Would you feel ok sending your child to a declining school?

[polarbearfans]

I would break it down a bit to understand why the school was rated that way. My hometown school got bad "grades" but we had some great teachers who made all the difference for those who wanted it. My hometown has a lot of lower income families, and school was not valued for many. So many dropped out as soon as they could.

[kaybee85]

A lot of private schools in Florida suck, too, so I'd probably try to figure out a way to make the 20 min drive work while also applying for charter/magnet schools.

Is moving an option? I don't know if you own or rent and what kind of affordable housing is located where better schools are is available.

[kaybee85]

Oct 24, 2014 5:49:46 GMT -5 polarbearfans said:

I would break it down a bit to understand why the school was rated that way. My hometown school got bad "grades" but we had some great teachers who made all the difference for those who wanted it. My hometown has a lot of lower income families, and school was not valued for many. So many dropped out as soon as they could.

This was my first thought, not the fact that local teachers also warned against it would give me pause. I might ask follow up questions as to why the teacher feels that way.

[stellas]

Catholic schools provide need based tuition cuts. Do you have one near you? You can also work for the schools for tuition breaks.

W's school schedule wouldn't be a concern for me, personally. I'd just find a preschool near x's school for him.

[irishbride2]

Go to FCIS. They are the best resource for information about florida independent schools. You might be able to get real data about scholarships and such at non religious schools in the area. If you can't, let me know and I can dig from the other side. I don't know how much info they make public.

[lilybug]

Depending on the reason for the low rating, I'd be okay with it. D's school is not highly rated, but it's because the student population is majorly low SES and parental involvement is basically nil. I feel like I can mitigate most of that for him.

That said, overcrowding would be one of the few issues that would make me transfer for elementary. It would be worth it, for me, to switch my younger one's daycare, too, just to get D to a less crowded school. I hope everything works in your favor with the phone conference.

[rupertpenny]

What doe your district middle school and high school look like? I think I would be more worried about that in the long run. I went to a kind of crappy elementary school but a decent high school and I think that is better than the other way around.

Anyway, are you in Orange County? I haven't lived there in a while, but I think there are some affordable areas with decent schools. And I wouldn't rely on grades too much, I said I went to a good HS but I think it was actually a C school (I went to Boone). In any case I got a good education there.

My brother is in middle school right now and my mom chose to send him to Catholic school (St. John Vianney). My mom is Catholic, so the religion stuff isn't an issue for her, but I don't think it is actually a huge focus for the school, at least not at the expense of academics. He is getting a really good education and I know the tuition is VERY reasonable. I would rather die than send my kid to Bishop Moore, but I think there are good options for K-8.

[dragonfly08]

When we first moved to this state, we chose a house based on a combination of factors including school performance at the time, on paper.

After three years in that house we realized the schools were in decline. Test scores had dropped at the high school. The middle school hadn't met state learning standards two years in a row and was on probation. The elementary school was the best of the bunch but still under performing. Fortunately, DD #1 was still in private preschool at the time, and we kept her there through K while we made plans.

The summer between K and 1st grade, we moved. The district we wanted was expensive and to afford it, we made the choice to buy a foreclosure in horrendous shape that 5 1/2 years later we're still working on. But my kids (now 2nd and 6th graders) are thriving in an amazing school system and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.  

ETA - I will say that we had no other options...private school was not something we could afford for two kids, and there were no choices in that county at that level for placing my kids in a school outside of our boundaries.  It was the poor schools or move, and we chose to move.

[rupertpenny]

Oct 24, 2014 6:15:49 GMT -5 @smace said:

Oct 24, 2014 6:12:26 GMT -5 lilybug said:

Depending on the reason for the low rating, I'd be okay with it. D's school is not highly rated, but it's because the student population is majorly low SES and parental involvement is basically nil. I feel like I can mitigate most of that for him.

That said, overcrowding would be one of the few issues that would make me transfer for elementary. It would be worth it, for me, to switch my younger one's daycare, too, just to get D to a less crowded school. I hope everything works in your favor with the phone conference.

same with this school, but they had this same demographic all the years they got "A"s so I don't know how much the student body really matters with this huge drop. 

I get fluctuations and such, but this is a damn cliff-drop decline.

I am far from an expert in how this works, but I think schools have to show marked improvement just to maintain their letter grade. So really, things could be the same as they where when the school got an A and just not any better and that would contribute to the lower grade. 

[Stingyshark]

We are in a similar situation with the school DD would be zoned for; except that we have at least 4 years before she goes to school. It's currently a D school, last year was a C school, and the 5 yrs prior it was a B school.

