Full day jk and kinder

[Redpoppy]

We have the option to pay for full day kindergarten in our town. He was going to be in daycare anyways so we did it. All of his daycare friends did half day then daycare.

The curriculum they must learn was the same in half or full. Full had specials (gym, art, music, media), daily recess, and extra enrichment time.

I had asked my cousin that is a first grade teacher. She said she can tell the kids that had half day kinder but it evens out in a few months. So we went against the daycare grain and did it.

We had DS do a full round of testing in March as we were considering having him repeat kindergarten. His teacher said he would have done worse with the pace of half day but they would not have tested him in the hope that he just needed the longer day of first grade. He is in speech for organizing his thoughts and had accommodations for teacher selection (he is anxious and can't handle stern) and being able to work while standing. It was an adjustment but I'd rather he did it in kindergarten than first where it is a more structured day.

[matildasun]

Full day pre-k here is 4-5 and kindergarten is 5-6. A is in pre-k right now and it was an adjustment, but she seems to like it now.

[ilikedonuts]

If I was going to be paying for outside care already, hell yeah I would take advantage of full day JK and K.

[changedname]

Oct 1, 2014 5:32:42 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

This is a fairly new thing in Ontario. Full day junior kindergarten (3-4 yrs in September) and full day kindergarten.
It was supposed to be the best thing for education. Now that it is almost fully implemented, there are a lot of naysayers and studies saying it's not all that and kids should spend more time with family (ha ha. As if the alternative to school is family and not daycare - lol)

Anyway, there are a lot of educators on the board. Care to weigh in? It is all play based learning. Nobody red shirts here (that I have heard of) but some people could skip junior kindergarten.
I wouldn't. Free childcare! And I think it's fine anyway.

Hi Hanny, I didn't know that kids can start at age 3. If my DD was born in March, when would she start? This could be a big money saver! Maybe I can have 2 kids after all......

[AmyRI]

Your family is not the type that would benefit from universal full-day pre-K or K. You are well educated and have quality, well-educated childcare for your kid. Free universal early education is for those that are not as well educated and cannot afford the luxury of a nanny/daycare center/SAH to focus on the kid's education.

[lishie]

My kids go to a magnet public school that does full day for kids beginning at age 3. I've really liked it and so have my kids. They go to before/after care at the school as well.

DS2 wishes there were more trains and pirate ships in the classroom, but I feel he's learning a lot while still having fun with some friends. DS1 told him, "It's school, you're supposed to be working an learning, not playing!" (DS1 is in K, DS2 is PK3)

He gets to fully "play" during his time at before and after care

[Redpoppy]

Oct 1, 2014 8:27:41 GMT -5 @cookiemonster03 said:

@lcap, i'll preface this with the fact that it's SUPER ANNOYING AND A HUGE FUCKING HASSLE for people who work (not to mention wrap around care at the public school + before and after care is like 80% of what I pay for FT daycare and daycare has better hours and less days off).

In short, I think it's a disservice to the kids to cram a day of learning (on the assumption standard school day is in the 5-5.5 hr of academic time range) into 2.5 hrs. They miss out on class projects, fun kid/school stuff, and it's really effing hard to focus for 2.5 hrs at 33, much less at 5. And I do think things like group play are important at 5 and should be incorporated into the day - not every kid has that opportunity outside school.

This is basically what our school said when they had the kindergarten parent night and encouraged everyone to pay for full day. It was a wash with us money-wise because we used the Y for daycare and continued there for after school and holiday care. His friends that did half day spent the other half in the Y kinder class across the hall.

[jessnpaul]

Full day K is one of the hot button issues in my town right now! Thankfully they're finally looking into it!!!

And to make the parents who are all "kindergarten shouldn't be a full day" happy, there *may* be an option for those who want half-day to do half-day and for those who want full can do full. This is all just the beginnings of the discussion, but I'm so happy this might happen before B gets to K!

The biggest problem in my town appears to be a space issue with classrooms.

[jessnpaul]

Oct 1, 2014 9:29:03 GMT -5 @cookiemonster03 said:

jessnpaul the issue for us is space and funding - there's a proposal to expand an elementary actually - but it seems pretty popular here. I imagine there's less SAHMs on my side of the highway There's actually a vote about funding for us this December, but (besides that you have to get enough people to vote for it, despite that it's only like $35/household/yr for the bond) I doubt it'll work out for 2016 for us.

