Explain dog parks to me

[hamster]

Wyatt has been admittedly under-stimulated lately. He needs to get out and run. We try and take him to my IL's 2 acres regularly, but it's only once a week if that. And at $25 a pop, daycare is a only a treat.

There is a 4 acre dog park near the house. It's got a big dog area, a small dog area, and then a third fenced in area that I'm not sure what it's regulations are. 

My worry is that Wyatt is, and I say this lovingly, a head case. While he's not aggressive in the slightest, he's very rough when he plays. Not all dogs are into that, and he doesn't understand social cues very well. I'm worried we'll meet the wrong dog at the park and it'll hurt him (helicopter dog owner, right here). He also displays some alpha tendencies, but he's really not. All he wants to do is play! But he looks and sounds mean and tough. He comes across as a threat in that regard. I know my dog, but others don't. And I don't know other dogs.

How does this work? Do I just need to get over this? Go when other dogs aren't around? I'm off at 12:30 everyday, so this is certainly possible. And he needs to run more than the doggie play mate. 

[aurora]

I'm a dog park novice myself but I took my dog for the first time this week. She needs the sprinting space and she's always loved playing chase so I figured it would be perfect. It was, for about 25 min, and then I think she got a little overwhelmed at the tangle of playing dogs. She yelped and backed off in her submissive pose and just didn't wantto play anymore (I'm 99% sure she wasn't hurt; I was watching and there was no biting and no marks or walking funny). My main recommendation, then, is to start him out with a shorter time period when there are fewer dogs.

FWIW, when we were there there were all kinds of dogs, some who wanted to play and others who wanted to sniff or play fetch and ignored the other dogs. There were some young ones who were obviously there to learn social skills.

[LoveTrains]

My issue is that morons bring their dogs to dog parks. Thus I don't bring my dog to dog parks anymore. you can never trust that someone won't bring their aggressive or poorly socialized dog there.

What about going on long hikes together? Agility training?

[Deleted]

I don't like them. Somebody always has their intact male dog there, or their aggressive dog, or something like that. We don't go anywhere anyway because my dog became protective as he got older, but we had a lot of bad experiences when we used to go. Daycare and/or long walks are our means of wearing the dog out.

[ddi741]

Do you have a Petsmart pet hotel or Camp Bow Wow nearby where he could do day camp? Its totally supervised and you could discuss your concerns ahead of time with them.

[hamster]

He still won't walk on a leash without pulling, and it's exponentially worse when we are somewhere new. It's just not a good fit.

I looked into agility, but I don't like how they structure the classes (dogs in crates unless they are the working student). He does have an agility kit on his Christmas list though!

[bostonmichelle]

Sept 20, 2014 19:55:04 GMT -5 hamster said:

He still won't walk on a leash without pulling, and it's exponentially worse when we are somewhere new. It's just not a good fit.

I looked into agility, but I don't like how they structure the classes (dogs in crates unless they are the working student). He does have an agility kit on his Christmas list though!

We did an obility class with Chase (my crazy 2yr old golden) and he loved it. It was a mix of obedience and agility. The place we go to doesn't crate the dogs (that I know of) for agility classes. He is still a little bonkers for them and doesn't have the focus. But we do a weekly drop in intermediate manners class and the teacher always puts out some agility equipment for them to work with. He has definitely improved a lot in the last year with weekly class, but he still has concentration/focus issues. Hopefully in the next year or two we can look into agility again, but he has a huge lack of concentration.

ETA - We have never brought him to a dog park. I've heard reports on the town's facebook page of too many aggressive dogs down there. He does 2 days of doggy daycare per week, its $25/day but worth every penny in my book.

[hamster]

Sept 20, 2014 19:58:25 GMT -5 tillie said:

Has he been socialized with other dogs? Multiple dogs at the same time? You should do this first and see his reaction. That will tell you a lot.

Yes, he's socialized. He went to work with me from 8 weeks to 8 months, and my coworker had his dog their too. He's been going to daycare since 6 months, although it's only about once a month or so (he's a year and a half now).

