my h, the breeziest of the breezy is about to lose his shit on our niece, his brother, and sil. i am partially empathetic but hurt because my daughter is being hurt.
basically, our niece (2.5) is targeting L and is physically aggressive to her. generally, it is just sil and i with the kids and she does NOTHING. i am at a loss because the one time i removed my daughter from the situation i got a ridiculous lecture from my sil. it's getting to the point where my oblivious mil & fil have started to notice and are horrified. when we saw mil last week she couldn't stop talking about how aggressive niece is.
i am at the point where i might literally get in between them, look at my niece and say "i won't let you hit L. you are hurting her." and then removing L. i don't want to overstep though, and i have obviously never been in this situation before. i also don't really want to stop spending time with them because i generally really like my sil and i don't want to not spend time with my nieces. i have to be honest though, this is kind of ruining my relationship with my youngest niece right now. mostly because i have to defend my kid from her which is a weird dynamic. does a 2.5 year old understand that if they keep hitting their cousin, their cousin is not going to play with them?
i think sil is probably embarrassed, but also thinks her child can do no wrong. i have witnessed scenarios where niece is the instigator to her older sister, or is the one who hits her sister, etc. and my sil flat out blames the older one. so while i am trying to be empathetic that it is likely stressful and embarrassing to have the violent kid, i am also pissed at her for not doing anything about it or even apologizing to me for her child's behavior.
examples of some events:
L is sitting on the beach. niece picks up sand, and pushes it into L's face. this is when i got a lecture. i simply picked up L and moved her away to rinse water out of her eye. the only thing i said was "oh, L you have sand in your eye."
L is in a playhouse, where there is a plastic table up against a window. niece is outside playhouse. she reaches in the window, and shoves the table at L. she sees that L is hurt, and continues to hit L with a TABLE repeatedly. my h was right there and stepped in as fast as he could. bil & sil were both there and did NOTHING. i was furious.
L is in a ball pit playing with a ball. niece goes into the ball pit and smacks a ball out of L's hand. she then smacks L in the face three times before my sil removes her.
L is standing a few feet away from niece (who is playing with a different, unrelated toy) chewing on a toy. niece walks over to her and smacks the toy out of her hand/mouth. L walks over and picks up the toy. niece does it again. L makes a noise like "ah!" and goes and picks it up again. niece smacks the toy out again and then pushes L's face. at that point i removed L.
now, the last one i could have moved L right away, because i was right there. but because L was not phased the first two times i let it play out a little more to see if L would walk away or be vocal. she's a very sweet and laid back baby, so she generally doesn't react unless she is really hurt, and then she sobs and comes over to me.
while there is a violent incident every time we see my nieces, the 2.5 year old is always so excited to see us and yells L's name and hugs her when we get there. these incidents are never because L has something niece wants, or because L has done something first.
please tell me what to do. L is so sweet and i don't like seeing someone hurt her
Post by chickens987 on Oct 18, 2014 18:52:44 GMT -5
No. Just no.
DD is sweet and tougher than nails, but if someone is being aggressive towards her to the point of hurting or trying to hurt her I will correct them. And just removing your DD from the situation doesn't do anything to fix things moving forward. I know it's family and it's tricky, but your H needs to have a conversation with his family member (b?) that they need to watch your niece more closely and if they won't step in, you will.
I would parent your niece. I'd use gentle parenting just like if she was a sibling who hit a younger child. Stay calm, get on her level, say 'no hitting' 'use gentle touches only', etc. I would not get angry or confrontational, at all. Kids feed off that energy very badly. And I'd say positive things whenever I saw a positive interaction.
I don't understand the "lectures" you mention. You don't detail them so I can only imagine some weird ass dysfunctional comments. It's possible you are trying too hard to be nice and are letting yourself be a bit of a doormat. Assert yourself. Be forward and don't get cowed into accepting this behavior from your niece. If your SIL gets mad, so be it. She's not parenting well, she should be uncomfortable.
thank you for the very honest answers. every time my h and i talk about this i just end up crying, so i needed some outside feedback to help me pull it together.
i guess i know what we need to do but don't want to make anyone mad. i almost appreciate being called a doormat, because i never am, so that's a good wake up call. family dynamics suck because if this wasn't a family kid i think i'd handle it differently.
i would not and have not reacted to my niece in anger. remaining neutral in situations is definitely a strength for me, so anything i did say would not be emotional. plus, i wouldn't want her to feel shame or like she was "bad."