Oh yeah, my town is inundated with SAHM's! However there's still a good majority of us working mom's here, so I'm hoping my side wins ;-)

Even if I wasn't a working mom... in this day and age, school is so much harder than it was on us and they really need the full day to learn everything they need to know! 

[L]

I sent DD2 to full day Pre-K (jr K) and I didn't DD1 or DD3. Honestly I don't think it made a damn bit of difference. In the extra 4 hours, they ate lunch, napped & played on the playground for almost 3/4ths of that time anyway.  Kindergarten is different though because no nap & they do "specials" in the afternoon (PE, art, computers, Spanish, music).  I was a SAHM through this & paid for full day PreK just so I wouldn't have to do the mid-day pick up...lol.  

[Deleted]

Half day programs are really tough for working parents. My kid can only do pre-K because we put him in the school my daycare's kids go to. He couldn't go if she couldn't drop him off and pick him up.

Although really... we'll have the same problem with full day school, I'm just hoping for better program supports to deal with it (bussing?).

[anna7602]

I don't think I would have been as ready to have another kid if not for full day school. In France, pre-K for DD was 9-3 and here, K was 8:30-4.

[imojoebunny]

We have free full day (6.5 hours) JK here at 4 years. I did not send my son. He scored 98% in Math readiness and 96% in reading readiness when he started kinder. He has been in kinder for two months and can read a lot of words, and add and subtract two digit numbers. He is also extremely well behaved and has no social problems.

I don't think it matters. In our case, DS stayed home with me for JK and went to a 15 hour a week program. The rest of the time, we just played and did stuff.

The 3 hour program was basically the same as the 6.5 hour program, minus all the eating (breakfast, snacks and lunch) rest time, and some playground time.

I can see why people who work pick the free program. It's free and basically daycare. I didn't enjoy paying $4k for DS to go to the other program, but I felt like it was the best option for our family and DS. He goes to free full day kinder now. He is completely ready for it, and it is most definitely not daycare.

[shell24]

Our kindergarten is full day and it is awesome.

How can people be against it? Lol

[rugbywife]

The benefits of full day kindergarten aren't going to be able to be evaluated in a meaningful way for many years.

First of all, it takes years to properly implement a new system. The switch from the part time model to the full day 'play-based/inquiry' model has happened over the course of the last 5 years. So if your child was at a school that started the first year, their teacher may have had 5 years to really refine how they approach the teaching…if it is the first year that it is being rolled out in the school, there is still a lot of learning going on.

At the same time, directives from the MOE have been varied, and the implementation from school to school, and even classroom to classroom has been very varied. In our own board it was as if a pendulum had swung, so in the first couple of years the 'play based model' was interpreted (by leaders and teachers alike) to mean that students literally just played as they wanted all day. This meant that direct group instruction and small group instruction was omitted. Now, 5 years in, our approach has changed. The pendulum is coming back just a tad - yes the learning is student directed, but that doesn't mean that small group instruction and direct literacy and numeracy instruction shouldn't be happening. Edit: It should be happening within the context of the student directed topics and interest.

One of the ways that FDK was supposed to be most 'impactful' was in making kindie less 'academic' - it wasn't supposed to be about learning specific facts - but about learning to love learning, about becoming interested in exploring new topics and being involved in creative play.

The challenge has now been transferred to the transition from FDK to grade 1 (and beyond). A good example would be one shared by my SERT (spec ed teacher), whose son is in grade 1 this year. His big challenges have been having to wait so long to eat (in most FDK classrooms kids can eat whenever they want) and that he said it is hard to 'have to sit so long on the carpet and at his desk'.

So now we have to look at how we approach teaching in grade 1. The reality is that our students all come to us at different levels of readiness. Some are ready to spend 40 minutes sitting on the carpet to do calendar. Others just aren't. We need to be adapting our teaching style to meet the needs of the students, not expecting 6 year olds (and in some cases, 5.5 year olds) to adapt to us.

