There's a lot of energy being wasted on Pamela, WTF is she even? There are regulars who post here every day who agree with her, they're just smart enough not to type it out. Let's remember that.
She also doesn't care. I don't "know" her, but I recognize her. More to the point, I know this type. The type who throws out "murder" in this context disingenuously like it ain't no thing, intending it very specifically to be a truth bomb that will rile up the plebians and maybe, just maybe shake some of them loose and into "correct" thinking.
So, I waste no words on her because she will not hear me. Willfully, will not.
Post by schitzengiggles on Oct 22, 2014 11:01:28 GMT -5
I can't even finish this thread before I say... WTF. This whole situation is FUCKED. Every update makes it worse. And W T F to people who are all "Oh, puppies and rainbows and she "should of" (ha) just considered adopting the baby out, unicorns and glitter". Or saying "Blah blah, I wouldn't push it, but I would at least suggest adoption".
No. Don't push things (like the church ladies did). Don't suggest things, don't do anything. Unless you are close to the person and they seek you out, in which case you simply listen, show support regardless of what they decide, and keep your damn mouth shut. Believe what you want, be pro-life. That is fine. Everyone is free to have their beliefs. But DON'T PUSH THEM ON OTHERS!
And a BIG STINKY SIDE EYE to anyone who thinks adoption didn't already cross the mom's mind at some point.
I wonder why the busybodies throwing this shower, little mermaid, and pamela don't have the same amount of self-righteous lecturing and shame to direct at the father in this situation?
According to my mil (we were discussing this this morning when she came to get DD): The father, the woman's now ex-boyfriend, told her to get an abortion. He doesn't have a job, she works part time, they were living in a really crappy studio apartment and after she decided to keep the baby he kicked her out. She's now apparently couch hopping. Neighbor rents out a 1 bedroom apartment behind her house and when the current tenants lease is up apparently woman and baby will go live there, but that is not til april, and she is due in December, so I have no idea where they are supposed to stay during that between time. Her family had already disowned her because boyfriend/baby's father is black and they are racist assholes I guess.
Post by bohemianmango on Oct 22, 2014 11:12:57 GMT -5
That poor woman getting trapped into their cause with such publicity. Where does it go from there? Victorious pro-life/anti-choice 1st birthday party while the mom and child are struggling?
I wouldn't care to be friendly with the host and would give my Pro-choice RSVP.
Thank you for giving me the choice to attend this shower. I emphatically decline this celebration of coercion. That poor woman.
Another murderer checking in. There is no way I could have given up a baby for adoption at my age/place in life. It would have turned a private personal issue into a very public one (I cannot imagine having to explain to everyone I meet why at 31 and otherwise childless I'm giving up the baby I'm pregnant with), and knowing that I could have probably provided a (difficult, modest, but doable) life for the baby would have been way too difficult emotionally for me to go through with it. Not to mention the fact that my asshole, irresponsible, abusive XH wanted to keep the baby so it couldn't even be legally adopted, and there is no way in hell I'm entrusting a child to that man without me around to protect it. Adopting is a wonderful option for many but is not something that should be assumed to be an option for everyone.
The only time when I feel emotionally scarred by my abortion is when I have to hear from assholes about how selfish I am and how I didn't think of my "baby" and committed murder. But I guess the main emotion I feel there is "anger".
I feel bad for the woman in the OP. I hope that the fact that she was able to be convinced to keep the child means that she actually does want to be a mom and will end up being happy with her choice. Plenty of people without financial means make it work, so I hope she can too if that's what she wants.
Post by oregonpachey on Oct 22, 2014 11:16:24 GMT -5
This thread is making me all kinds of angry. As a pro-choice Christian who has had an abortion (I guess I fall in the murderer category) these types of "situations" drive me further and further away from the church. I am pretty sure if this same scenario came up in my church, it would be handled the same. A lot of my extended family feels the same way as this self-righteous neighbor.
No point to this other than to word vomit and show my disgust.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Oct 22, 2014 11:31:21 GMT -5
If I see anyone else tell an infertile person "JUST adopt" or an accidentally fertile person "JUST give it up for adoption" I will literally start kicking over cubicles.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I hope hope hope you've never said IRL any of the bullshit you've spouted in this thread to a woman faced with this extremely difficulty choice. But I'm sure you have.
Acting like this is some blithe, breezy decision for a woman to make is so fucked up. I want to eye poke you both SO HARD right now.
Post by snipsnsnails on Oct 22, 2014 11:52:33 GMT -5
This invitation reminds me of a part of the Bible I was just reading this morning. Jesus is talking about a Pharisee (the "religious right" of the time) and how he prayed in public. "God, I thank you that I am not greedy, dishonest, and unfaithful in marriage like other people. And I am really glad that I am not like that tax collector over there. I go without eating for two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all I earn."