Wow, that's a tough situation. I know it's family and its a bit harder to navigate, but your daughter should not have to endure getting shoved around all the time. Next time it happens I would say something to the niece. Let them know that L enjoys playing with her but she doesn't (no one does for that matter) enjoy getting hit, shoved, smacked etc. If she continues then your Husband should tell SIL step in or we will.
Post by stealthmom on Oct 18, 2014 19:10:29 GMT -5
Hmmm . . . I'm not sure how I would approach this. My first instinct is to have DH talk w/ BIL and SIL and tell them how difficult it is for you to allow L to play with Niece and that if it continues you'll have to stop it. (Actually my FIRST instinct is to shut it all down and not let them play together anymore, but I know it's not that easy with family.) However, if they think she can do no wrong, I doubt saying something would do anything. Plus you might seriously offend them by confronting them like that.
So then I think maybe @livinitup 's suggestion is the way you should go. But then I think that might quickly get you back to them being offended/pissed off and I'm back to shutting it all down (in a quiet subtle way). The problem is it's difficult to reason with people like this. Sorry.
You've handled it MUCH better than I would have. My son and his cousin love each other but they often get into fights b/c they're so much alike and both cousin's mother and I shut it down quick no matter who is at fault. Fortunately for us they both are at fault at times and it's just normal kid behavior. This stuff from your niece doesn't exactly sound normal to me. I could be wrong on that though.
Post by hopecounts on Oct 18, 2014 19:56:20 GMT -5
When it comes to safety issues it is perfectly OK to step in to protect your kid. That said is could there anything more going on with niece that might be causing SIL to baby her (decelopmental/speech/behavioral) that you aren't privy to? Asking since it sounds like this is out of character/abnormal so wounderung if something is causing them to excuse behavior they shouldn't.
Post by rondonalddo on Oct 18, 2014 20:11:15 GMT -5
This was how things were between my kid and the cousin who is closest to her in age. It was often unprovoked, too-- older cousin would just straight up push her down for no good reason. We just avoided interaction as much as we could and monitored closely when the girls were together. Mostly older cousin has grown out of it now. (DD is 3.5, cousin is 4.5).
Sorry. It sucks, especially since it tends to color your feelings bout your niece (or at least, it did for me, but it's all bound up with my feelings about the rest of my H's family, too...).
People are being nice. I would be your husband in this situation. I wouldn't hesitate to parent your niece. And I would also say something directly to SIL - "you want to step in here?" If that didn't work I would avoid them. I am hard on my kid when it comes to being nice to other kids, and I expect the same from other parents.
L is only a year so self-advocacy isn't really on the table yet. if she were older i definitely have strategies up my sleeve.
i can tell from L's personality that it's something i am going to need to work on with her over time. she's pretty reserved and kind of just takes it until she ends up sobbing (she has a baby friend who is a little rough and likes to grab and pull hair. L handles it the first few times then cries).
I would parent your niece. I'd use gentle parenting just like if she was a sibling who hit a younger child. Stay calm, get on her level, say 'no hitting' 'use gentle touches only', etc. I would not get angry or confrontational, at all. Kids feed off that energy very badly. And I'd say positive things whenever I saw a positive interaction.
I don't understand the "lectures" you mention. You don't detail them so I can only imagine some weird ass dysfunctional comments. It's possible you are trying too hard to be nice and are letting yourself be a bit of a doormat. Assert yourself. Be forward and don't get cowed into accepting this behavior from your niece. If your SIL gets mad, so be it. She's not parenting well, she should be uncomfortable.
This is exactly what I would suggest.
My SIL is extremely hands off. I do parent her kids occasionally and have since before DS was born.
I would parent your niece. I'd use gentle parenting just like if she was a sibling who hit a younger child. Stay calm, get on her level, say 'no hitting' 'use gentle touches only', etc. I would not get angry or confrontational, at all. Kids feed off that energy very badly. And I'd say positive things whenever I saw a positive interaction.
I don't understand the "lectures" you mention. You don't detail them so I can only imagine some weird ass dysfunctional comments. It's possible you are trying too hard to be nice and are letting yourself be a bit of a doormat. Assert yourself. Be forward and don't get cowed into accepting this behavior from your niece. If your SIL gets mad, so be it. She's not parenting well, she should be uncomfortable.
