Breaking:80 people being monitored for Ebola

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2014 9:25:08 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:21:33 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Right?!?  C'mon.  He came here for TREATMENT.  And then didn't tell the folks at the hospital that he had been exposed to and suspected he had EBOLA.  

That doesn't absolve the hospital from being grossly negligent, but seriously.  YOU KNEW YOU HAD EBOLA!

Ok you guys almost have me here but I am perplexed at someone just letting the hospital release them when you think you have Ebola. Cause I would be like " Where are those special drugs and my room in a bubble? I'm gonna stay a while."

Because the doctors are supposed to know best. And they ignore you after they say it's time to leave.

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:25:08 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:21:33 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Right?!?  C'mon.  He came here for TREATMENT.  And then didn't tell the folks at the hospital that he had been exposed to and suspected he had EBOLA.  

That doesn't absolve the hospital from being grossly negligent, but seriously.  YOU KNEW YOU HAD EBOLA!

Ok you guys almost have me here but I am perplexed at someone just letting the hospital release them when you think you have Ebola. Cause I would be like " Where are those special drugs and my room in a bubble? I'm gonna stay a while."

They gave him some antibiotics.  Who knows if he thought it was that easy?  Or he's psyched because the American doctor told him it's not ebola?

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2014 9:25:39 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

I want to know when he bought his ticket....Maybe he had been planning for six months to visit...but he's not blameless here. 

Dude, just... shut up. Go sit down and shut up.

[Deleted]

Maybe he was hoping he didn't have Ebola. I hope I'm not painting Liberians as stupid here but NPR was telling me that part of the reason they can't contain this aside from what I mentioned is that people refuse to believe the facts about Ebola. Some don't believe it's real. Some believe it's a government conspiracy. They don't believe it's spread the way it is, that medicine is needed, etc.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he figured, well look, they should be able to tell if I've got Ebola, right? And then when they didn't, thought, oh thank God and left trying to believe he just had a cold.

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:27:41 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:25:39 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

I want to know when he bought his ticket....Maybe he had been planning for six months to visit...but he's not blameless here. 

Dude, just... shut up. Go sit down and shut up.

wait, whut?  Someone runs away from a scary disease in a pique of self interest.   I'm ok with that.  But why can't we call it what it is?  It's human nature, very Leviathan.  Or maybe it's bad timing, and he didn't know.   But I see some strong evidence he did at least know he was at risk.  Postulating on motives is now verboten because...?

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2014 9:29:13 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Maybe he was hoping he didn't have Ebola. I hope I'm not painting Liberians as stupid here but NPR was telling me that part of the reason they can't contain this aside from what I mentioned is that people refuse to believe the facts about Ebola. Some don't believe it's real. Some believe it's a government conspiracy. They don't believe it's spread the way it is, that medicine is needed, etc.

Sounds an awful like a lot of Americans.

[juliette21]

Oct 2, 2014 9:19:50 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

"Duncan, a Liberian national, may have contracted the virus in Liberia while taking a deathly ill neighbor to the hospital four days before he flew to Dallas to visit family members, The New York Times reported."

This makes me a little mad at him. Cause he knew.

This is exactly why I think there will be an outbreak.

I know I got a lot of flack in the other thread, but I really don't think this is the last case we'll see here in the U.S. People will be stupid and lie. Or the hospital will screw shit up like they did in Dallas.

People are stupid. People make mistakes. Because of that, there will be more cases.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2014 9:29:48 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:27:41 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Dude, just... shut up. Go sit down and shut up.

wait, whut?  Someone runs away from a scary disease in a pique of self interest.   I'm ok with that.  But why can't we call it what it is?  It's human nature, very Leviathan.  Or maybe it's bad timing, and he didn't know.   But I see some strong evidence he did at least know he was at risk.  Postulating on motives is now verboten because...?

You are a fucking idiot. How dare you blame this guy. He was here AFTER he started showing symptoms. When he flew he had no idea he was sick. He was just visiting his family. You are victim blaming, and it's disgusting.

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:30:32 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:19:50 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

"Duncan, a Liberian national, may have contracted the virus in Liberia while taking a deathly ill neighbor to the hospital four days before he flew to Dallas to visit family members, The New York Times reported."

This makes me a little mad at him. Cause he knew.

This is exactly why I think there will be an outbreak.

I know I got a lot of flack in the other thread, but I really don't think this is the last case we'll see here in the U.S. People will be stupid and lie. Or the hospital will screw shit up like they did in Dallas.

