So the overwhelming majority, over 80%, of babies in KC's state are getting formula in some capacity at six months? And in fact 53% are getting no breast milk at all at that age?
Seems like a healthy majority to me!
People who aren't EBF =\= formula use. Those who are using solids in the 4-6 month window would report as not EBF. Taking into account those numbers are a state average and those statistics are taking into account lower income families less likely to bf I can safely say the majority here in my area who are not low income are bf past six months.
A low rate of bf at 12 months doesn't necessarily mean they used formula. I know people who quit in the 9-10 month window that went straight to cows milk. I know people who stopped bf but had a freezer stash of breast milk and did a combo of that and solids. They might not report as still bf. Others justify it being ok to use formula past six months because that's when the gut can handle solids and it isn't so bad using formula in that window. It doesn't mean those people wouldn't formula shame.
lol backpedal all day.
Sure some random assholes will formula shame. Just like everyday some random asshole violates the civil rights of a woman nursing in public. Neither one are the norm.
It's not back pedaling. You're using those statistics to justify everyone using formula when that isn't necessarily true. Not bf at 12 months =\= using formula. My point is I've been questioned by numerous people (not just a random isolated asshole) so I don't doubt that the article author could have encountered that many assholes especially if she lives in an area where crunchy moms are all the rage.
Here's the thing, at 3 months, only 36.9% of moms were still EBFing in your state. So that means the majority were using formula in some amount. Doesn't mean they're EFF either.
Here's the thing, at 3 months, only 36.9% of moms were still EBFing in your state. So that means the majority were using formula in some amount. Doesn't mean they're EFF either.
Again, doesn't mean formula though. It could be juice for constipation, rice cereal for reflux, probably some other shit I'm forgetting. Even saying it's definitely formula--a mom giving 2oz of formula a night isn't necessarily exempt from formula shaming.
Here's the thing, at 3 months, only 36.9% of moms were still EBFing in your state. So that means the majority were using formula in some amount. Doesn't mean they're EFF either.
Again, doesn't mean formula though. It could be juice for constipation, rice cereal for reflux, probably some other shit I'm forgetting. Even saying it's definitely formula--a mom giving 2oz of formula a night isn't necessarily exempt from formula shaming.
You are really fucking paranoid. Really. Not everyone who Breastfed is out to get you.
Again, doesn't mean formula though. It could be juice for constipation, rice cereal for reflux, probably some other shit I'm forgetting. Even saying it's definitely formula--a mom giving 2oz of formula a night isn't necessarily exempt from formula shaming.
You are really fucking paranoid. Really. Not everyone who Breastfed is out to get you.
I don't think all breast feeders were "out to get me" but when someone questioned why I wasn't BF and then tried to lecture me that it's a myth that women can't produce enough milk...yeah they were judging my kid wasn't on my boob for sure. I'm not traumatized by it and I'm not going to write a blog about it but when people say it's happened to them they're not necessarily full of shit.
You are really fucking paranoid. Really. Not everyone who Breastfed is out to get you.
I don't think all breast feeders were "out to get me" but when someone questioned why I wasn't BF and then tried to lecture me that it's a myth that women can't produce enough milk...yeah they were judging my kid wasn't on my boob for sure. I'm not traumatized by it and I'm not going to write a blog about it but when people say it's happened to them they're not necessarily full of shit.
So do you think Lala is judging when she educates people on this topic?
I mean, if I had a dollar for every person who told me they "didn't make enough milk" I could have hired a damn wet nurse. It's the most common booby trap out there. Big shock, these people had no clue about growth spurts how what the first six weeks of Breastfeeding really look like. Two were Babywise moms.
And that is the fault of our healthcare system and the piss poor state of women's health care. I get it might offend someone, but the truth is that doesn't make it less true.
Maybe you were the special snowflake who truly had all of the proper education and support needed to be successful and it still didn't work. But if you think they majority of women have access to those advantages, you are way misinformed. Most people have no clue, it doesn't work and then they "don't make enough".
I haven't read all the comments but I was hounded in the hospital about breastfeeding (with dd). So much so that I actually tried BF. I hated it like I thought I would and felt very embarrassed to have to tell the same nurses who pressured me into trying that I was going to FF. The way they looked at me made me feel like I was an inch tall. Bottom line is BF isn't for me. I understand that FF isn't for some people and I respect that. I just wish I had been given the same respect.
Here's the thing, at 3 months, only 36.9% of moms were still EBFing in your state. So that means the majority were using formula in some amount. Doesn't mean they're EFF either.
