White Woman Privilege

[Deleted]

I am doing my part to make you all Awesomely Luvvie fans, I know but really, she read me some truth today and I'm gonna share it wrt: Renee Zellweger's face.

But NOOOO don’t come for the prototype of the Damsel in Distress. Don’t you dare criticize a white woman or the word “bullying” might get thrown at you real quick and everyone will run to play Captain-Save-A-She. Because at the intersection of racism and sexism is white woman privilege. And while some feel like they’re dismantling one system, they’re upholding another.

The rest of the article is www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2014/10/renee-zellweger-new-face.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Luvvie+%28Awesomely+Luvvie%29 


It has plenty of gifs to amuse you. Go read and then come back and discuss please.

[josieposy]

I'm just posting to say I read it.

Good stuff!

[wrathofkuus]

This isn't a great justification for why the Amanda Marcotte etc. pieces on why our talking about RZ's face is bullshit are, well, bullshit. Not at all. It's a bunch of "hey, you're okay with women of color being under this scrutiny". Isn't that the problem, though, that women of color don't get our outrage and protection like they should, not that the way women of color are treated is standard and we should treat white women shittier to match?

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2014 21:53:04 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

This isn't a great justification for why the Amanda Marcotte etc. pieces on why our talking about RZ's face is bullshit are, well, bullshit. Not at all. It's a bunch of "hey, you're okay with women of color being under this scrutiny". Isn't that the problem, though, that women of color don't get our outrage and protection like they should, not that the way women of color are treated is standard and we should treat white women shittier to match?

Yeah I don't agree that she's saying we should treat white women shittier only that it's damned rich for people to wave their finger in people's faces for noticing that RZ looks markedly different from the way she used to when other women are ragged on all day long.

Also, the answer imo isn't that we should all sit here and pretend it isn't happening but have a good long talk about what the fuck kind of society we are participating in that Renee felt the need to do all this.

That being said, I think Renee is unique among white woman Hollywood plastic surgery seekers in that she wasn't trying to look younger. She was trying to fit a standardized beauty mold that she couldn't obtain despite being thin and white. I think that's kind of a unique conversation than say perhaps what Nicole Kidman has done.

[wrathofkuus]

That is an interesting conversation, bit I don't think it invalidates the conversation about why anyone would even expect to look at her 15ish years after Bridget Jones and see basically the sane thing.

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2014 22:31:41 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

That is an interesting conversation, bit I don't think it invalidates the conversation about why anyone would even expect to look at her 15ish years after Bridget Jones and see basically the sane thing.

You'd have a point if Renee looked older, larger, grayer, or any combination thereof that merely indicated the normal or even a little abnormal course of aging. 

[NitaX]

Oct 22, 2014 22:42:25 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Oct 22, 2014 22:31:41 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

That is an interesting conversation, bit I don't think it invalidates the conversation about why anyone would even expect to look at her 15ish years after Bridget Jones and see basically the sane thing.

You'd have a point if Renee looked older, larger, grayer, or any combination thereof that merely indicated the normal or even a little abnormal course of aging. 

Right. She doesn't look like she's aged. She looks like she went under the knife and they went way left on what was supposed to happen to her face. I had to do a doubletake - like dayum? WTH happened here. It's not the same as everyone going "Jasmine Guy is aging horribly." The immediate thought for Renee is - Who Fucked Up Her Plastic Surgery.

[elleblue]

Right? I want to know why people are rushing in with the "oh but she just looks rested", as if that explains away her obvious eye surgery. 

And look, I don't mean to criticize. I find it sad that RZ felt she needed to go to such drastic measures. It's sad commentary on the expectations placed on women, especially women in Hollywood. But it's not natural to act as if nothing has really changed. 

I have more to say on this but needless to say, I did agree with many points in this article and found myself nodding along the whole time. 

Eta: I did appreciate the shout out to Kenny Rogers. She could have included Wayne Newton in that - that man has looked closer to an animated wax statute for the last couple of decades. 

[summer]

I just don't see how we are not supposed to talk about someone obviously completely changing their face.