We have our house on the market, but nothing is happening so we decided we will stay for a few more years, and try to sell again before DD goes to school; unless the schools start to get better, which, I doubt.

[Deleted]

Apply for all charters you can. And then apply for scholarships for private.

But just because you go private doesn't automatically mean a great education. Either way you will have to be really involved.

[Jalapeñomel]

I would do everything I could to avoid it, but there is only so much you can do.

[lilybug]

Oct 24, 2014 6:15:49 GMT -5 @smace said:

Oct 24, 2014 6:12:26 GMT -5 lilybug said:

same with this school, but they had this same demographic all the years they got "A"s so I don't know how much the student body really matters with this huge drop. 

I get fluctuations and such, but this is a damn cliff-drop decline.

I don't know the ins and outs of your area, but here's what's happening with my hood. The percentage of free lunch has stayed the same, but the poor are poorer than they were a few years ago - housing prices in town are soaring, the lower middle class are moving to the suburbs where they can get better houses for the money, so the people who are left are living in crappy apartments or cramming ten people into a modest 3 bedroom.

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2014 6:28:56 GMT -5 @smace said:

Oct 24, 2014 6:26:54 GMT -5 @lazerus24 said:

Apply for all charters you can. And then apply for scholarships for private.

But just because you go private doesn't automatically mean a great education. Either way you will have to be really involved.

Yes, I know. I'm very involved in preschool, to the point where teachers joke if I want a job there. lol. 

My mother was a teacher, so it's ingrained into me that education is not just a teacher's job. But I want the best school possible for him too, in addition to the work I do with him. 

That came off way holier than thou - and I didn't mean it that way I promise. Lol.

We just went through this. Our school just recently went from an a to a c. I applied to a million alternative schools and we finally got into a charter. It requires a ton of parent involvement. And I wonder - if I am this involved here - I prob could have been this involved at the "c" school and maybe he would have been fine.

I dunno. This is all new to me.

[rupertpenny]

Oct 24, 2014 6:27:29 GMT -5 @smace said:

Oct 24, 2014 6:18:09 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

What doe your district middle school and high school look like? I think I would be more worried about that in the long run. I went to a kind of crappy elementary school but a decent high school and I think that is better than the other way around.

Anyway, are you in Orange County? I haven't lived there in a while, but I think there are some affordable areas with decent schools. And I wouldn't rely on grades too much, I said I went to a good HS but I think it was actually a C school (I went to Boone). In any case I got a good education there.

My brother is in middle school right now and my mom chose to send him to Catholic school (St. John Vianney). My mom is Catholic, so the religion stuff isn't an issue for her, but I don't think it is actually a huge focus for the school, at least not at the expense of academics. He is getting a really good education and I know the tuition is VERY reasonable. I would rather die than send my kid to Bishop Moore, but I think there are good options for K-8.

None of the schools are all that great but not awful. Lee Middle (C's 3 years in a row, fluctuate between B and C historically) and Edgewater High (Which is all over the map, grade wise)

Again, I've been out if the area for awhile, but Edgewater is a good school. At least it CAN be a good school. I know plenty of people who went to Lee and Edgewater who got good educations. I know it is hard though. Public schools in Orlando can definitely be iffy, but the private options aren't really anything to write home about either. I really think your child's personality and your level of involvement are going to be the most important variables.

[cville]

I am not in this position, but several of my friends are. And I've been monitoring them because while the schools where we are are very well regarded, there has been some movement lately and rabble-rousing about things.   Plus I've seen "good" schools go bad (and vice versa) quickly.

One sent her kid to the "bad" school for a year and then moved. Full on moved out, rented a house in a better zone, and rented out their house because they couldn't sell. They're in a much smaller place and losing about $10/month on the operation, but she says it's so worth it. The teacher was good the year they were at the bad school, but everything else was a shitshow.

One got her kid into a charter by the skin of her teeth. Her husband is self-employed, so he handles the INTENSE parental commitment requirements. They were going to send their kids to private school if they hadn't gotten into the charter (they can afford it, barely).

The last sent her kid to the "bad" school and as it turns out it's been a great experience. Their ratings drop apparently was related to a past administration's shady shenanigans with testing. In any event, there was a giant clearing out of the shenanigan inducers and everyone now is on their VERY BEST behavior, so it's turned out very well. She was comfortable doing that because she knew the reason why the drop had happened.

[readyin07]

Argh. I wrote out a long post and it got eaten.