Again, doesn't mean formula though. It could be juice for constipation, rice cereal for reflux, probably some other shit I'm forgetting. Even saying it's definitely formula--a mom giving 2oz of formula a night isn't necessarily exempt from formula shaming.
I wouldn't call it "shaming" per se, but I have a couple of die-hard lactivist "friends" who gently questioned why I wouldn't just pump more or look into donor milk instead of giving the twins that one bottle of formula daily. Depending on who you're talking to, this crap does happen, BUT I think for the most part it happens online, where people feel much more free to be judgmental and give unwanted advice and opinions. In real life, I've found this to be much less of an issue. There's always going to be an asshole here or there who says something, but it just doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it does, say, on TB.
I haven't read all the comments but I was hounded in the hospital about breastfeeding (with dd). So much so that I actually tried BF. I hated it like I thought I would and felt very embarrassed to have to tell the same nurses who pressured me into trying that I was going to FF. The way they looked at me made me feel like I was an inch tall. Bottom line is BF isn't for me. I understand that FF isn't for some people and I respect that. I just wish I had been given the same respect.
I'm truly sorry that happened to you, because again your body, your choice.
I do think this is symptomatic of the larger issues about BF education in our healthcare system. Nurses and hospital based LCs are under tremendous pressure to meet certain metrics, and are working on the assumption that any choice a new mother is making is an uneducated one -- because there is no universal standard of care BF education in pre-natal care. Hell, the BF class at my hospital was $90 -- that is not accessible for the majority.
It should be a situation where you are educated about not only the benefits of Breastfeeding but how it actually works as part of pre-natal care. So when you are at the hospital and say no, that is the end of it, knowing the patient has made an informed choice.
Again, doesn't mean formula though. It could be juice for constipation, rice cereal for reflux, probably some other shit I'm forgetting. Even saying it's definitely formula--a mom giving 2oz of formula a night isn't necessarily exempt from formula shaming.
I wouldn't call it "shaming" per se, but I have a couple of die-hard lactivist "friends" who gently questioned why I wouldn't just pump more or look into donor milk instead of giving the twins that one bottle of formula daily. Depending on who you're talking to, this crap does happen, BUT I think for the most part it happens online, where people feel much more free to be judgmental and give unwanted advice and opinions. In real life, I've found this to be much less of an issue. There's always going to be an asshole here or there who says something, but it just doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it does, say, on TB.
Honest question -- if you are already breastfeeding, why would the suggestion of donor milk be offensive when supplementing? In lots of places donor milk is not am easy process -- if I knew a mom was knocking herself out to BF twins and was talking to me about supplementing AND I had information about donor milk options, would it rally be offensive to offer that?
I don't think all breast feeders were "out to get me" but when someone questioned why I wasn't BF and then tried to lecture me that it's a myth that women can't produce enough milk...yeah they were judging my kid wasn't on my boob for sure. I'm not traumatized by it and I'm not going to write a blog about it but when people say it's happened to them they're not necessarily full of shit.
So do you think Lala is judging when she educates people on this topic?
I mean, if I had a dollar for every person who told me they "didn't make enough milk" I could have hired a damn wet nurse. It's the most common booby trap out there. Big shock, these people had no clue about growth spurts how what the first six weeks of Breastfeeding really look like. Two were Babywise moms.
And that is the fault of our healthcare system and the piss poor state of women's health care. I get it might offend someone, but the truth is that doesn't make it less true.
Maybe you were the special snowflake who truly had all of the proper education and support needed to be successful and it still didn't work. But if you think they majority of women have access to those advantages, you are way misinformed. Most people have no clue, it doesn't work and then they "don't make enough".
Yes. My issue is that "didn't make enough," is the standard response. And it can't possibly be the original cause for as many women as proclaim it.
Pediatricians are giving out incorrect information left and right.
Classes, support groups, LCs, etc. cost money and/or time - of which lots of women don't have.
I wouldn't call it "shaming" per se, but I have a couple of die-hard lactivist "friends" who gently questioned why I wouldn't just pump more or look into donor milk instead of giving the twins that one bottle of formula daily. Depending on who you're talking to, this crap does happen, BUT I think for the most part it happens online, where people feel much more free to be judgmental and give unwanted advice and opinions. In real life, I've found this to be much less of an issue. There's always going to be an asshole here or there who says something, but it just doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it does, say, on TB.
Honest question -- if you are already breastfeeding, why would the suggestion of donor milk be offensive when supplementing? In lots of places donor milk is not am easy process -- if I knew a mom was knocking herself out to BF twins and was talking to me about supplementing AND I had information about donor milk options, would it rally be offensive to offer that?