People are stupid. People make mistakes. Because of that, there will be more cases.

In this case, it's not stupid to lie.  Your chances are way better in the US if you have Ebola, so it's in your own best interest if you have it to lie and get to a Western country.  Not stupid at all, and what I would do myself and for my family.  I ain't mad at that....but you can't be hiding, you have to announce yourself and roll on up to the hospital with an Ebola sign.  

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 2, 2014 9:26:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:25:08 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Ok you guys almost have me here but I am perplexed at someone just letting the hospital release them when you think you have Ebola. Cause I would be like " Where are those special drugs and my room in a bubble? I'm gonna stay a while."

Because the doctors are supposed to know best. And they ignore you after they say it's time to leave.

Good point. That is so sad. I hope he pulls through.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2014 9:32:56 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:30:32 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

This is exactly why I think there will be an outbreak.

I know I got a lot of flack in the other thread, but I really don't think this is the last case we'll see here in the U.S. People will be stupid and lie. Or the hospital will screw shit up like they did in Dallas.

People are stupid. People make mistakes. Because of that, there will be more cases.

In this case, it's not stupid to lie.  Your chances are way better in the US if you have Ebola, so it's in your own best interest if you have it to lie and get to a Western country.  Not stupid at all, and what I would do myself and for my family.  I ain't mad at that....but you can't be hiding, you have to announce yourself and roll on up to the hospital with an Ebola sign.  

Ok, how did he lie. If you want to go down this road, chart his timeline and prove your case. Otherwise you're fearmongering.

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 2, 2014 9:31:50 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:25:08 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Ok you guys almost have me here but I am perplexed at someone just letting the hospital release them when you think you have Ebola. Cause I would be like " Where are those special drugs and my room in a bubble? I'm gonna stay a while."

Maybe after being examined he thought, "Phewww... that was a close call."

Because the symptoms are so Flu-like he could have just thought he had a stomach bug.

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:32:05 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:29:48 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

wait, whut?  Someone runs away from a scary disease in a pique of self interest.   I'm ok with that.  But why can't we call it what it is?  It's human nature, very Leviathan.  Or maybe it's bad timing, and he didn't know.   But I see some strong evidence he did at least know he was at risk.  Postulating on motives is now verboten because...?

You are a fucking idiot. How dare you blame this guy. He was here AFTER he started showing symptoms. When he flew he had no idea he was sick. He was just visiting his family. You are victim blaming, and it's disgusting.

You can be both victim and vector.  Remember the asshole guy with TB who was on a plane?  Yeah.   So it's a human tragedy he has ebola.  But it sounds like he KNEW he was at a huge risk and fled.  That's not accidental.   Or I'm wrong and this was his annual trip to Texas, but from reports is sounds like he is an Ebola refugee.  Which I'm not mad at, but I don't absolve him from his role, either.   Public health is a communal responsibility and this man put his extended family at risk.   IF he knew, and it seems better than 50/50 that he did, he was at best selfishly looking for a cure.   

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2014 9:37:08 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:32:05 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

You are a fucking idiot. How dare you blame this guy. He was here AFTER he started showing symptoms. When he flew he had no idea he was sick. He was just visiting his family. You are victim blaming, and it's disgusting.

You can be both victim and vector.  Remember the asshole guy with TB who was on a plane?  Yeah.   So it's a human tragedy he has ebola.  But it sounds like he KNEW he was at a huge risk and fled.  That's not accidental.   Or I'm wrong and this was his annual trip to Texas, but from reports is sounds like he is an Ebola refugee.  Which I'm not mad at, but I don't absolve him from his role, either.   Public health is a communal responsibility and this man put his extended family at risk.   IF he knew, and it seems better than 50/50 that he did, he was at best selfishly looking for a cure.   

Do you want to close the borders too? Surely the Mexicans have something to do with this.

[ttt]

If I were in Liberia and suspected I had Ebola, I'd sure as hell try to make it to the US (or Europe) too. I mean, he helped his landlord's daughter to the hospital and there was no room for her, so she got to just come home and die. I don't blame him for that.

But I do think he should have told the nurse or whoever that he suspected he had ebola. Assuming he didn't, of course.

Regardless, the hospital should be in HUGE trouble for this.

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:35:09 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:32:56 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

In this case, it's not stupid to lie.  Your chances are way better in the US if you have Ebola, so it's in your own best interest if you have it to lie and get to a Western country.  Not stupid at all, and what I would do myself and for my family.  I ain't mad at that....but you can't be hiding, you have to announce yourself and roll on up to the hospital with an Ebola sign.  