This is exactly what I would suggest.
My SIL is extremely hands off. I do parent her kids occasionally and have since before DS was born.
This.
And no a 2.5yo probably isn't going to understand that she isn't going to get to play with her cousin anymore. At least not in the current dynamic. No one is correcting her behavior. I would always be RIGHT THERE when they're playing. Step in whenever necessary, even preemptively reminding niece to be gentle & praising her for gentle/appropriate behaviors.
Post by Ashley&Scott on Oct 18, 2014 22:24:46 GMT -5
And I don't know what these lectures consisted of, but I would shut them down immediately. It's hard to say exactly how you should respond without know what they said.
Post by DarcyLongfellow on Oct 18, 2014 23:06:35 GMT -5
Yep, I'd parent your niece.
As my oldest has gotten older I've gotten less and less shy about saying things to other people's kids. Sure, you give the parents a chance to say something first. But if a parent isn't parenting and it's a safety issue, then you bet your ass I'll say something to the kid.
Now, I'm not threatening or giving time outs, but I will absolutely say something like, "we share toys with our friends!" or "hands aren't for hitting!" or something like that.
And if your niece repeatedly hurts your child, then leave. And tell the family why you're leaving. You don't have to be mean about it, but just say that since niece can't seem to stop being so aggressive towards your child you're calling it for the day.
You have to be an advocate fir your child. Shut that shit down. I hate hate confrontation but if a kid is attacking my kid, I run up, grab the child's hand off my child and firmly say "no we don't hit" and then I kiss and comfort my child. If your sil doesn't like it, too bad. Your kid can't defend herself so you have to.
Your number one priority is to protect your child and you shouldn't care what any other adult thinks or feels about that. You are parenting appropriately, keeping a close eye on your one year old when a 2.5 year old is around them. I think people are too concerned they will be considered a helicopter parent, but I always say you can't be a helicopter parent to an infant or toddler! You should be close by actually watching them and parenting them when they are in a situation that could be dangerous. I agree with PPs that you should gently correct your niece every time she is playing rough or being aggressive. She is probably jealous and doing it for a reaction plus she has a lack of impulse control, all of which are in the normal realm of 2.5 year old behavior but she does need to learn the right way to behave and play with others, so it doesn't escalate. I wouldn't necessarily have a big talk with SIL / BIL about it yet, but if they criticized my parenting I'd probably give them an earful. Be confident in your parenting, you are doing it well!
This kid is 2 1/2, so while she may be agressive, calling her violent seems a bit over the top.
It's a tough situation, Unless the inlaws are going to step in, avoid being there when she is. I doubt they're going to change if they already are blaming the older child when there's an altercation.
Maybe it's just my teacher personality or my low tolerance for this sort of BS but I'd shut that down ASAP.
She hits your kid with a table? I'd take the table away and say, "L was playing nicely with that. She can have it. When you can listen you can get up and try again. For now let's go take a time out in X spot. When we are done hug and kiss."
Kid needs someone to give her boundaries. Her parents are not. She's looking for them.
As uncomfortable as handling this will be, keep reminding yourself that THEY are the ones in the wrong here. They can be pissed all they want but you should not be embarrassed, ashamed, or hesitant about stepping in. When they get mad, remind yourself that THEY ARE WRONG. and negligent.
Kid needs someone to give her boundaries. Her parents are not. She's looking for them.
i SO agree with this. when i was out with them on friday, after about 2 hours niece was starting to get a bit out of control (in addition to some aggression to L that happened much earlier) . we were in a public play space and she started throwing other toys, pushing kids, etc. sil says that she thinks they need to leave soon because of a toy throwing incident and i did say that niece was probably showing us that she has had enough and needs to go.
last week niece was acting out and my fil was the one who handled it (appropriately) and niece responded very well.
I would need to know what exactly was said in the letter/lecture to have an idea of how you could approach her and keep the relationship ok but deal with the problem. But, if they are just really over-the-top delusional about their kid, it might just be impossible. How did they handle FIL stepping in?