It's not that I was offended exactly, but I just don't think it's necessary at all. Donor milk is important for some people who really need it; preemies who are at risk for NEC, babies with severe allergies, etc. My kids were already getting a lot of breast milk; they tolerated formula fine, and it was free because my pediatrician's office hooked me up on the free sample train in a big way, so save the donor milk for someone else, you know? And on a personal level (and I know it's a UO, and irrational, so don't jump down my ass) I am kind of icked out by the idea of donor milk. I don't judge other people who make that choice, but I wouldn't myself unless I really had to.
Honest question -- if you are already breastfeeding, why would the suggestion of donor milk be offensive when supplementing? In lots of places donor milk is not am easy process -- if I knew a mom was knocking herself out to BF twins and was talking to me about supplementing AND I had information about donor milk options, would it rally be offensive to offer that?
It's not that I was offended exactly, but I just don't think it's necessary at all. Donor milk is important for some people who really need it; preemies who are at risk for NEC, babies with severe allergies, etc. My kids were already getting a lot of breast milk; they tolerated formula fine, and it was free because my pediatrician's office hooked me up on the free sample train in a big way, so save the donor milk for someone else, you know? And on a personal level (and I know it's a UO, and irrational, so don't jump down my ass) I am kind of icked out by the idea of donor milk. I don't judge other people who make that choice, but I wouldn't myself unless I really had to.
I appreciate you answering because it really was an honest question.
I don't think all breast feeders were "out to get me" but when someone questioned why I wasn't BF and then tried to lecture me that it's a myth that women can't produce enough milk...yeah they were judging my kid wasn't on my boob for sure. I'm not traumatized by it and I'm not going to write a blog about it but when people say it's happened to them they're not necessarily full of shit.
So do you think Lala is judging when she educates people on this topic?
I mean, if I had a dollar for every person who told me they "didn't make enough milk" I could have hired a damn wet nurse. It's the most common booby trap out there. Big shock, these people had no clue about growth spurts how what the first six weeks of Breastfeeding really look like. Two were Babywise moms.
And that is the fault of our healthcare system and the piss poor state of women's health care. I get it might offend someone, but the truth is that doesn't make it less true.
Maybe you were the special snowflake who truly had all of the proper education and support needed to be successful and it still didn't work. But if you think they majority of women have access to those advantages, you are way misinformed. Most people have no clue, it doesn't work and then they "don't make enough".
I don't deny my experience isn't the norm country wide. Like fintin, I was hounded by nursing staff (which didn't bother me because I was fully committed to bf). I had three different lc come. When I was forced to supplement to leave the LC came and spent a half hour with me and scheduled a follow up for the next day. On top of that I got the standard LC call five days after I left the hospital to see how it was going, would i like an appointment for help. I don't doubt that many places in the country especially lower income that BF support and education is a joke but it is absolutely not the case here. So yeah people trying to "educate" were singing to the choir. I think BF education is certainly a more important issue in general but it doesn't mean that people have taken that message to an extreme and use it to shame moms who can't/don't want to bf.
And no, I don't think lala is judging. I doubt she's questioning random people of why they're not breastfeeding. And even then I didn't assume anyone that's asking was judging either. Some people were curious since I was nursing at the hospital but not at two months old. I'm not some socially inept person who can't read into people's intent. It's not rocket science to tell if someone is asking out of curiosity or wants to be condescending.
I never once had anyone shame me for giving my kids formula. I like to think I only associate with people who possess some level of tact and I find it unbelievable that so many people know more than one person who even gives a shit about what they feed their babies.
I never once had anyone shame me for giving my kids formula. I like to think I only associate with people who possess some level of tact and I find it unbelievable that so many people know more than one person who even gives a shit about what they feed their babies.
If you've never gotten unsolicited parenting advice from strangers/ other moms at mommy and me groups/friend of friends at parties, you're a luckier woman than I.
I never once had anyone shame me for giving my kids formula. I like to think I only associate with people who possess some level of tact and I find it unbelievable that so many people know more than one person who even gives a shit about what they feed their babies.
If you've never gotten unsolicited parenting advice from strangers/ other moms at mommy and me groups/friend of friends at parties, you're a luckier woman than I.
Not everyone takes all unsolicited advice as shaming.
I never once had anyone shame me for giving my kids formula. I like to think I only associate with people who possess some level of tact and I find it unbelievable that so many people know more than one person who even gives a shit about what they feed their babies.
If you've never gotten unsolicited parenting advice from strangers/ other moms at mommy and me groups/friend of friends at parties, you're a luckier woman than I.
