Shots Fired: Annie Lennox calls Beyonce "feminist lite"

[summer]

The Beyhive will be abuzz, though it's not really a slam.


www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2774083/Annie-Lennox-slams-Beyonce-describing-feminist.html

Annie Lennox, 59, has slammed Beyonce Knowles for describing herself as a 'feminist.'

The Eurythmics frontwoman hit out at the 33-year-old singer for proclaiming herself a 'feminist' during her set at the MTV Video Music Awards last month.

She also claims many female artists like the brunette star only call themselves feminists to promote their careers.




Speaking about Beyonce, Annie said: 'I would call that "feminist lite". L-I-T-E. I'm sorry. It's tokenistic to me. I mean, I think she's a phenomenal artist.

'I just love her performances - but I'd like to sit down [with her]. I think I'd like to sit down with quite a few artists and talk to them. I'd like to listen to them; I'd like to hear what they truly think.



"I see a lot of it as them taking the word hostage and using it to promote themselves, but I don't think they necessarily represent wholeheartedly the depths of feminism - no, I don't.'



The Sweet Dreams singer also hit out at stars such as Beyonce for being scantily clad on stage and in music videos in order to sell their songs.

Speaking to website PrideSource, she added: 'I think for many it's very convenient and it looks great and it looks radical, but I have some issues with it.

'I have issues with it. Of course I do. I think it's a cheap shot. I think what they do with it is cheap and ... yeah.



'What can I tell you? Sex always sells. And there's nothing wrong with sex selling, but it depends on your audience. If they're seven-year-old kids, I have issues with it.'

Beyonce might disagree though. In an interview with British Vogue in May last year, she said: 'I guess I am a modern day feminist. I do believe in equality.

'Why do you have to choose what type of woman you are? Why do you have to label yourself anything? I'm just a woman and I love being a woman.'

[readyin07]

I keep seeing stuff here about Beyoncé being a feminist? What substantiates that? Not being argumentative, I just don't know much about her besides her musical career.

[heyjude]

"She also claims many female artists like the brunette star only call themselves feminists to promote their careers."

Lol. Annie. Lol.

[msmerymac]

Sept 30, 2014 13:52:37 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

I keep seeing stuff here about Beyoncé being a feminist? What substantiates that? Not being argumentative, I just don't know much about her besides her musical career.

Self described. This is the background of one of her recent performances (the VMAs, I think). 




So NOW OF COURSE we have to discuss with myriad other people whether sexuality is feminist (I take it Bey is a sex positive feminist?!) and, most importantly, whether or not she is pro choice.

[Deleted]

I don't consider Bey a feminist. You need more than "I am a woman and a bad ass woman therefore I am a feminist" which seems to be Bey's shtick.

For someone who declares the word, I haven't heard Bey articulate a single thought on equality for women aside from the idea that women can sell out tours too. Which no shit, honey.

[Deleted]

All I know is that I lost any respect for Beyonce when I saw the video with Jay-Z where she was just whoring all over him. That was a damn shame.

[Deleted]

Also, just to be a shallow asshole, I cannot take seriously a self proclaimed feminist icon who photoshops herself some Barbie doll thighs in a casual picture of her just hanging out.

[IIOY]

Sept 30, 2014 14:36:55 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Also, just to be a shallow asshole, I cannot take seriously a self proclaimed feminist icon who photoshops herself some Barbie doll thighs in a casual picture of her just hanging out.

One of my gossip rags reprinted this photo but fixed the terrible photoshop job that made the stairs in the background looks skewed. LOL

ETA: I will add that I agree with AL that I'd love to hear Beyonce actually articulate why she thinks she is a feminist.

[Deleted]

Oh and shake her ass without commentary. Which she should be able to do that all day if she likes. Go on, honey.

But for me, at minimum, if you want me to consider you a feminist, I need you to acknowledge that the world is an unequal place for women, that there are social, cultural, and legal barriers to equality, and acknowledge that those things need to change. You can argue over what those barriers are, how to change them, etc. But you need to articulate that they are there in some fashion.

A huge Feminist marquee sign behind your head while you employ women to exploit that inequality does not a feminist make.