I think in the long run FDK will be wonderful, but like any new program, it is suffering from growing pains.

[qcinoct]

I'm in ON and DS1 started JK this year. Particularly because it is play based learning, I think it's a good thing. I think if they didn't implement this, I would have my doubts but would have still put him in it as I work fulltime and daycare is expensive. He has a March birthday, so he's on the older side of things, but probably on the less mature side. I feel for those with boys born in the last couple of months of the year. DS2 was born on his due date in mid-January, and I'm really glad he didn't arrive in December because of schooling.

I know a couple of people who kept their kids out of JK (or, decided to just do p/t JK) but they went straight to SK the year they were turning 5, so no redshirting. I'm not even sure if that is an option, although I have a friend with a 2.5 yo who was a preemie born on Dec 31, so I know she's going to investigate the option next year

[rugbywife]

Oct 1, 2014 19:06:01 GMT -5 qcinoct said:

I'm in ON and DS1 started JK this year. Particularly because it is play based learning, I think it's a good thing. I think if they didn't implement this, I would have my doubts but would have still put him in it as I work fulltime and daycare is expensive. He has a March birthday, so he's on the older side of things, but probably on the less mature side. I feel for those with boys born in the last couple of months of the year. DS2 was born on his due date in mid-January, and I'm really glad he didn't arrive in December because of schooling.

I know a couple of people who kept their kids out of JK (or, decided to just do p/t JK) but they went straight to SK the year they were turning 5, so no redshirting. I'm not even sure if that is an option, although I have a friend with a 2.5 yo who was a preemie born on Dec 31, so I know she's going to investigate the option next year

Almost never. Special needs is the only situation I have heard of it being done in JK. And usually significant special needs. 

[AmyRI]

Oct 1, 2014 17:52:47 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

Oct 1, 2014 7:15:46 GMT -5 AmyRI said:

Your family is not the type that would benefit from universal full-day pre-K or K. You are well educated and have quality, well-educated childcare for your kid. Free universal early education is for those that are not as well educated and cannot afford the luxury of a nanny/daycare center/SAH to focus on the kid's education.

Well luckily, the government pays for it for all of us.
I send my child to preschool now out of pocket because I feel the nanny who speaks ESL and has no training in ECE is not enough for her. She is great and I love her and trust her, but a substitute for school, she is not.
And I cannot really afford the nanny but we make it work.

You're missing my point.
Your daughter is already getting a great education by being around educated parents and a nanny who teaches her a second language and responds to her needs all day long. She might not be a great school teacher, but she is still miles ahead of many parents. She is educating your DD, whether you give her credit for that or not.
The kids that really benefit from free JK and K are the ones that have no nanny of any sort, are not being taught by intelligent and well-educated parents, and are just plain behind your daughter's abilities because of it. Their options are no school or free school... so free school is clearly an advantage for them. Getting them the basics that their parents aren't teaching (or aren't capable of teaching, or don't have the time to teach...) is really important to do while they're young. Not all parents are good parents, but public education is meant to level the playing field so that every child can succeed no matter what their home life is.

And if you can "make it work" to have a nanny, you can afford it way better than the people that are truly scraping by. You pretending you are poor is obnoxious.

[erbear]

I'm a teacher and I would not send my kid to part time kindergarten, at least in the US. Because kindy has gotten so academic in some places, half day kindy loses all the good stuff - art, music, recess - and I'm not ok with that.

[origami]

We moved to Asia and our international school options were all full day preKs. K is also full day. It's awesome. I thought my kids would hate it because they had only previously done half days a few times a week. But they love it and I love it even more. I would feel differently if the school was over-structured and too academic. If it's a good curriculum then why not.

ETA: my kids are speech delayed and it has been a HUGE benefit. I SAH and I always took my kids to play places and out with friends, plus ST. But that was no match for being surrounded by the same group of people every day who speak well and intentionally create a language-rich environment. It has made a more noticeable impact on their speech than speech therapy. My kids started out in an ECSE part-time preschool that did jack shit for their speech. Maybe our experience is not the norm, I don't know. But I can say it does benefit more people than just those who can't afford preschool or daycare.

[irishbride2]

Well my child started full day 3 year olds last year. So I'm fine with it