I like to think I have resting "give me unsolicited advice and I will cut you" face.
If you've never gotten unsolicited parenting advice from strangers/ other moms at mommy and me groups/friend of friends at parties, you're a luckier woman than I.
Not everyone takes all unsolicited advice as shaming.
I don't. Again, doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell if someone's curious and is trying to make conversation or if someone wants to be a condescending asshole.
If you've never gotten unsolicited parenting advice from strangers/ other moms at mommy and me groups/friend of friends at parties, you're a luckier woman than I.
I like to think I have resting "give me unsolicited advice and I will cut you" face.
Post by Kcthepouchh8r on Oct 24, 2014 15:37:29 GMT -5
Also I think experiences vary because some places are super crunchy and some aren't. Not saying everyone who is crunchy is all holier than thou about bf but it's not unheard of.
I haven't read all the comments but I was hounded in the hospital about breastfeeding (with dd). So much so that I actually tried BF. I hated it like I thought I would and felt very embarrassed to have to tell the same nurses who pressured me into trying that I was going to FF. The way they looked at me made me feel like I was an inch tall. Bottom line is BF isn't for me. I understand that FF isn't for some people and I respect that. I just wish I had been given the same respect.
I'm truly sorry that happened to you, because again your body, your choice.
I do think this is symptomatic of the larger issues about BF education in our healthcare system. Nurses and hospital based LCs are under tremendous pressure to meet certain metrics, and are working on the assumption that any choice a new mother is making is an uneducated one -- because there is no universal standard of care BF education in pre-natal care. Hell, the BF class at my hospital was $90 -- that is not accessible for the majority.
It should be a situation where you are educated about not only the benefits of Breastfeeding but how it actually works as part of pre-natal care. So when you are at the hospital and say no, that is the end of it, knowing the patient has made an informed choice.
I completely understand the reason why they suggest BF. I do belive that there should be more ways people can be educated about bf. With that said when a mother tells the nurse/LC that they are FF they should respect that. Also when I say I was "hounded" about BF it wasn't a "well here is some more information on it if you aren't 100% sure". That I could have understood but it was them outright telling me "BF is better. Don't you want the best for your baby?".
Other than in the hospital I didn't get any negetive comments about FF. I think people do but I tend to agree that it isn't as often as people think.
I FF both boys, they couldn't BF. I never received one comment on feeding them.
Recently though I had a lady follow me around the grocery store. I was loading everything in the car and she finally came up to lecture me about getting rid of DS2's pacifier.
So, it could happen.
I don't think anyone denies it could happen. I just don't buy that a woman who had a double mastectomy is constantly shamed by people she refers to as friends for not BFing.
I don't BF. I take meds that would pass through the breast milk and cause severe diarrhea and dehydration so I knew before my kids were born that it wasn't an option for me. It's a moot point since I didn't want to breast feed anyway and as it turns out, my body apparently does not make milk. I never got a drop of anything or engorged at all after either kid. But I do have a medical reason that I fling at people who won't shut up about it.
So I can tell you that, even when you've explained your medical reason, some people do still make nasty remarks to you about not breastfeeding. Some people give you the "Oh you poor thing, have you looked into donor milk? Because breast milk is best for your baby. Or you could stop taking your meds until they're older." It does happen. It happened to me. Not often but it did happen a few times when Joey was born. Is she probably exaggerating for effect? I'm sure. But I bet she did get comments.
With Joey, I felt bad that I couldn't breast feed. Not because I wanted to, but because I felt it was part of my job as his mom. With Mallory, all of that crap had subsided and I was totally okay with it. Until she keeps trying to suckle through my clothes. Then I cry and I feel bad that I can't give her what she wants. But really, overall, I'm relieved I couldn't BF. I didn't want to do it. And it's nice to have an "excuse" that militant pro-breastfeeders usually deem acceptable. It's not an issue often but has been maybe 3 or 4 times between the two babies.
I don't think anyone denies it could happen. I just don't buy that a woman who had a double mastectomy is constantly shamed by people she refers to as friends for not BFing.
Yeah, I didn't read that. My boys have special needs, they couldn't breastfeed, heck DS1 couldn't even eat from a bottle in the beginning. I have never had ANYONE shame me for the way I fed them, even when feeding purees at an older age. I would think, especially friends, wouldn't say anything. Sounds like this lady wants attention.
She didn't say it was friend though. It was more moms at mommy and me classes, women at the cafe she frequented, etc. did you take a mommy and me class? In her defense I found a lot of know it all types with no tact there too.