We should definitely be continuing to have that conversation about why people feel compelled to do so, or the sexism or ageism of our media culture, but it is a giant elephant in the room for a major star to look completely different one day and we just not mention it.

[iammalcolmx]

In a world that does a piss poor job of protecting women and keeping us safe, when it does choose to fight for women, it’s usually for white women only. The rest of us can go fend for ourselves because STRONG BLACK WOMAN and SPICY LATINA WOMAN are tropes used to dehumanize us, excusing the bad treatment we receive. Because we can handle it, right?

[ttt]

I don't have a problem with people noticing that she looks different. She obviously does. But I have a problem with the fact that she was criticized and made fun of for years because her eyes were too squinty, so now she goes and changes that, and everybody makes fun of her for changing it.

Basically, everything that this piece says: 

www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/21/ren_e_zellweger_plastic_surgery_in_hollywood_women_over_40_get_a_new_face.html

I am really baffled at how this somehow became a race issue, though. 

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 23, 2014 7:39:31 GMT -5 ttt said:

I am really baffled at how this somehow became a race issue, though. 

Because when women of color do stuff like this and some folks are like:



Most people go:



But I guess when people saw Renee's new look and questioned it, people were like:

[ttt]

Oct 23, 2014 8:01:32 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Oct 23, 2014 7:39:31 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't have a problem with people noticing that she looks different. She obviously does. But I have a problem with the fact that she was criticized and made fun of for
years because her eyes were too squinty, so now she goes and changes that, and everybody makes fun of her for changing it.

Basically, everything that this piece says: 

www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/21/ren_e_zellweger_plastic_surgery_in_hollywood_women_over_40_get_a_new_face.html

I am really baffled at how this somehow became a race issue, though. 

Did you read the piece or are you just responding to the comments in the thread?

No I read the piece - it didn't give any examples of something similar happening to a woman of color so I don't see how you can compare. White people don't like Kim Kardashian? Okay but I don't see how that's really relevant. Does anybody really like kim kardashian? White people aren't defending Nicki Minaj - maybe this is a fair point, I don't really know if she drastically changed her appearance, was criticized and then nobody defended her. What if Angela Bassett photos were leaked? A hypothetical and on an entirely different issue.

[ttt]

Oct 23, 2014 8:09:58 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Oct 23, 2014 7:39:31 GMT -5 ttt said:

I am really baffled at how this somehow became a race issue, though. 

Because when women of color do stuff like this and some folks are like:



Most people go:



But I guess when people saw Renee's new look and questioned it, people were like:

Who did this? I don't really keep up with celebrity news so if there have been famous women of color drastically changing their faces I probably wouldn't have heard about it anyway.

[ttt]

Oct 23, 2014 8:38:36 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Oct 23, 2014 8:31:32 GMT -5 ttt said:

No I read the piece - it didn't give any examples of something similar happening to a woman of color so I don't see how you can compare. White people don't like Kim Kardashian? Okay but I don't see how that's really relevant. White people aren't defending Nicki Minaj - maybe this is a fair point, I don't really know if she drastically changed her appearance, was criticized and then nobody defended her. What if Angela Bassett photos were leaked? A hypothetical and on an entirely different issue.

So her point that feminists haven't jumped to Lil' Kim's defense when the many many many articles and jokes and stuff are made about her ever changing face and screamed bullying and shut up wasn't valid?

OR are you saying that you don't see this is a racial issue so shut up Luvvie and anyone else who might think she has a point? Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to make sure I understand you.

I'm not telling anyone to shut up and I'm not saying her point isn't valid. I'm saying that I didn't really follow it and it baffled me how saying criticizing someone for caving to pressure over her looks was a race issue. But as I said, I don't really follow celebrity news so maybe if I did it would make more sense.

[NitaX]

Oct 23, 2014 8:25:10 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I hadn't heard the bullying stuff and I did get a little miffed that Renee thought she had to explain herself to anyone, BUT to the pp who said we expected her to look the same after 15 years, I give you this People slider which shows her from 2012 and now. I didn't expect her to look like she did 15 years ago -- yes, people age -- but she does look drastically different from two years ago and that was surprising and yes it drew comments.

www.nbclosangeles.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/Renee-Zellweger-plastic-surgery-new-look-People-280028292.html

As for Luvvie's points, I hadn't considered any of that, mostly because I hadn't been aware that people were accusing folks of bullying her and whatnot, but nothing I read in that post seems to suggest we should treat white women like shit because brown women are treated like shit. My take away was that the same care and concern given to the Renees should be extended to all women.