I typically only see him with one dog, and it's very much, "hey. hey. hey! what are you doing? hey. wanna play? hey! do you see that pond? we should go play in it. hey!!" He's nice about it, but he's damn persistent. 

If there are multiple dogs he has a tendency to focus on one that wants to play, but that doesn't mean the others are free of his antics. 

Plus he never runs out of energy, even if he's dead tired. He just.won't.stop. He's a live in the moment kinda guy. If he doesn't do it NOW, there is no tomorrow and he'll never get the chance again. The only dog I've ever met that would beat him is my friends dalmatian.

Like I said, he's not aggressive. But I worry about him being That Dog. Plus I worry about the idiots and their aggressive dogs.

[LoveTrains]

Sept 20, 2014 19:55:04 GMT -5 hamster said:

He still won't walk on a leash without pulling, and it's exponentially worse when we are somewhere new. It's just not a good fit.

I looked into agility, but I don't like how they structure the classes (dogs in crates unless they are the working student). He does have an agility kit on his Christmas list though!

Easy Walk harness or a gentle leader? 

I would spend a LOT of time on training him to walk better on a leash. That will tire him out anyway.  How is his recall? Do you trust him to go off leash hiking with you? 

Can you do clicker training to help with the leash? again, the mental stimulation will help tire him out. 

[hamster]

LoveTrains we have tried every type of walking device under the sun, and every type of training method to go with it. He just can't do it. I try and try and try and eventually my blood pressure reaches unsafe levels If I run it helps, but then I'm running!

I'm confident in his recall as long as he's wearing a shock collar (don't you wish you had a lab instead of a pug )

I'd have no problem with off leash hikes, but there are no off leash trails and he'd be covered in poison oak. He stays close enough, but not on the trail by anymeans.

[LoveTrains]

yeah...this is why I have a pug.

Good luck.

[Deleted]

I'd take him, if the parking lot was busy I'd leave and try another less busy time. But in my experience dogs like him have a way of finding best friends who get them.

[usuallylurking]

Sept 20, 2014 20:31:29 GMT -5 hamster said:

Sept 20, 2014 19:58:25 GMT -5 tillie said:

Has he been socialized with other dogs? Multiple dogs at the same time? You should do this first and see his reaction. That will tell you a lot.

Yes, he's socialized. He went to work with me from 8 weeks to 8 months, and my coworker had his dog their too. He's been going to daycare since 6 months, although it's only about once a month or so (he's a year and a half now).

I typically only see him with one dog, and it's very much, "hey. hey. hey! what are you doing? hey. wanna play? hey! do you see that pond? we should go play in it. hey!!" He's nice about it, but he's damn persistent. 

If there are multiple dogs he has a tendency to focus on one that wants to play, but that doesn't mean the others are free of his antics. 

Plus he never runs out of energy, even if he's dead tired. He just.won't.stop. He's a live in the moment kinda guy. If he doesn't do it NOW, there is no tomorrow and he'll never get the chance again. The only dog I've ever met that would beat him is my friends dalmatian.

Like I said, he's not aggressive. But I worry about him being That Dog. Plus I worry about the idiots and their aggressive dogs.

Lol, this is two out of our three dogs.  The male is also rough and vocal, like you said in your OP, which always makes me nervous because *I* know he isn't aggressive, but I'm afraid people definitely get the wrong idea.  Our lab is just very persistent and overly excited that she's easily overbearing.  They are 8 and 7, so, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but he could be like this for a while  Our third dog, a beagle, is just obsessive about the ball - he couldn't care less about socialization with other dogs (other than our 2).  

How far away is your IL's place?  If it's reasonable, I would make it a point to get there and run his little tail off, especially because you said there aren't any reasonable hiking trails and he's a crappy leash walker.  Does he fetch?  Can you wear him out in your own back yard with a solid 30+ dedicated minutes to fetch?  I would work really hard on figuring out the leash walking thing.  It sounds like you have, but maybe instead of the occasional daycare day, could you put that money towards a trainer who could figure out what is going to work for him and, in turn, they could teach you what he needs?