Then Jesus talked about the humble prayer of the tax collector and said the Pharisee did not please the Big Guy. Love doesn't exist in a vacuum and the intentionality of our words (and our hearts) matter. Love's plan is simple: everyone and all the time. Don't complicate it and don't muck it up to force your own agenda, even if you think it's one that is pleasing to the man upstairs.
Hold on, does the invitation tell everyone she got accidentally pregnant but they convinced her to do otherwise? I have so many questions.
The invitation doesn't say she got accidentally pregnant, I believe it says something like "So and So chose life" or some crap like that. I only know her story because a few months ago neighbor told my MIL (who also lives on my street) that she was trying to convivce this woman to keep her child and wanted to know if MIL would bring my DD around to show her how amazing kids are. I was appalled then by the whole thing and also told MIL that there was no way in hell she was bringing my DD to "show off."
This is just horrible that they played on her vulnerability to essentially guilt her into keeping the baby. I'd like to know just what they said to this poor girl in order to convince her to choose to have the baby. If said neighbor had any interactions with me I'd find it hard to hold my tongue about this. They've highlighted basically that this women was going to choose abortion by making it a pro life shower. What horrible human beings.
When I read this my mind went to the article about how pro life clinics disguise themselves as abortion clinics (by being vague and accepting patients for an abortion by telling them to come in and they'd discuss the details. It's there that they guilt the shit out of these women.) This just makes me want to rage.
This is really gross. However I would buy a box of Pampers and send it with your neighbor because that poor woman ( who must feel HORRIFIED) needs all the help she can get at this point. WOW.
That woman and her kid will be taken in by church and she will become one of them.
Lol. Maybe, but not in any way that's actually helpful and only if mom toes their fucked up line.
Yes, exactly. I have seen churches adopt people. They treat them like a pet project, and it has already started, Soliciting free child care. This woman will not be " Jane". She will be " Jane, you know the single mom who is scraping by." It's meddlesome and condescending. Ugh!
I think its gross. I mean they talked her into keeping the baby now they are throwing her a shower and my god this poor woman. I wouldn't go, participate anything. I would actually talk to this poor woman. I would let her know its her body, her choice and to not let anyone bully her into having the baby.
Hey pamela, if a women experiences a miscarriage, do you down grade your judgement to Manslaughter? What is your suggested jail term for that?
Natural death. When someone randomly dies is it manslaughter? No.
And removing a clump of cells that must leech from a person to survive is not murder.
You said abortion = murder. A miscarriage is form of abortion. Or are you just drawing this convenient line (where you ignore the actual meaning of words) so you don't have to admit you're guilty of manslaughter?
Hey pamela, if a women experiences a miscarriage, do you down grade your judgement to Manslaughter? What is your suggested jail term for that?
Natural death. When someone randomly dies is it manslaughter? No.
How can you rule out manslaughter without a thorough investigation of the mitigating factors (Was she drinking heavily? Eating gluten? Did she cause a wreck leading to her loss?) surrounding the mother? How could a woman who drove drunk while knowing she is pregnant, cause an accident leading to the loss of the child not be involuntary manslaughter if abortion=murder?
I never said easy. But it's easier than murder. It's still an emotional toll, but guess what, emotions get involved after a life is created. No way around it. But that part is done, so how are you going to handle the 2nd life now? No solution is going to be easy.
You think it's murder. So...what's the appropriate penalty for abortion? Death penalty? Life in prison? Against the woman or the doctor or both? Explain how you will investigate the cause of a miscarriage.
I am truly interested in your answers, so you probably won't bother to reply.
pamela - I really am curious for your answers to my questions.
Post by ClosingTime08 on Oct 22, 2014 14:43:32 GMT -5
That poor woman and baby....My mother was going to abort me (and I know this is going to totally get turned around on me by staunch pro-lifers) but was guilted into having me (also don't ask how I know this because that's a longs story). Anyway, I KNEW my whole life I was unwanted...I could FEEL being unwanted. I never got hugged or kissed by my mother, never fully loved by my mother and we were dirt poor. Do you know HOW BAD that fucked me up in life? Do you know what it feels like to know you were never wanted? What's pissing me off more is that I am going to get BUT you're alive and look at all you've done and blah blah blah.... There were many times life would have been easier had I not been born. I don't even know if I am making sense because this whole thing is pissing me off (abortion is murder and you must put the child's needs before your own)...ugh
ETA..I don't know why I threw in the dirt poor thing, I think it was because I was always last when it came to them and they never bought me things I needed, etc.
"You. You and your crazy life. You and your geographic anomaly. You and your drunken lesbianic ways and terrible navigational skills." - ProfArt and her holy baby