Ok, how did he lie. If you want to go down this road, chart his timeline and prove your case. Otherwise you're fearmongering.

When you leave Liberia, you are asked if you have had any contact with ebola patients.  He drove his dying landlord's daughter to the hospital 4 days before.  

Again, I'm not mad, he made a smart decision for himself.  But lied to the Liberian customs people.  They would have quarantined him for 21 days if he told the truth.

[ttt]

Oct 2, 2014 9:30:50 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:23:50 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

I just read his nephew called the CDC on him to get him treatment.   FUCK that texas hospital.  They seriously screwed the pooch on this one.  I am wondering if "nurse" is RN or like a triage LPN or Medical assistant.  But they all should know better...

Here is what happened:  Triaged (vitals taken symptoms charted), waited for nurse.  Nurse asks all the medical history question which include "Have you travelled recently" he answers that he came from Liberia but nurse doesn't know where the shit Liberia is and charts it electronically, but doesn't say anything to the doctor about the travel because she doesn't recognize it as relevant, so the ER doc comes in and does his own exam which does NOT include the recent travel question because that's the nurse's job to ask that question and communicate anything relevant there.  He sees some dude with a flu-type cold.  The big thing everyone who touches his file knows is: no insurance. So they discharge him with a prescription for antibiotics and his diagnosis at that time is "acute lack of insurance."  Physician charts his own shit electronically without even looking at what the nurse charted, so never makes the connection to call the guy back.  Ta-da: Outbreak.  The nurse and the doctor both should be suspended without pay.  And I'm usually a big defender of the realities of "human error" in medicine.  READ THE FUCKING CHART. 

I'm willing to put money on this being nearly 100% accurate as to what happened. 

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:39:41 GMT -5 ttt said:

If I were in Liberia and suspected I had Ebola, I'd sure as hell try to make it to the US (or Europe) too. I mean, he helped his landlord's daughter to the hospital and there was no room for her, so she got to just come home and die. I don't blame him for that.

But I do think he should have told the nurse or whoever that he suspected he had ebola. Assuming he didn't, of course.

Regardless, the hospital should be in HUGE trouble for this.

Nice strawman.

No to closing the borders.   What's this about Mexico?  Someone disagrees with you and  you fall back on fallacies to make your point?

[Deleted]

I really think he was hoping he didn't have Ebola and assumed the doctors would figure it out if he did.

He came here and visited his family. I just can't believe that he would believe he had Ebola even after seeing a doctor and just go hang out with his family like it was nothing. It seems more likely to me that he was hoping it was just a simple infection and then that the antibiotics would fix it/keep it from spreading.

[ttt]

Oct 2, 2014 9:42:11 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:39:41 GMT -5 ttt said:

If I were in Liberia and suspected I had Ebola, I'd sure as hell try to make it to the US (or Europe) too. I mean, he helped his landlord's daughter to the hospital and there was no room for her, so she got to just come home and die. I don't blame him for that.

But I do think he should have told the nurse or whoever that he suspected he had ebola. Assuming he didn't, of course.

Regardless, the hospital should be in HUGE trouble for this.

Nice strawman.

No to closing the borders.   What's this about Mexico?  Someone disagrees with you and  you fall back on fallacies to make your point?

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:44:50 GMT -5 ttt said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:42:11 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Nice strawman.

No to closing the borders.   What's this about Mexico?  Someone disagrees with you and  you fall back on fallacies to make your point?

My bad! That was for Rainbow Brite! 

[pixy0stix]

Oct 2, 2014 9:42:11 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:39:41 GMT -5 ttt said:

If I were in Liberia and suspected I had Ebola, I'd sure as hell try to make it to the US (or Europe) too. I mean, he helped his landlord's daughter to the hospital and there was no room for her, so she got to just come home and die. I don't blame him for that.

But I do think he should have told the nurse or whoever that he suspected he had ebola. Assuming he didn't, of course.

Regardless, the hospital should be in HUGE trouble for this.

Nice strawman.

No to closing the borders.   What's this about Mexico?  Someone disagrees with you and  you fall back on fallacies to make your point?

You quoted the wrong person. Fallacies isn't the word you want to use.

The conservative rhetoric is that ebola is going to get here with the kids that are crossing the borders. Hyped up accusations such as what you're throwing around.

The long and short of it is that he flew when he wasn't exhibiting symptoms. The trip was probably planned. He did what most people would do and not cancel and expensive trip. Once he realized he was sick, he went to the hospital and did everything he could to receive help. Accusing him of "fleeing" is beside the point and muddies what happened here.