It is unconventional, but are there any fairly deserted roads that you could run him on?  Up in Alaska we had more of those than are typically found down here, but there were many days that we'd drive to our spot, kick the dogs out of the car or truck, and have them chase us.  It was seriously amazing the speeds they reached, how in shape they got, the endurance and strength they developed, and how effectively it kicked them into a post-run exhaustion  Admittedly, this may work better in our situation because we have 3 and if 1 or 2 were at least following us then the others were less likely to stray.  That and shock collars on our lab and beagle just to keep them a little more honest!

Our absolute best energy expending expedition is to get them to a lake (or the ocean where we used to live) and throw the ball or a stick in repeatedly.

Lastly, we do not go to the dog park.  But we have more options at our disposal (namely hiking) than it sounds like you do.  Our 3 dog pack is not aggressive, but they can be an overbearing presence because when they come upon one dog, all 3 of ours want to get their sniffs and wags and whatnot in, which is very easily overwhelming to a single dog.  Their recall is remarkably good, but it is not perfect especially when there is a new butt to sniff.  That and there are too many idiot owners with aggressive dogs at the dog park.  People just aren't good at self evaluating.

[M]

I don't like them. Anyone can bring their dogs and who knows what about them. They can be aggressive, may not have shots, or worse...sickness (kennel cough, parvo, etc).

My cousin takes her dogs to the dog park all the time and she's always telling me stories about crazy people. She's a regular there but they get newbies all the time who freak out about how rough her dogs (and her friends' dogs) will play. Wyatt acting crazy is nothing to worry about. Dogs are dogs, they play rough. My two do it too. So there's a fight among the humans. Then there are the jerk teen boys who want to mess around with the dogs and provoke them. I forget what other stories she's told me, but enough to not want to deal with.

As far as walking without pulling. Have you tried a pronged collar? I waited until Hilo was almost full size before I taught him to heel. Big mistake. The only thing that stopped him from pulling was a pronged collar. The prongs won't hurt him and only pinches when he starts pulling which should cue him to slow down. I walk both dogs (Hilo on my right and Kona on my left) with no problem. Hilo still tries to pull ahead sometimes but a little tug on the leash and he falls back.

[hamster]

usuallylurking the ILs live about 20 minutes away. My goal is to take an hour once during the week and go out there. Wyatt loves it and FIL loves it. But I'll need a longer term plan for when FIL is no longer around.

We do have a ton of logging roads, but again, they are full of poison oak. If we lived in Central Oregon this would work great.

M I have tried the prong collar. It works fairly well assuming we don't stray from our normal loop. I've even tried it in conjunction with the shock collar and it was so bad I had to put the remote away because I didn't want to go overboard. I thought about a trainer, but I'm hesitant to spend more money on it. He would need somebody to come to the house, and I'd have to have guranteed results.

He does have daycare scheduled for Wednesday. I'll take him on a walk around the block after cause I've always wondered what would happen. I bet money he still gets excited and pulls.

I am glad I'm not being totally over protective here. If I can find a time where we are alone I'll give it a shot. I'll scope out the area first by myself though, so I know how it works.

[usuallylurking]

Sept 20, 2014 23:01:35 GMT -5 hamster said:

usuallylurking the ILs live about 20 minutes away. My goal is to take an hour once during the week and go out there. Wyatt loves it and FIL loves it. But I'll need a longer term plan for when FIL is no longer around.

We do have a ton of logging roads, but again, they are full of poison oak. If we lived in Central Oregon this would work great.

M I have tried the prong collar. It works fairly well assuming we don't stray from our normal loop. I've even tried it in conjunction with the shock collar and it was so bad I had to put the remote away because I didn't want to go overboard. I thought about a trainer, but I'm hesitant to spend more money on it. He would need somebody to come to the house, and I'd have to have guranteed results.

He does have daycare scheduled for Wednesday. I'll take him on a walk around the block after cause I've always wondered what would happen. I bet money he still gets excited and pulls.

I am glad I'm not being totally over protective here. If I can find a time where we are alone I'll give it a shot. I'll scope out the area first by myself though, so I know how it works.