We were in this dilemma (we're in Florida too). We moved here 9 years ago to be in an A school district with an excellent reputation. It is now a C. There was a demographic shift that runs parallel to this decline. We are Title I with a high free & reduced lunch population and a very high ESOL population. The FCATS have been killers for these schools.

What do friends and neighbors who have first hand experience say? Do you know teachers in the district with some insider knowledge? I know in our case, people who we trusted were still very positive about the school so we chose to send him there with eyes wide open. We can also school choice into a school that isn't at capacity...we may still do that if we move b/c I don't like the school we'll be zoned for. The downside for me was that you could go to that school if it was open until 5th grade and then if it all of a sudden filled up (new community or neighborhood being built or whatever) then too bad for you. Also no guarantees for siblings.

I really do believe the Florida school grading system is broken. There are GREAT teachers at poorly performing schools and I will be the jerk who says it but if you are a good, involved parent you will get those teachers. My friend's daughter goes to an F school and she couldn't be happier with it. It is 80% free and reduced lunch. Her teachers are great teachers working in a difficult environment. She is a smart girl and gets extra enrichment and her mom is really involved so it's a big fish small pond type of thing.

In our area private isn't an option. It's a small county with a few religious-based schools, one Montessori and one college prep school. I personally find the religious based schools to offer no better academics to warrant sending my child there. And at $20k++ / year the Montessori and college prep schools aren't going to be an option for us so public it is. My kid's education is one area that gives me such stress and guilt. I am pretty snotty about education. I went to a small private prep school with rigorous educational standards. There was no adjustment going into college because I was used to high expectations and standards (I was seriously shocked that people could cut class in high school or that if you were over 18 you could sign yourself out..that would never fly at my private school). But my friends who did IB programs and other magnets in high school had similar experiences to me so it's something I feel like I just have to stay on top of on a year by year basis.

[readyin07]

I am assuming his VPK is private? Honestly, I wouldn't take a huge amount of stock in that teacher's opinion unless she for some reason has a lot of insight into the school or the district.

[karmasabiotch]

If there aren't any options then you become your child's biggest advocate and work with his teacher, and with with him at home on the what he should be learning He can rise above a bad school with involved parents.

[readyin07]

Oct 24, 2014 8:46:58 GMT -5 @smace said:

Oct 24, 2014 8:39:00 GMT -5 readyin07 said:

Argh. I wrote out a long post and it got eaten.

We were in this dilemma (we're in Florida too). We moved here 9 years ago to be in an A school district with an excellent reputation. It is now a C. There was a demographic shift that runs parallel to this decline. We are Title I with a high free & reduced lunch population and a very high ESOL population. The FCATS have been killers for these schools.

What do friends and neighbors who have first hand experience say? Do you know teachers in the district with some insider knowledge? I know in our case, people who we trusted were still very positive about the school so we chose to send him there with eyes wide open. We can also school choice into a school that isn't at capacity...we may still do that if we move b/c I don't like the school we'll be zoned for. The downside for me was that you could go to that school if it was open until 5th grade and then if it all of a sudden filled up (new community or neighborhood being built or whatever) then too bad for you. Also no guarantees for siblings.

I really do believe the Florida school grading system is broken. There are GREAT teachers at poorly performing schools and I will be the jerk who says it but if you are a good, involved parent you will get those teachers. My friend's daughter goes to an F school and she couldn't be happier with it. It is 80% free and reduced lunch. Her teachers are great teachers working in a difficult environment. She is a smart girl and gets extra enrichment and her mom is really involved so it's a big fish small pond type of thing.

In our area private isn't an option. It's a small county with a few religious-based schools, one Montessori and one college prep school. I personally find the religious based schools to offer no better academics to warrant sending my child there. And at $20k++ / year the Montessori and college prep schools aren't going to be an option for us so public it is. My kid's education is one area that gives me such stress and guilt. I am pretty snotty about education. I went to a small private prep school with rigorous educational standards. There was no adjustment going into college because I was used to high expectations and standards (I was seriously shocked that people could cut class in high school or that if you were over 18 you could sign yourself out..that would never fly at my private school). But my friends who did IB programs and other magnets in high school had similar experiences to me so it's something I feel like I just have to stay on top of on a year by year basis.

Are you orange County? I was just told our only "school choice" was magnet /charter but was lead to believe he can go to any school that is not at capacity. But the head lady said no.