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:48:05 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 2, 2014 9:42:11 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Nice strawman.

No to closing the borders.   What's this about Mexico?  Someone disagrees with you and  you fall back on fallacies to make your point?

You quoted the wrong person. Fallacies isn't the word you want to use.

The conservative rhetoric is that ebola is going to get here with the kids that are crossing the borders. Hyped up accusations such as what you're throwing around.

The long and short of it is that he flew when he wasn't exhibiting symptoms. The trip was probably planned. He did what most people would do and not cancel and expensive trip. Once he realized he was sick, he went to the hospital and did everything he could to receive help. Accusing him of "fleeing" is beside the point and muddies what happened here.

I'm not a conservative, and I don't know what their rhetoric is.   I'm not throwing around hyped up accusations, I'm using evidence to postulate on human nature.  I think that's ok, as outbreak of contagious disease has everything to do with human behavior. 

[sangria]

Oct 2, 2014 9:06:35 GMT -5 pcelurkerae said:

Thomas Duncan is basically an Ebola refugee. He lived in a city where Ebola was ravaging the population. He called his family and either said "I'm getting the hell out of here!" or "Get me out of here" and he fled to Texas. I would do the same.damn.thing. if I was in a hot zone and either I or my family had the resources to get out.

That being said, he knew he came from Liberia, and he had contact with an ebola infected person. It was incumbent on him and his family to shout that from the rooftops. When he called the ambulance, the family was screaming and shouting and they let him vomit outside. I read a case study of someone who vomited in a restaurant and the blow pattern of the vomit caused something like 8 cases of Ebola.

And we can fuck right off with "the best healthcare system in the world." Because they sent an ebola patient home. Nope, nope. We have excellent medical care if you are diagnosed with ebola. The medical profession will protect itself. But let's not pretend denial and incompetence aren't there in the front lines.

Ok I'm cringing at the vomit blow pattern ::shudder::

But this is interesting info about his reasons for coming here.

Makes you wonder what other Ebola refugees so speak are either here already or in their way here or to Europe etc.

[Michelle]

For the most part I'm going to say up to this point in the thread ditto SBP.

Especially the part about reading the fucking chart.

I do also think the patient should have said oh wait a minute you are discharging me? Did you hear the fact that I just came from Liberia? I've been in contact with ebola patients? But I do also get that he might have been hoping and praying the opposite.

Fwiw The advisory board for healthcare and the CDC are all over this with the hospital communications. Making sure to read the fucking chart is one of the key messages.

Our chief medical officer sent three different communications this week to that effect. He and other leaders are rounding with employees to make sure they got and understand the message.

What is probably going to happen now is every dark skinned person with an African accent is going to have to fight their way out of the hospital if they go with any sort of flu like symptoms. "I promise I am not from Liberia and I have not come in contact with anyone from Liberia!!!! I just have a broken leg!!!" Because no hospital wants to be this Dallas Presbyterian hospital now.

[Deleted]

Dude, I just fundamentally refuse to believe he left that hospital believing he had Ebola.

So I need people to stop saying that.

[Michelle]

Oct 2, 2014 9:54:28 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Dude, I just fundamentally refuse to believe he left that hospital believing he had Ebola.

So I need people to stop saying that.

Ok. (Not sarcasm)

[secretlyevil]

Ummmm...ummmmm...ummmm...

Trying to stay cool, calm and logical but damn they're making it hard.

[pcelurkerae]

Oct 2, 2014 9:54:28 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Dude, I just fundamentally refuse to believe he left that hospital believing he had Ebola.

So I need people to stop saying that.

He was either

1.  Dodged that bullet yippe kay yay!

or

2.  I got the medicine now, i'm good even if I did have it

or remotely

3.  Fuck this incompetent hospital here.  I'll go die at home.

I don't know what he was thinking.   But his family contacted the CDC, so there was some meta knowledge happening within the group.  I can see lots of possibilities.

[teflepi]

Oct 2, 2014 9:28:36 GMT -5 @mx said:

Oct 2, 2014 8:38:44 GMT -5 teflepi said:

I am as well, but 80 is just scary to me. But, I am not really in a bunker so I am glad they are monitoring. I heard something on CNN that he was not asked for travel, at first, history so that does make me nervous. Other than that, I am ok.

In Senegal they monitored more than 200 and there was not a single case identified beyond the index case.

That is good to hear/