Bummer about poison oak, we never had to contend with that - only pushkey and devil's club, but they weren't nearly as abundant as it sounds like your poison oak is. Can you and your H attempt to leash train him? Maybe have you walk him and have your H correct him with the shock collar so that you can focus on verbal and physical correction? Or you have the remote while your H walks him? It must be hard to try to walk/control a 60 lb pulling dog while also operating a shock collar remote. Good luck! It sounds frustrating, but I'm sure you'll stumble upon a solution eventually OH! I meant to add this to my initial reply - do you have a treadmill? We have totally walked/ran our dogs on a treadmill before. Once they get the stride down it is literally no problem at all. They actually liked it!

[havarti]

Just to throw it out there - scent training. I keep meaning to try thi with my dogs because I think they'd love it.

[M]

Do you know how to correct with the pronged collar? Make sure the collar is on the top of his neck and not loose. (Look up how to place it).

We had a trainer show us and Hilo never pulled that hard ever again. She lured him to her dogs and he darted towards them to play and she snapped him back fast which scared the crap out of him. Then she lured him over again and he kept an eye on her the entire time and heeled really well. I'm not strong enough to do that but he's never darted forward like that again. A little tug on the leash and he slows down.

For the shock collar, I didn't read the instructions and beep as a warning and zapped if he still didn't listen. It helps so I don't have to constantly tug, say "heel", or zap. I just beep and he gives the leash some slack again. I don't use both collars together though. It's just too much.

For Kona, I did zigzags around the yard to teach her heel. But I started her when she was young. It doesn't work well with Hilo but it's worth a shot to try on Wyatt.

[patches31709]

I would maybe look for a different agility place if you don't like them crating the non-working dogs, but really, they do that for a few reasons - to help the working dog focus better, to help prevent any scuffles, and to show the working dog that now it's time to work. Or look into scent training. It seems like you really need something to tire him out mentally - dogs that can run all day like that really won't get tired from physical exercise.

[scout8]

I have a large dog who is a puller on the lease. The easy walk harness was a life saver for us. I know you said you have tried a bunch of things, but did you try that one? When we first got him (adopted as an adult), I had a trainer show me how to get him to walk better on the leash. Then, we practiced all the time. Initially, we wouldn't make it down our street, because every time he pulled, I would turn us around. We would just walk back and forth down the same street all the time. Eventually, he got better, but it took a lot of practice. He does still pull a lot when he is somewhere new and excited, but I can control him so much better with the easy walker.

I would give the dog park a try. Start out by going at a time that it won't be as busy. I think a lot of dogs play rough. It sounds scary to us, but is normal behavior for them. On occasion, a dog will show up that makes me uncomfortable. When that happens, we just leave.

[dexteroni]

We are also not fans of dog parks, at least the ones in our area. The few we've tried have had the same problems everyone else is mentioning - people bring unsocialized or aggressive dogs, and don't watch them. Even the well behaved dogs need to be watched; I mean, you never know what can happen when dog group dynamics come into play.

But your dog park might not be like that. So it's worth a try IMO. Definitely go at off times. Typical after work time is the worst, IMO. The dogs are pent up and there are so many of them. Taking him in mid-afternoon would be great.

Or maybe you can put together a play group with other pet owners? You can take turns at each other's homes if you have fenced yards, or you can all go to the dog park together, so you at least know there will be several other well adjusted dogs there when you go.

Also, if he does well at day care, he'll do well with other well adjusted dogs at the dog park, so I wouldn't worry about that aspect. Quincy and Sadie's idea of meeting another dog consists of getting an inch from its face and barking as loudly as they can. Dogs at, say, Petco or the vet's office waiting room generally don't like it (don't worry, we don't let them do it), but dogs at day care are like "awesome, let's play."

We are still big fans of day care. I know you said it's a rare treat, but does your day care do half days? Two half days a week plus maybe two visits to your parents would probably help a lot. Or does your day care do multi-day packages where the price per day is lower?