I would need to know what exactly was said in the letter/lecture to have an idea of how you could approach her and keep the relationship ok but deal with the problem. But, if they are just really over-the-top delusional about their kid, it might just be impossible. How did they handle FIL stepping in?
it went (very) similar to this: keep in mind that L was 9 months old when this "conversation" happened, and these incidents started when L was only a couple of months old (began innocently with niece ripping a pacifier out of L's mouth every time we saw niece then progressed quickly to walking up to L and smacking her in the face)
sil: do you think (niece) is aggressive to L? (this was obviously a loaded question!!!)
me (trying to keep peace): she is pretty rough, yes. i don't expect her to have full impulse control though.
sil: well every time we are together you are on niece's case (but she couldn't name one example when i even corrected niece) and she isn't rough at all, she's the sweetest. she doesn't even like seeing you anymore (blatant lie because she gets ridiculously excited to see us). L isn't perfect and you're giving her only child syndrome by stepping in (which is always me moving L away). she needs to learn to defend herself.
me: i don't know that i agree with you, but i will just continue to remove L from the situation and won't say anything to niece. i love niece and i wouldn't want her to not want to see her cousin.
sil continues on until i tell her that i find this conversation hurtful and i need to address it later.
hopefully this explains why i feel i cannot say anything to niece or even to my sil. it's becoming a very uncomfortable situation.
the more i talk about this the less i want to be around them. but my 5 year old niece (the older one) is so awesome and L loves her.
I would need to know what exactly was said in the letter/lecture to have an idea of how you could approach her and keep the relationship ok but deal with the problem. But, if they are just really over-the-top delusional about their kid, it might just be impossible. How did they handle FIL stepping in?
it went (very) similar to this: keep in mind that L was 9 months old when this "conversation" happened, and these incidents started when L was only a couple of months old (began innocently with niece ripping a pacifier out of L's mouth every time we saw niece then progressed quickly to walking up to L and smacking her in the face)
sil: do you think (niece) is aggressive to L? (this was obviously a loaded question!!!)
me (trying to keep peace): she is pretty rough, yes. i don't expect her to have full impulse control though.
sil: well every time we are together you are on niece's case (but she couldn't name one example when i even corrected niece) and she isn't rough at all, she's the sweetest. she doesn't even like seeing you anymore (blatant lie because she gets ridiculously excited to see us). L isn't perfect and you're giving her only child syndrome by stepping in (which is always me moving L away). she needs to learn to defend herself.
me: i don't know that i agree with you, but i will just continue to remove L from the situation and won't say anything to niece. i love niece and i wouldn't want her to not want to see her cousin.
sil continues on until i tell her that i find this conversation hurtful and i need to address it later.
hopefully this explains why i feel i cannot say anything to niece or even to my sil. it's becoming a very uncomfortable situation.
the more i talk about this the less i want to be around them. but my 5 year old niece (the older one) is so awesome and L loves her.
You should be proud of yourself for being so mature in directly telling her the conversation was hurtful (as opposed to flipping out or just sitting there in stunned silence like many of us would do haha).
I'm sorry, that is a boatload of crazy. I totally get wanting to maintain relationships with family, even when that family member has some serious issues. I wish I had better advice than just keep standing up for yourself and child and you'll know when it's just not a workable situation anymore. But she doesn't seem reasonable when it comes to her kid. Good luck.
We have the same issue. My niece is 10 months older than my son and it got very bad for a while. She didn't want my son to play with anything- even stuff she wasn't touching. She was insanely jealous of any attention he got. She's kick him, hit him, scratch him, slam his head into the wall.. and my BIL and SIL did nothing. Then for awhile they tried- they'd make empty threats, remove her, etc. But it didn't help.
It took time. It started being an issue a year ago and it's much better now, but still not great. We tried to keep the peace with BIL and SIL but it failed- they are so weird around us and our son got hurt often. Now we just tell him to tell her to stop, if she does it again we tell her to stop, and if it happens a third time we leave. My BIL and SIL are embarrassed but they don't do much to make it better. It sucks!
Oh, I should add, we too can't say anything to BIL or SIL. They overreact, they storm out, they act like babies honestly. They think our son needs to toughen up. I think their daughter needs to gain control. It's a very hard situation.
To me, the fact that it's your SIL is basically moot.
A child is attacking your child on the regular. If it was just an acquaintance from school, you would stop having play dates. It sucks, but I would do the same here. Your daughter should not be put in harms way because your SIL won't parent.