Are the ivies doing this? Maybe these schools should focus on being more like an ivy and less like a 3rd tier Vegas casino.
I certainly haven't heard of this at any of the Ivies. Nor would they be practical outdoors due to climate as I mentioned in my earlier thread. Plus I imagine it takes a big chunk of land to build a lazy river - even indoors - and most are pretty built up already. For example the brown football stadium is already in a residential neighborhood across town from campus. They do not have available land for such a boondoggle.
outdoors (as I mentioned
If Columbia had a lazy river I would have to figure out a way to sneak into it. Alas, they do not.
Post by stealthmom on Sept 21, 2014 21:41:29 GMT -5
As someone who attended a college on a real river, if those assholes wanted to go to a college with a river they should have gone to a college ON A RIVER.
I'm at a school that voted to increase our fees to build a huge, nice (and LEED platinum, btw) wellness center with a two story gym, yoga classes, an indoor track, rock climbing wall, new health center, etc. It's a separate line item on my bill, and it's $300 a year. It's not a secret that our tuition went up to pay for it.
Why the other fees have gone up thousands of dollars in the past 10 years, however, is not spelled out so well. Applications are increasing, enrollment is increasing, top level administrative bloat is increasing. And public funding is not.
I'm at a school that voted to increase our fees to build a huge, nice (and LEED platinum, btw) wellness center with a two story gym, yoga classes, an indoor track, rock climbing wall, new health center, etc. It's a separate line item on my bill, and it's $300 a year. It's not a secret that our tuition went up to pay for it.
Why the other fees have gone up thousands of dollars in the past 10 years, however, is not spelled out so well. Applications are increasing, enrollment is increasing, top level administrative bloat is increasing. And public funding is not.
The money is actually not what bothers me the most, though it bothers me A LOT! What bothers me is that this is not what higher education is supposed to be. You go to college to learn. Of course there is a social component, but no it's not a damn resort and every day isn't spring break. And I feel like students expecting or demanding that schools have these kind of things in order to grace them with their presence is irritating me. Get over yourselves, kids. Go to school, do your work, and stop expecting everything to look like a reality show.
Seriously, how do people even have time for that? Meanwhile, my design cohort is begging for key card access to our lab so we can stay and work past 4 AM without the security guard kicking us out.
There is obviously an entitlement aspect. I'm sure many of the kids enjoying these perks are conveyor belt kids - there's never been any doubt in their family that they would go to college. And with the attitude that you need a minimum of a bachelor's degree to have any kind of future, of course they don't value it. There's definitely an undercurrent of resentment and an end-of-days attitude among a lot of young people. They know they're going to graduate with a huge debt burden and shitty job prospects. And they don't know what else to do other than what everyone told them they needed to do. So, fuck it. Lazy river it is.
Seriously, how do people even have time for that? Meanwhile, my design cohort is begging for key card access to our lab so we can stay and work past 4 AM without the security guard kicking us out.
There is obviously an entitlement aspect. I'm sure many of the kids enjoying these perks are conveyor belt kids - there's never been any doubt in their family that they would go to college. And with the attitude that you need a minimum of a bachelor's degree to have any kind of future, of course they don't value it. There's definitely an undercurrent of resentment and an end-of-days attitude among a lot of young people. They know they're going to graduate with a huge debt burden and shitty job prospects. And they don't know what else to do other than what everyone told them they needed to do. So, fuck it. Lazy river it is.
See, I disagree. I think they think lolling down a lazy river is exactly what the rest of their life should and will look like.
Here's where I admit I had never heard of a lazy river before this thread.
They are awesome....at WATER PARKS.
Not on campus. Although as a 18-year old kid I can't say I wouldn't think it was pretty neat. Most of them (myself included) just don't understand the concept of money and how student loans will affect the rest of their life.
No pool or lazy river at my alma mater. All the pools close after labor day in VA so no one would really get much use out of it. We did have an awesome acquatic/fitness center across the street from my dorm.
Seriously, how do people even have time for that? Meanwhile, my design cohort is begging for key card access to our lab so we can stay and work past 4 AM without the security guard kicking us out.
There is obviously an entitlement aspect. I'm sure many of the kids enjoying these perks are conveyor belt kids - there's never been any doubt in their family that they would go to college. And with the attitude that you need a minimum of a bachelor's degree to have any kind of future, of course they don't value it. There's definitely an undercurrent of resentment and an end-of-days attitude among a lot of young people. They know they're going to graduate with a huge debt burden and shitty job prospects. And they don't know what else to do other than what everyone told them they needed to do. So, fuck it. Lazy river it is.
See, I disagree. I think they think lolling down a lazy river is exactly what the rest of their life should and will look like.
This came up in the fancy dorm conversation. I agree with you that it helps lead to heightened expectations of what the rest of their life will look like and a huge wake up call when they graduate and are broke with no job prospects. I think we are doing kids a disservice by giving them all the things in college.
But I got pooh poohed by someone, can't remember who now, with this thought process. Maybe I didn't articulate it clearly?