You mean like those nude photos that got leaked when folks were all up in arms about the white women (Jennifer Lawrence) but folks were like Jesus on the Cross and ain't say a mumblin' word when Jill Scott's photos were leaked?

[Deleted]

Isn't this all closely tied to what we're always talking about here where missing white girls become national news and missing black girls are local news for a day or two?

No one is saying everyone should be bullied equally.  She does have a point when she says everyone should be respected equally.

[secretlyevil]

Oct 23, 2014 7:35:22 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Bullying? Really? OK.

Someone, especially someone who leads a very public life, ::cough celebrity:: who makes that drastic of a change and then gets miffed when we're all WTF did you do to your beautiful self? Would also get miffed if there wasn't a peep about it. This is not bullying.

Yes, I know my sentence structure above is atrocious.

[laurenpetro]

i was kind of back and forth about agreeing with the piece since it's basically arguing a hypothetical since, as i have learned on here, black don't crack.

but i will say i was 1000% on board with this part:

When the nudes of Jennifer Lawrence leaked, folks jumped to her rescue (rightfully), but I did wonder if Angela Bassett’s leaked, if she’d get the same enthusiastic defense. Because sometimes, white women are treated like Faberge eggs while the rest of us are like iPad 2s with the cases on them. *throws across the room* Oh it’ll be alright


i can't picture angel bassett needing backup if that happened as i picture her taking care of shit her own way (cue flaming car) but yes, this part was spot on.

[laurenpetro]

also, people are defending RZ? i've only heard the "she's TOTALLY had plastc surgery! stoy lying about it!!!" bandwagon.

maybe i just hang with bitches?

[zelda25]

My thoughts, in no particular order:

1) I've only seen one article/"thinkpiece" that chastised folks for being all "WTeverlovingF happened?" re: RZ. I mean, we can and should have all kinds of conversations about why women and Kenny Rogers feel compelled to fuck themselves up like that, but that's not what this is about and I get that.  I think most people--white people included--look at the RZ thing just like Luvvie does; no one is losing sleep over it, but holy hell  :?

2) I'm not going to pretend that white celebrities aren't looked at/treated differently than non-white celebrities. That's just stupid and we all know it.

3) I don't disagree that white feminists who are inclined to write hand-wringing thinkpieces for Salon about the plight of actresses who feel compelled to ruin their faces are not likely to cry over black actresses doing the same, and yes--that's some bullshit.  I think the disconnect is that women like Lil' Kim and Kim Kardashian (ESPECIALLY KK) are as famous for over-the-top weirdness as they are for anything else. So when I see one of those two after yet another humanity-defying surgical procedure, it strikes me first as just another part of their schtick.  Feeling bad for them that they feel like they have to do that shit would come way later, if at all.  

Now, if Angela Bassett showed up somewhere looking like someone else--that would warrant the same reaction that RZ and Nicole Kidman get for their tomfoolery. The problem is that we probably wouldn't see it because non-white actresses don't get that much attention, and Salon would not be publishing editorials about how awful it is that Angela Bassett fucked up her face.  So, yeah--Luvvie is right.

[heyjude]

Almost every article I read about RZ was just plain old incredulousness to downright mockery. I think I saw one solitary article defending her. I feel like if Holly Berry suddenly showed up with a new face (assuming she could age or she had some peculiar face structure that needed fixing a la RZ's squint) the media reaction would be largely the same.

[heyjude]

Oct 23, 2014 11:52:30 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Oct 23, 2014 11:49:43 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Almost every article I read about RZ was just plain old incredulousness to downright mockery. I think I saw one solitary article defending her. I feel like if Holly Berry suddenly showed up with a new face (assuming she could age or she had some peculiar face structure that needed fixing a la RZ's squint) the media reaction would be largely the same.

