Post by twinklelights on Sept 30, 2014 16:11:25 GMT -5
I m currently applying to jobs trying to leave my current position because the environment there is toxic and horrible. After 2 rounds of interviews with a dream company in a dream position I am the top choice candidate. They've moved on to checking my references and here is where things get complicated.
I have provided them with 3 references. One of those is a current co-worker from the job I am trying to leave. I mentioned I was not quite ready to let my employer know I am job searching and while they are fine with a co-worker reference for the time being, they let me know that I will need to provide a formal supervisor reference for my current job once an offer has been made. I am not sue how to handle this.
I will not receive a good reference from my employer from this position. The back story is wrong, but let's just say that a supervisor made an error and threw me under the bus to the director of the organization. Rather than me getting in trouble for making their error (that my supervisor made but said I made), the director used the opportunity to be extremely hostile to me. She claims I haven't done well in this position for over 9 months (I have been there for 2.5 years) and asked me to look for another job. She also told me she could not provide a positive reference for me. She is the only person in the organization who is permitted to give references, so although I do have a good relationship with my other daily supervisor, that person will not be allowed to provide a reference. The meeting where I was told I had been under-performing was the first time I have ever gotten negative feedback about my work. I had just been asked to renew my contract for another year 2 weeks prior and at that time was praised for my performance. During the meeting I tried to get clarification about what she felt hadn't been completed satisfactorily and I was asked if I was "calling (supervisor) a liar." This director has a history of being completely unhinged but until now I had not seen it first-hand. I am paid but work in a higher-ed setting as a quasi student worker so there is no real HR that governs us.
What should I do? I have to provide a current supervisor reference at the time I receive a job offer, but the offer is contingent upon a positive reference.
I am afraid the negative reference is going to sink my entire application for essentially my dream job. Do you have any advice?
Post by laurensmomma on Sept 30, 2014 17:07:30 GMT -5
Do you know what your company's policy is for giving references? I know many companies follow the policy of giving as little information as possible, such as dates of when you worked there, title, and verifying last salary.
It's a tricky situation. Even if you could use your current supervisor as a reference I'm not sure I would in this case since, if I'm reading this correctly, he/she was the one that threw you under the bus.
I think what I would do if be up front with the new company. Do not talk bad about anyone at your current place of work, but send them the copy of your most recent appraisal (that you said you were praised for), and give just a very generic explanation of why you began looking for a new job. Again, do not speak negatively about the company or director.
I hope this helps, and that you get your dream job. :0)
Post by orangeblossom on Sept 30, 2014 17:22:44 GMT -5
It's really in the bad supervisor's best interest, to say the bare minimum. I know in the public sector, it has come back to majorly haunt supervisors that have given bad references.
At one job I had, they were allowed to say we worked there and that's that. It was kind of a gray area if someone started talking on their own unsolicited and the reference checker fed off of those questions and asked more.
That's BS your daily supervisor can't give a reference. Was this only instituted after unhinged director came. Can you talk to your daily supervisor and get their input.
Honestly, at this point, I may just say to unhinged director. I've found a job as suggested. They will be contacting you for a reference, what can I expect. If you do not provide a reference, then I cannot leave as suggested, and how does that help the organization or something like that.
If she wants you gone, she can't do a half-ass job of doing it, and has to walk-the walk. It's part of being a director.
I do like pps idea of giving your current reference. If the new job is in a similar sector as the one you're leaving, the unhinged director already has a reputation, so people may be more understanding than you think.
Post by twinklelights on Sept 30, 2014 17:59:58 GMT -5
Thanks so much fr the input! We don't have an HR department that governs my position at the specific center I work at. The larger HR department pretty much told me that supervisors have discretion over their departments for employees in my position. We do not receive or sign formal contracts for our position - all offers and feedback are given informally and verbally (person or phone) so there isn't too much of a paper trail about the specifics of the position. I have never received a performance evaluation of any sort other than verbal praise for completing projects I was assigned. I do have extensive documentation of the work I did during the period of time that I have been accused of not working. It hasn't been very useful so far because HR doesn't want to get involved and the director will not allow me to present it to her.