Being around actual college-aged college students (and not my 30 year old college student self), I definitely sense an attitude that they know it's going to suck when they graduate. Maybe it's because I'm in a creative major, but a lot of my classmates are optimistic and have an entrepreneurial spirit, and know that they're going to have to be resourceful. And they work really hard. But their friends in business or psych? By and large, they're not there because they're passionate. They just don't know what else they should be doing and are hoping for the best.
The kids in college now are like, the tail end of the last generation to form their attitudes about work and money before the recession. It will be interesting how they talk to their kids about college vs. how their parents talked about it to them.
I forgot where I was going with this, but my point is that, as ridiculous as these amenities are, I can see why they attract students. What's another $5000 in loan debt when you're already leaving with $50,000?
Well. As an alum of one of the mentioned schools, and as someone who works in student affairs in a dept that exists to get students involved on campus.....I can kind of understand the admins POV. It IS increasingly difficult to get students out of their dorm room. I'm not sure multi million dollar lazy rivers are the answer, but there is research that shows that involvement/participating in activities =retention (and therefore graduation). There is also research that shows that student involvement assists students in meeting the accrediting standards for their programs. And involvement means everything from participating in student groups, Greek life, student government, fitness activities, intramurals, etc.
So I'm not defending the multimillion dollar facilities, but I DO understand the admins comments. And the struggle to keep up with the Joneses. My grad university spends over half a million every year on student orgs and class governments. They all get a budget, most use the money for food for their meetings that occur during lunch or for socials. We've asked about lowering their fees in exchange for a drop in org funding, and it was practically a unanimous no. And these students know EXACTLY what kind of debt they are getting into (future physicians, etc).
Me too! I transfered to LSU from another school ( in 2008) that had an awesome Rec Center and I Remember vividly complaining. IT was also noted that compared to other schools, our rec center was no where near as nice. If I voted in that survey back then, I'm pretty sure I would have voted for a lazy river.
I think this goes to show that its a competition in the higher education market. I saw many other schools with better rec centers and didn't understand why a big school like LSY didn't have one as a way to draw students. At the end of day that what its about. I'm in student affair too and I can see that these things do payoff in some ways.
Please telle when families are looking at schools, decisions aren't based on whether the dorm has a brand new wave surf pool or Nobu sushi Thursdays. Also is there a shortage of kids applying to schools? Why is there so much competition that it warrants a lazy river?
See, I disagree. I think they think lolling down a lazy river is exactly what the rest of their life should and will look like.
This came up in the fancy dorm conversation. I agree with you that it helps lead to heightened expectations of what the rest of their life will look like and a huge wake up call when they graduate and are broke with no job prospects. I think we are doing kids a disservice by giving them all the things in college.
But I got pooh poohed by someone, can't remember who now, with this thought process. Maybe I didn't articulate it clearly?
LOL, that was me. I think because the student center/housing we were specifically talking about wasn't *actually* that amazing (it was just architecturally interesting and modern looking rather than a plain cinderblock box) and the conversation had drilled down to things like, "dammit we had no heat and a broken w/d and WE LIKED IT." and I just don't buy that you must walk uphill both ways in the snow to prepare yourself for your first shitty post-graduation apartment.
I do agree there's a line though and I think perhaps a lazy river goes ahead and blazes over it while still accelerating.
Please telle when families are looking at schools, decisions aren't based on whether the dorm has a brand new wave surf pool or Nobu sushi Thursdays. Also is there a shortage of kids applying to schools? Why is there so much competition that it warrants a lazy river?
Well. As an alum of one of the mentioned schools, and as someone who works in student affairs in a dept that exists to get students involved on campus.....I can kind of understand the admins POV. It IS increasingly difficult to get students out of their dorm room. I'm not sure multi million dollar lazy rivers are the answer, but there is research that shows that involvement/participating in activities =retention (and therefore graduation). There is also research that shows that student involvement assists students in meeting the accrediting standards for their programs. And involvement means everything from participating in student groups, Greek life, student government, fitness activities, intramurals, etc.
So I'm not defending the multimillion dollar facilities, but I DO understand the admins comments. And the struggle to keep up with the Joneses. My grad university spends over half a million every year on student orgs and class governments. They all get a budget, most use the money for food for their meetings that occur during lunch or for socials. We've asked about lowering their fees in exchange for a drop in org funding, and it was practically a unanimous no. And these students know EXACTLY what kind of debt they are getting into (future physicians, etc).
Agreed, especially to the bold. In fact, with many states now basing state funding (however low it may be) based on course completion and not just enrollment, schools are looking for any way to increase activity participation (and thus, retention) of students.
That's why even more large public schools are requiring sophomores to live on campus as well.
I have zero problem with having super nice rec facilities on campus. It's shown to be a big deal for college students, it's something that they want, and it's something that a lot of them look at and consider when making their decision. Plus, it keeps them active, working out, taking zumba, whatever. That's not a bad thing for a lot of reasons. Our old rec center on our campus was a total dump. Students would steal weights from it. It sucked. I can understand why no one wanted to go there.