Wait hang on a squint is a peculiar face structure that needs fixing? WTF?

Well that's what RZ did to her face. She corrected her squint. At least that's how the articles I read described her change.

[laurenpetro]

Oct 23, 2014 11:56:26 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Oct 23, 2014 11:54:11 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Well that's what RZ did to her face. She corrected her squint. At least that's how the articles I read described her change.

Yes she stopped her eyes from squinting. I am WTFing your language.

"Peculiar face structure that needs fixing" "corrected her squint".

well, to her it did.  i wouldn't have touched it but apparently she felt it needed fixing.

[heyjude]

Oct 23, 2014 11:56:26 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Oct 23, 2014 11:54:11 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Well that's what RZ did to her face. She corrected her squint. At least that's how the articles I read described her change.

Yes she stopped her eyes from squinting. I am WTFing your language.

"Peculiar face structure that needs fixing" "corrected her squint".

You are reading a sentiment into my language that is not there for some reason and I don't appreciate it.

RZ had a unique face. Many people commented on it in her decade+ in Hollywood. There was nothing wrong with it. It was her trademark. She got rid of it. All I'm saying is that if Holly Berry did the same thing, and assuming she had some similar trademark feature or she was trying to halt the aging process, I think the media would have the same reaction. I'm trying to compare apples to apples.

[eclaires]

I haven't read the article linked yet but what I don't understand about RZ is why she didn't just own that she had her eyelids fixed. If she would have said that, no one would even care. I mean they might comment that she looks different but if you have eyes like hers, it's a legit medical issue eventually. Maybe she had hers fixed sooner than necessary, but my grandma had the same issue and her insurance covered it because eventually it would make her unable to see and it was already hindering her sight.

She probably had other shit done, but that's the most noticeable and obvious. Plus it's a legit medical issue. So why not admit to that? Seems dumb to me.

[NitaX]

Oct 23, 2014 12:10:35 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I haven't read the article linked yet but what I don't understand about RZ is why she didn't just own that she had her eyelids fixed. If she would have said that, no one would even care. I mean they might comment that she looks different but if you have eyes like hers, it's a legit medical issue eventually. Maybe she had hers fixed sooner than necessary, but my grandma had the same issue and her insurance covered it because eventually it would make her unable to see and it was already hindering her sight.

She probably had other shit done, but that's the most noticeable and obvious. Plus it's a legit medical issue. So why not admit to that? Seems dumb to me.

Right. I mean it's like if Forest Whitaker had his eyes done and said "Nah. I ain't had work done."

*grabs her Oreos and goes to the corner*

[heyjude]

Oct 23, 2014 12:06:26 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Oct 23, 2014 12:01:53 GMT -5 heyjude said:

You are reading a sentiment into my language that is not there for some reason and I don't appreciate it.

RZ had a unique face. Many people commented on it in her decade+ in Hollywood. There was nothing wrong with it. It was her trademark. She got rid of it. All I'm saying is that if Holly Berry did the same thing, and assuming she had some similar trademark feature or she was trying to halt the aging process, I think the media would have the same reaction. I'm trying to compare apples to apples.

I wouldn't have read into it if you had said unusual feature however peculiar face structure that needs fixing does sound pejorative whether that was your intent or not.

Your commentary is becoming peculiar. I'm not interested in a semantical do-si-do over an off hand parenthetical comment.

[heyjude]

Oct 23, 2014 12:10:35 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I haven't read the article linked yet but what I don't understand about RZ is why she didn't just own that she had her eyelids fixed. If she would have said that, no one would even care. I mean they might comment that she looks different but if you have eyes like hers, it's a legit medical issue eventually. Maybe she had hers fixed sooner than necessary, but my grandma had the same issue and her insurance covered it because eventually it would make her unable to see and it was already hindering her sight.

She probably had other shit done, but that's the most noticeable and obvious. Plus it's a legit medical issue. So why not admit to that? Seems dumb to me.

I thought she sort of did?

"I wasn't happy with how I looked so I fixed it, so STFU about it already." (paraphrase)

[eclaires]

My stupid phone won't open the article so I will return later after I make it home and can open it on my laptop.