Or *whispers* get a second dog. lol. Seriously, Quincy and Sadie tear ass around our back yard a few times a day on non-daycare days. We still play with them, of course, but that few minutes of chase makes a huge difference. I know you said he needs to run more than he needs a playmate, but dogs chasing each other tire themselves out way better than humans can.

[hamster]

dexteroni sadly there are no half days or discount packages at daycare. I could switch, but this one is so awesome. It's out in the country, they do drop off and pick up, and they generally let the dogs work things out themselves. The big daycare in town puts the dogs in crates as a time out when they start playing too crazy. That's just not a good fit for Wyatt.

I've joked with H about getting a second dog, but it would obviously bring on a whole nother set of bills and headaches. Plus I think H would leave me (and the two dogs) if I brought it up with any seriousness.

But this cute face currently at the shelter does make a compelling argument:

 


There's a whole litter of them!!!

I'd rather die than getting another puppy though. 

[crashgizmo]

hamster, I feel you. Crash is a spaz pretty much all the time. He is super rough when he plays (doesn't know his own strength) and gets overexcited when around other dogs. I don't do the dog park, not because of the other dogs (although I've heard the same stories as PP's about aggressive dogs, bad owners, etc). Crash has horrible recall- it's the cattle dog in him and even our dog trainer said it was never going to get completely better. I would worry if he got distracted at the dog park he'd never come back lol.

We have a big backyard that he runs around in, and we have figured out some games to play that tire him out. One thing that works is that DH and I stand on opposite ends of the backyard and throw a tennis ball to each other. Think Keep-a-Way when we were kids. Crash will run back and forth between us for almost an hour, and then he finally lays down in exhaustion. It's hilarious. 

We also use a gentle leader to walk him, and frankly I don't think he's any better than a regular leash, but DH swears by it. I still hate walking him since he has so much energy, so I leave it to DH. We also try to go to my grandma's farm every month where he can run in like 3 acres of fenced land, which helps.

Most of this is to say I feel your pain- there are days when I wish I had a cat or a small dog who slept all the time. 

[hamster]

crashgizmo you understand me! lol. There are definitely days when I wish I would have pushed for a cat instead of a dog. But he's pretty good and snuggles and kisses, so he plays that cute card well enough I can't stay irritated with him for long.

Have you ever tried a shock collar for recall? It's done WONDERS for Wyatt. Like, we can actually take him camping now and know he'll come back. Plus he doesn't even need shocked. The vibration is wayyyy worse in his mind. I'm still worried he'll take off after a deer and not come back, but that's about it.

[crashgizmo]

Sept 21, 2014 12:09:30 GMT -5 hamster said:

crashgizmo you understand me! lol. There are definitely days when I wish I would have pushed for a cat instead of a dog. But he's pretty good and snuggles and kisses, so he plays that cute card well enough I can't stay irritated with him for long.

Have you ever tried a shock collar for recall? It's done WONDERS for Wyatt. Like, we can actually take him camping now and know he'll come back. Plus he doesn't even need shocked. The vibration is wayyyy worse in his mind. I'm still worried he'll take off after a deer and not come back, but that's about it.

Yeah I tell Crash that he's lucky he's so damn cute, cause he might have been shipped off to boarding school if not.

Unfortunately, he seems to have the world's highest pain tolerance also. We tried the shock collar for barking (after 2 noise complaints from neighbors) and he just kept barking until the battery wore down. I was like, seriously dog? That is supposed to hurt you. We also tried the citronella collar and the one that makes a high pitched sound- no dice. Luckily, his barking is better now so it's not as much of an issue. 

We have taken him camping and he has a tie out that is 50 feet I think. He is okay with that, it's not ideal but it ensures me he's not going to take off. 