But you can have super nice rec facilities and NOT have a lazy river. Or a water climbing wall. Or a shallow pool that is designed solely for the purpose of putting a bunch of lounge chairs in it for sunbathing. There's a line here, and these schools are all crossing it.
Seriously, how do people even have time for that? Meanwhile, my design cohort is begging for key card access to our lab so we can stay and work past 4 AM without the security guard kicking us out.
well on an actual river you can have various legit classes. But I will say that when the weather is nice it's hard to resist going down and going kayaking or sailing or something.
I'm curious why you don't think this is a problem of graduate programs, yet. I see graduate schools increasingly supplanting undergrad as the way to academically distinguish yourself now that "everyone" is going to college. But the graduate programs are getting increasingly... weird. The school I'm at right now has a top ten business program and one of the certifications you can get with that MBA is beverage services management. I assume that's an MBA in managing a bar. WTF? It's only a matter or time before graduate programs are luring students and their $400 per credit hour with graduate clubs to keep them happy while they pay $20,000 a year to get something that used to be provided free as part of on the job training. Or stated simply: I see no distinctions between graduate school culture and undergraduate culture.
Oh, I definitely think graduate programs/institutions have their own issues. I just think that you could solve a lot of the issues overall at the undergraduate level. I don't see a lot of the issues of typical graduate programs (MBA, Masters in History, Masters in Engineering) because I work for a university that offers what I consider professional degrees- we have a PharmD program, a PA and PT program, a medical school, etc. Since these programs tend to be pretty competitive, I'm removed from some of the issues that I think plague typical graduate programs (under qualified students, under prepared students, etc).
I spoke earlier about the fact that my institution provides over half a million dollars to our orgs/governments each year. I have a problem with this, but I do see the benefits. Most of our students are in class from 8-12 and 1-5. Our students are non-traditional...they are older, have families, some have jobs to help pay for school etc. So if they want to be involved on campus, involved in student groups, that has to happen during lunch. So their orgs/governments provide food to get people to come to their meetings. Where they discuss community outreach, professional development, have guest speakers, etc. We believe our student orgs help prepare students for the real world- our Peds Club works with children in the community. Our emergency medicine group provides opportunities for students to ride along in ambulances and life flights (and the training for which occurs during the lunch hour). These are things that 1) teach them what area they want to go into, 2) help them learn skills that they will eventually use as a professional and 3) help pad their resume so they are competitive. Our clubs teach students of different programs to work together- interprofessionalism is a HUGE deal in the Health Sciences right now. We want our PAs, our PTs, our MDs, our Pharmacists to work together. So we encourage that by hosting events on campus where students can come together, socialize, take on projects together, serve the community together, etc. This takes money. Which comes out of their student fees. We have a rec center. Its nothing fancy- actually it used to be a house that we renovated and have made into a gym. Its small...there is no pool, only one tennis court/basketball court. A few treadmills/ellipticals, etc. But its a place where our students can go to exercise and take care of themselves which is extremely important. We have student fees that fund it, and that funded the renovations.
I realize that THAT UP THERE is just a lot of words to explain why student involvement matters. Nothing I said defends an 8.4million facility and lazy river. I agree that is just ridiculous. But there is value in extracurricular involvement.
Also. I have a chicken or an egg question. More and more I'm seeing jobs that only consider applicants with a graduate degree. I'm in what is technically an entry level job at my workplace. But they only considered people with master's degrees when I was being hired, and they wouldn't have even looked at my app if I hadn't had one. In the job description it did not say it was required, just that it was preferred. So. Who is making this a problem? The graduate programs that are accepting too many people and therefore flooding the market? Or the jobs that are requiring advanced degrees for entry level positions?
I don't think this is inherently bad. Back in the day, a masters was equivalent to an undergrad degree and many entry level jobs required an undergrad degree. Obviously some employers are requiring them when they are not really required. In many places, experience of a certain type would be the same as a masters (or better). It all depends and IMO flexibility is important.
For example, I work at a private school. We do not have to follow teacher certification. When we hire, it would be silly to not consider someone with many years experience and glowing recommendations and such just because they do not have a masters degree. However having a masters might help bump up someone who doesn't have as much experience. They are both weighed when considering who to call in for a demo and interview. But one does not exclude the other. Both in other jobs, a masters might be necessary even in an entry level position.
"“As it gets warmer, you start seeing less people in class,” she said. “Everyone will say, ‘Let’s go float the river.’ There will be, like, 300 people there, and there won’t be any inner tubes or rafts left.”"
What the fuck is this?
Are the ivies doing this? Maybe these schools should focus on being more like an ivy and less like a 3rd tier Vegas casino.
This happened at Cal Poly, except as po' ass CSU students, we lounged on the grass rather than the river. 'Cause that couple months of cool foggy mornings long, frigid central California winter is HARD yo!