to live with the stinky, messy guy."
Currently the meal thing is if we make a sit-down dinner and he is home, we expect him to join us. This happens about 2-3 times during the work week and once on the weekend in our house. He says he likes to cook so we will likely ask him to make dinner one of the nights.
We are still working through the money thing. He has about $450 worth of monthly expenses that will follow him here (car payment, insurance, phone, probation monitoring fees).
Tuition will be done via student loans and grants. We will be helping him with filling that paperwork out since he hasn't done so before. He will need to get a part time job to cover his expenses and spending money. He won't have to pay rent if he is going to school full time (12 credit hours minimum) and if he maintains a decent grade point average so his part time job money can go to his expenses. This will also be the case if he is working full time and going to school part time. If he is working only, he will pay a nominal rent (TBD since he really wants to get back into school) and we will put that away for him is a savings account.
DH said (but hasn't told OSS) that he is willing to cover 2 months worth of OSS' expenses to give him time to find a job. We know that it may not be that easy since he has a record but DH will be checking with his contacts to see if they have any openings in the weeks leading up to the actual move. He currently works at a fast food place so maybe with a good recommendation from his boss, he can get a job with the same chain here, even if it is owned by a difference franchise owner.
The move is at least 8-12 weeks away at the earliest so we have some time to get it all figured out before he gets here.