The director has worked in this position for over 25 years. They have no immediate supervisor other than the Dean of the school we work at; however, she is much more senior than this person in terms of years on the job. While everyone knows she is crazy it is definitely on the down-low. I asked around after this situation happened and people were willing to share some things off the record but there is nothing concrete to say.
All of this probably sounds ridiculous and yet there is still more - after being asked to leave a few weeks ago and beginning the job search I have now been informed that they want me to stay "pending performance" during this contract period (over in December.) This offer, like all of the other things, was given verbally so there's no record of it. I am not staying for obvious reasons. Thy are going to be upset I am leaving. I feel like I am going crazy trying to keep up with the changes in their expectations and demands. It is truly the most horrible thing I have ever experienced.
I like the idea of asking about the policy on references. Since we don't have HR I assume that the reference will come from the director. In the past when they have provided references they have been asked t provide substantive information beyond employment dates and have done so. This was prior to me being on the shit list, obviously.
I wish new job was in the same sector. If it was her reputation would precede her! It's more in line with the work I was doing in prior positions (other references I've provided) but dream organization seems to require the current supervisor reference, regardless.
I am making an appointment to speak with direct supervisor (I have two, this is not the one who threw me under the bus.) I know that she will not give the reference without director's permission, but I am hoping I can get a sense of what they will say and whether they may be willing/able to give me a neutral reference to allow me to move on from the organization, given that (at one point in time) that was communicated to me as their desire.
Can you just ask for a verification of employment (VOE) letter from HR? That may suffice. We do those for employees all the time. They may just be looking to verify employment.
Post by twinklelights on Sept 30, 2014 19:06:27 GMT -5
They want a current supervisor. I actually wasn't anticipating this issue. I knew I wouldn't get a good reference from this employer but I have many other employers I could use as references. The ones I provided are merely my other two most current. The new position specified that they would rather a current coworker than an older supervisor, but clarified that eventually they would need the reference from my supervisor. I have tons of volunteer supervisors also!
I wish we had more folks authorized to give references at this organization, it would make things a lot less complicated. Other supervisors I have worked with indirectly will not give the recommendation because it's not allowed. But, since the company policy isn't based on an HR requirement for a factual reference, the person who is authorized will certainly give a fuller reference... just a negative one.
I may address it with them directly by letting them know they will be contacted and asking abut the content of the reference they will provide. It would be ideal if we could agree on what information they will share, particularly because up until quite recently I was on great terms with them and receiving positive feedback, even if that feedback wasn't recorded formally.
Does it have to be a current supervisor? What about a manager from a previous job or a manager from a current volunteering experience?
This. Or ask another manager to do it anyway. Current crazy boss doesn't have to know.
I hesitate to ask another manager to do so because it could put their job in danger. Either way, I doubt they would do it against the director's wishes. When I have asked other managers for things in the past in situations much less weighty than this one (an income verification letter stating I am a graduate student employee for an unrelated financial aid application, for example) I was told they couldn't provide it without discussing it with director. Which is ridiculous, but is what it is.
They want a current supervisor. I actually wasn't anticipating this issue. I knew I wouldn't get a good reference from this employer but I have many other employers I could use as references. The ones I provided are merely my other two most current. The new position specified that they would rather a current coworker than an older supervisor, but clarified that eventually they would need the reference from my supervisor. I have tons of volunteer supervisors also!
I wish we had more folks authorized to give references at this organization, it would make things a lot less complicated. Other supervisors I have worked with indirectly will not give the recommendation because it's not allowed. But, since the company policy isn't based on an HR requirement for a factual reference, the person who is authorized will certainly give a fuller reference... just a negative one. I may address it with them directly by letting them know they will be contacted and asking abut the content of the reference they will provide. It would be ideal if we could agree on what information they will share, particularly because up until quite recently I was on great terms with them and receiving positive feedback, even if that feedback wasn't recorded formally.
I would just do the bolded, and reiterate that it was them that asked me to leave, and you are just following suit. Again, if they want to do the dirty work, they need to own it. I wouldn't threaten them per se, but somehow, some way, it would be known that a bad reference won't just reflect badly on me, but on them, or however you want to spin it.
That is so crazy that the director is the only one that can give a reference.