No, not Orange. We actually don't have magnets or charters, at least in Elementary.  Have you looked at this website ?  www.floridaschoolchoice.org/Information/vpsc

If you are truly borderline poor lol, there are private school scholarships. And if he needs any kind of accommodation he could also qualify for a Mackay, but you have to attend public school for one year. A friend has a child at a private school on Mackay and he receives speech therapy for a very minor issue and still qualifies, you don't need a particularly special diagnosis.

I don't love the voucher  program, but you gotta do what is best for your kid.

[redheadk]

I just skimmed so I don't know if this was mentioned as a possibility but did the tests used to score schools change during the time period you are looking at? I'm in TX and we switched from TAKS to STAAR, which is more rigorous, and the accountability rubric has changed, too. TX and FL tend to do the same things wrt school testing so it could be that the testing itself is just different.

Regardless, poor leadership and inability to keep teachers would seriously concern me and I would be looking at options myself.

ETA: I agree with trying to talk to teachers who teach at the school or at least in the district. I would not really trust the opinion of teachers from surrounding districts, they are just going gossip for the most part.

[Jermys]

Parental involvement makes a huge difference. And X is smart. I wouldn't worry about it!

[redheadk]

Oct 24, 2014 9:40:24 GMT -5 @smace said:

Oct 24, 2014 9:29:04 GMT -5 cjoy said:

I don't know that our school is declining, but it's not good on paper. It ranks pretty low. BUT we have awesome teachers, the administration cares, and the community is involved. That makes all the difference.

This school has none of that. When speaking with the superintendent, he didn't blast the teachers bbut kept saying they were struggling. He did say there was a large lack in parent involvment and that they keeo changing the administration so "give it one more year." But then he also said he doesn't blame me and he moved his own family for the same concerns I have.

Given this, I wouldn't send my child there. 

[cville]

Hey, this just occurred to me. One of my friends is in way upper level admin (superintendent level; she's not the superintendent) of a school system that is troubled. It also has a far worse reputation than it deserves, in large part because the children in the system as a whole are very socioeconomically disadvantaged and people like to use that (and, quite frankly, race) as a proxy for "bad" schools.

Nonetheless, she sends her kid to the schools there (by choice; she could send her kid to private school) and has VERY strong opinions on what makes a "good" school (and letter rankings and the average income of the parents don't factor in them). I'll ask her what SHE'D ask about a school in order to get comfortable.

It may take awhile because she's on maternity leave, but I'll post here when I find out.

[fuckyourcouch]

No, because I went to a declining school and it was seriously ridiculous. I know that's probably not helpful, but given my experience I would not want to do that with my kids.

[fuckyourcouch]

Although I do think the teachers and administration can make a huge difference. My school system did not even have that going for it. I am not on team "my precious is the most precious" but I would look into all the alternatives I could make work.

[karinothing]

Is it just rated based on test scores? Have the demographics of the school changed recently? I.E. are they getting an influx of ESL students? Or lower income students?

The school in our neighborhood is rated low on great schools, but it is a largely african american school and there are some inherent issues with standardized testing and minority students. I hear great things about the school from other parents. That being said, I am not entirely sure DS will go there becuase I think I will want him to go to a spanish immersion school.

[racegrrl714]

Oct 24, 2014 5:46:03 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

look for a private school that offers financial aid/scholarships, and consider Catholic schools if you are willing to join the church (or even not; they really do have a lot of good schools and have decent aid for people who can't pay)

This is exactly what we did in these shoes, when our kids started out. Many private schools have free or very reduced tuition, please look into it.

This. Good luck!

[dd1204]

There's an organization that helps students in Florida pay for private school. It's income base. Hope it can help you.

Stepupforstudents.org

[Mrs. ChanandlerBong]

Oct 24, 2014 9:40:24 GMT -5 @smace said:

Oct 24, 2014 9:29:04 GMT -5 cjoy said:

I don't know that our school is declining, but it's not good on paper. It ranks pretty low. BUT we have awesome teachers, the administration cares, and the community is involved. That makes all the difference.

This school has none of that. When speaking with the superintendent, he didn't blast the teachers bbut kept saying they were struggling. He did say there was a large lack in parent involvment and that they keeo changing the administration so "give it one more year." But then he also said he doesn't blame me and he moved his own family for the same concerns I have.

If the superintendent of our schools said this to me, I'd be moving or considering private schools.

I don't mean to sound flip about it. I just think that if the highest person in your district won't even send his kids to the schools, they know something is broken and won't be fixed anytime soon.  Definitely research tuition assitance at the private schools. If you really don't want your child exposed to the Catholic doctrine, that probably limits your choices. Do you rent or own?