[IIOY]

Sept 30, 2014 14:41:26 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I don't know if Bey is or is not a feminist because I'm not sure SHE knows what a feminist is, but I bet you that her declaring herself one made lots of young impressionable black (and other) ladies who hadn't considered the feminist movement as something they should care about or pay attention to before at least think about it. So, in that way, she may be influential.

Absolutely.  I give her credit for pulling that word back out into the open as something to be embraced.

[dawnzersong]

Sept 30, 2014 13:52:37 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

I keep seeing stuff here about Beyoncé being a feminist? What substantiates that? Not being argumentative, I just don't know much about her besides her musical career.

www.gradientlair.com/post/69871028815/beyonce-new-album-itunes-music

There has been a lot of discussion about Beyonce in the larger discussion about how mainstream feminism marginalizes women who are not white. Off the top of my head, I remembered this blog post touching on a lot of important points.

ETA: I realize this post is more about how people interpret Beyonce's work rather than anything specific she herself has said or done to claim the feminist label. 

[readyin07]

Sept 30, 2014 14:35:47 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I don't consider Bey a feminist. You need more than "I am a woman and a bad ass woman therefore I am a feminist" which seems to be Bey's shtick.

For someone who declares the word, I haven't heard Bey articulate a single thought on equality for women aside from the idea that women can sell out tours too. Which no shit, honey.

That was kind of what I was wondering. Strong, successful woman? Sure. Feminist? I have no idea. I was wondering if she had done any work along the lines of an Angeline Jolie, who I think it would be  safe to say can be called a feminist.

[readyin07]

Sept 30, 2014 14:46:05 GMT -5 dawnzersong said:

Sept 30, 2014 13:52:37 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

I keep seeing stuff here about Beyoncé being a feminist? What substantiates that? Not being argumentative, I just don't know much about her besides her musical career.

www.gradientlair.com/post/69871028815/beyonce-new-album-itunes-music

There has been a lot of discussion about Beyonce in the larger discussion about how mainstream feminism marginalizes women who are not white. Off the top of my head, I remembered this blog post touching on a lot of important points.

ETA: I realize this post is more about how people interpret Beyonce's work rather than anything specific she herself has said or done to claim the feminist label. 

Thanks, I will go look at this!

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2014 14:51:35 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

That was kind of what I was wondering. Strong, successful woman? Sure. Feminist? I have no idea. I was wondering if she had done any work along the lines of an Angeline Jolie, who I think it would be  safe to say can be called a feminist.

I don't even need her to work. I just need her to speak to the topic.

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2014 14:52:21 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

this is kind of what I was thinking. But then, we need her to be able to back up that assertion with words and deeds. Can she do that? I know nothing about Beyonce. And not for nothing, but I haven't seen Annie Lennox delivering any speeches on equal rights so maybe she's not the person to be questioning Bey anyway.

Her work with charities is aimed primarily at the AIDS epidemic.

[readyin07]

I wonder if Jay-Z is a feminist too

[heyjude]

Sept 30, 2014 14:36:33 GMT -5 @eveer said:

All I know is that I lost any respect for Beyonce when I saw the video with Jay-Z where she was just whoring all over him. That was a damn shame.

Why?

[heyjude]

Sept 30, 2014 14:36:33 GMT -5 @eveer said:

All I know is that I lost any respect for Beyonce when I saw the video with Jay-Z where she was just whoring all over him. That was a damn shame.

And did you also lose respect for Jay Z for allowing himself to be "whored over"?

[Deleted]

I need to understand why I should think less of a woman for getting handsy with her own husband. Isn't that what they are there for?

[heyjude]

Sept 30, 2014 15:03:44 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I need to understand why I should think less of a woman for getting handsy with her own husband. Isn't that what they are there for?

It's "the women aren't supposed to be sexual" trope.

But the dude's cool. So it's also "men can be sexual" trope.

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2014 15:03:29 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Sept 30, 2014 14:55:56 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Her work with charities is aimed primarily at the AIDS epidemic.