[magpie]

We love the dog park, but it took some trial and error in terms of finding the right one for us. In our community, there are several dog parks, but there's one special one that has been taken over by a really great community of lovely (and knowledgeable) dog owners. There is no tolerance for aggressive dogs and the regulars know each other/their dogs and look out for one another. Whenever an irresponsible owner shows up with an out of control and/or aggressive dog, they are asked to leave. It is part of the park rules, so it's not like they are a bunch of vigilantes or anything, we just work very quickly and efficiently as a community to identify aggressive behavior and keep the park safe for everyone. I think the main thing is that there are a lot of really grounded "dog people" in there who understand dog social cues and know the difference between aggression and play. In turn though, we had to work on our dog's recall quite a lot when she was a young pup and make sure to call her away whenever she got a little too exuberant in her play style (she's not aggressive, but she is definitely high energy). I love this dog park though, especially because there is such a high expectation of dog behavior. I feel safe letting my dog play there and she definitely burns way, way more energy there, playing with other dogs, than she does on 4-5 mile runs with just me.

I do think dog parks are much more for dog play/socialization as opposed to just being fenced space for your dog to run though. If you are just looking to run your dog, I'd suggest looking into gentle leaders, prong collars or a halti so that you can run/walk with them. I have a bad puller and we've tried everything except the prong so far. She hated the halti, chewed up three gentle leaders and now we use this:
www.lupinepet.com/no-pull/

It works moderately well (though it's really more of a training tool than a forever harness) and is guaranteed against chewers.

[nessness]

My 1-year-old GSD sounds very similar in personality to your dog, and he does great at the dog park and loves it, and has never got into a spat with another dog (unlike my other two, who I no longer bring, but that's a different story).

Anyway, I think it's worth a shot to bring him; just start off on a day/time when it won't be too crowded.

[stealthmom]

Sept 20, 2014 19:47:30 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

My issue is that morons bring their dogs to dog parks. Thus I don't bring my dog to dog parks anymore. you can never trust that someone won't bring their aggressive or poorly socialized dog there.

What about going on long hikes together? Agility training?

this has been my experience. I swear they attract assholes. I would only go if nearly empty. Ymmv of course.

[Noblegirl]

Sept 20, 2014 20:31:29 GMT -5 hamster said:

Sept 20, 2014 19:58:25 GMT -5 tillie said:

Has he been socialized with other dogs? Multiple dogs at the same time? You should do this first and see his reaction. That will tell you a lot.

Yes, he's socialized. He went to work with me from 8 weeks to 8 months, and my coworker had his dog their too. He's been going to daycare since 6 months, although it's only about once a month or so (he's a year and a half now).

I typically only see him with one dog, and it's very much, "hey. hey. hey! what are you doing? hey. wanna play? hey! do you see that pond? we should go play in it. hey!!" He's nice about it, but he's damn persistent. 

If there are multiple dogs he has a tendency to focus on one that wants to play, but that doesn't mean the others are free of his antics. 

Plus he never runs out of energy, even if he's dead tired. He just.won't.stop. He's a live in the moment kinda guy. If he doesn't do it NOW, there is no tomorrow and he'll never get the chance again. The only dog I've ever met that would beat him is my friends dalmatian.

Like I said, he's not aggressive. But I worry about him being That Dog. Plus I worry about the idiots and their aggressive dogs.

This sounds very much like my dog.  He looks super aggressive (he's a Doberman) but is really just a big goofball.  When there was a dog park convenient to us and he was younger we used to take him.  If you go often enough, and talk to others who are there you learn who the "bad" dogs are (although we never had an incident).   It might be a good idea to start at an "off" time when it's not very crowded just to see how he does and to get him acclimated to the situation. 

Eventually though, we had to find a different alternative.  He has Von Willebrand disease (a bleeding/clotting disorder) and our vet (and second opinion) advised against getting him fixed.  His um, urges, became too strong. So for awhile we took him to a parking lot at a race track.  It was grass and a great space for him to run in.  Now that we moved we have a larger area for him to run.

[daisypaloma]

Our dog is not social, so when he goes to the dog park\dog beach; he's all about the ball and nothing else. 

You can't control the other dogs' behaviors, but as long as you're pretty attentive; you can spot the ones that will give your dog trouble before anything happens.  Besides aggressive dogs and dogs who may not be current with their shots, I get annoyed with dog owners who don't watch their dogs.  There's a local dog park that we go to only if we don't have more than an hour to walk him or take him to the beach.

Good luck.  I recommend hiring a dog walker who can take him to the dog park during mid-day when it's slowest.