Hmmmm.... Well, the kind of person who is working on the AIDS epidemic is *probably* an equal rights kind of person?

Yes I would think so. Her work is focused on helping women and children. She also has a long history of activism and outspokenness, including being none too pleased with the Vatican's stance on condoms in areas most affected by the AIDS crisis.

I would say the only reason many of us don't think of Annie Lennox as a human rights advocate is because she's in the UK.

[IIOY]

I think reeve was mocking the shit that Bill O'Reilly and others gave Bey for supposedly acting like a whore with her own husband.

[iammalcolmx]

Sept 30, 2014 15:13:55 GMT -5 IIOY said:

I think reeve was mocking the shit that Bill O'Reilly and others gave Bey for supposedly acting like a whore with her own husband.

Oh , welp let me DD my comment, LOL!!!

[dawnzersong]

I thought getting freaky with your husband was the opposite of "whoring".

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2014 15:09:22 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

That sounds reasonable. I mean, she's walking the walk and wondering if Bey can. Fair enough I guess. 

I'd hazard to guess that her argument is that if you're going to declare yourself a feminist to the world on the huge platform that she has, you damned well should bring something to the table to further that discussion. If Beyonce were directing a percentage of concert sales to a women's organization, or contributing to a song that was raising awareness, I think most people would throw less shade in her direction.

But she's using feminist as a label and treating it as if it were synonymous with fierce, fabulous, or flawless.

In fact, I'd say the reason why she's using the word feminist right now is because it sounds good with those others monikers that she's claimed for herself.

Sasha Fierce, the fabulous, flawless feminist.

Sounds to me like Annie's telling her to put up or shut up but really, put up.

[msmerymac]

Oh! I thought of one feminist action Bey has taken. Her last name is Knowles-Carter. Whether that was just to protect her brand when she got married (even though she hasn't really been known as "Beyonce Knowles" in over a decade) is irrelevant to me - it's anti-patriarchy, and I'm good with that.

[heyjude]

Sept 30, 2014 15:50:31 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Oh! I thought of one feminist action Bey has taken. Her last name is Knowles-Carter. Whether that was just to protect her brand when she got married (even though she hasn't really been known as "Beyonce Knowles" in over a decade) is irrelevant to me - it's anti-patriarchy, and I'm good with that.

For her line of work changing her name at all is pretty much bowing to patriarchy.

[msmerymac]

Sept 30, 2014 15:57:56 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Sept 30, 2014 15:50:31 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Oh! I thought of one feminist action Bey has taken. Her last name is Knowles-Carter. Whether that was just to protect her brand when she got married (even though she hasn't really been known as "Beyonce Knowles" in over a decade) is irrelevant to me - it's anti-patriarchy, and I'm good with that.

For her line of work changing her name at all is pretty much bowing to patriarchy.

I think it's becoming more common, though, in Hollywood. Just like IRL. Blech. Jamie-Lynn Sigler changed her name, Ashlee Simpson changed her name... I feel like I hear about it a lot, actually.

ETA: And I think I heard that Jay-Z changed his name, too, but Wikipedia has him and their daughter listed with just Carter. 

[NitaX]

Sept 30, 2014 14:35:47 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I don't consider Bey a feminist. You need more than "I am a woman and a bad ass woman therefore I am a feminist" which seems to be Bey's shtick.

For someone who declares the word, I haven't heard Bey articulate a single thought on equality for women aside from the idea that women can sell out tours too. Which no shit, honey.

Do I need to come in here and leave my usual statement? What exactly does Bey adequately articulate - I mean like EVER? 
IIOY because you like when I discuss Bey.

[heyjude]

Sept 30, 2014 16:01:39 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Sept 30, 2014 15:57:56 GMT -5 heyjude said:

For her line of work changing her name at all is pretty much bowing to patriarchy.

I think it's becoming more common, though, in Hollywood. Just like IRL. Blech. Jamie-Lynn Sigler changed her name, Ashlee Simpson changed her name... I feel like I hear about it a lot, actually.

Yeah. And it's still all bowing to tradition. I'm just saying you can't call this a damn the patriarchy move for a celebrity to take her husband's last name.