Todays installment of is it racist?

[meshaliuknits]

ECLARIES. lol

[elleblue]

I think it'd be weird if she thought you're racist for emphasizing not doing anything that might be perceived in that way. If anything I'd think she was feeling uncomfortable because she was thinking you were being overly PC (you weren't btw, just wanting to be mindful) but maybe I'm interpreting your post wrong? 

[iammalcolmx]

Do a nice tropical fruit salad. I think the Watermelon and Bananas are OK as long as that salad has other stuff like Mango's, Passion fruit, etc. But yeah I can see your concern

[sunny]

will all the other tables have similar decor, e.g., flags maps etc.? I was going to say it might be obviously weird if you have fruit and cheese for africa but then I saw the asian table is salad. so I would just make sure all the tables are decorated similarly.

I don't know that her email merits a response; clearly her laugh made you feel the need to be explicit and reiterate the point. this is kind of like the news segment fairly recently where they were trying to saying that people who state that things are racist are racist (e.g., Ferguson). She is probably easily confused about this.

[orval]

As a professional in a related field, it would make me uncomfortable if someone said that to me. Really, what do watermelon and bananas have to do with Africa? It is very condescending and it sounds like your tone was not so nice either. Now if she came back with her proposal and had that in it - then I would certainly say something.

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 25, 2014 13:40:03 GMT -5 orval said:

As a professional in a related field, it would make me uncomfortable if someone said that to me. Really, what do watermelon and bananas have to do with Africa? It is very condescending and it sounds like your tone was not so nice either. Now if she came back with her proposal and had that in it - then I would certainly say something.

This type of response is EXACTLY why asdfjkl brought it up. She wanted to make sure no one did anything thoughtless and offending people. Since us brown folks have African ancestry side-eyes would be activated if the International table representing Africa was filled with stereotypes about us.

[auntie]

Maybe keep the theme, but don't tie your stations into specific continents. Maybe do a appetizer table, entrees, sides & salads and then desserts. If you want to get into themey tables, maybe name and decorate the guest tables instead of the food ones.

DS's school used to do 6th grade International Day where the kids would do a trifold board about "their" country and bring a food to share. As much as I enjoyed the dumplings and samosas, there was always some mouthy broad who wanted to debate the legitimacy of Israel or Pakistan with somebody else's kid. Not cool.

[orval]

I guess it would never occur to me to go to watermelon and bananas because I think of those as American stereotype not African. Which is why I felt it to be condescending to a professional who probably has cooked a zillion meals for all different ethnicities. As I said, if she came back with those in the proposal, then I would definitely say something.

[ttt]

I have nothing to contribute to the racist/not racist part of this, but the kids' school had an event like this once and they had an Antarctica table, which was where you got the ice for your drinks from (and they had little toy penguins around the ice buckets). I thought that was really cute.

[josieposy]

Oct 25, 2014 15:14:41 GMT -5 ttt said:

I have nothing to contribute to the racist/not racist part of this, but the kids' school had an event like this once and they had an Antarctica table, which was where you got the ice for your drinks from (and they had little toy penguins around the ice buckets). I thought that was really cute.

Thank goodness they didn't have polar bears. I would have lost my mind.

I did an Arctic themed nursery for the kids and was (jokingly) very adamant about no polar bears AND penguins, which of course is why I got a ton of penguin stuff. I even wanted to frame this Far Side cartoon but I never did.

[iammalcolmx]

@songforyou scroll up. I said the watermelon and bananas were cool. I am the one who suggested the fruit salad.

[SmartyCat]

If the caterer had gotten SBP's point right away, the laughter would have been followed "yeah, I think we can avoid that", or "I'll send you a few ideas", or SOMETHING that acknowledged that she understood the need to avoid ethnic stereotypes.

Unless she was in fact an ethnobotanist - you know, moonlighting as a caterer, because that happens all the time - who in the moment was so distracted by bananas primarily coming from Central America that she temporarily lost track of her common sense.

[gatsby]

I agree that I would probably make Europe the cheese/grape/cracker table and do coffee/dessert in Africa. Coffee, cocoa, and tea are all major exports of Africa and something like Nigerian puff puff would be a delicious dessert.

Just a lurker's two cents.

[shopgirl07]

It sounds like you were scolding her for something she hadn't even done. She didn't suggest watermelon and bananas yet you told her three times it wasn't acceptable. It seems like you came off as aggressive.

[NitaX]

Can I say this - can we not just throw a dayum fruit salad on the Africa table? Can you get some dishes with okra in it because okra actually hails from Africa? Or maybe some yams because those hail from Africa as well.

I don't know - something out of these recipes. Just not some generic ass fruit salad because nobody has a clue as to what folks in Africa eat. 

asdfjkl - thank you though. Because the history of things have shown that folks do stupid ish when it comes to attempting to represent people of color. So, I ain't mad at you.

[Deleted]

I do think it was kind of weird that you seemed to get serious (I know we can't read tone very well on here) with the "no watermelons or bananas." Obviously I understand the concern with that, but it would've been awkward as hell to hear that from someone before I even proposed an idea. I don't think the caterer thought you were racist or make a racist joke, I just think it was an uncomfortable/awkward moment and she didn't know what to say, so laughter was how she responded.

What about doing different types of rice or chicken for Africa? I know you said no to fried chicken, but there is definitely a way to do chicken that isn't fried that would definitely be representative of some African countries.

Or coffee?

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 17:12:58 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Oct 25, 2014 16:49:25 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Honestly, I don't know why the caterer laughed, but given what transpired, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and say it may have been nervous laughter, especially since we now know she was uncomfortable (would love to know exactly what she said to convey this).  I would have been uncomfortable, too.   First of all, this is a school comprised largely of people of color, but the Africa table is basically an afterthought, with some cheese, grapes, a Somali flag and some kente cloth?  Forget the fact that Europe should have clearly been the cheese and fruit, but ok, it goes to Africa and that is followed up with a hardcore mandate about no watermelons and bananas?  I mean...I would be giving this whole thing the side eye of life, too.  

The Africa table is not an "after thought."  We had a menu roughly in mind and were trying to figure out which country would get which menu item.  Sliders seemed pretty "American."  Even though not particularly South American.  Salad seemed like something that could go pretty much anywhere, but caterer suggested an Asian salad with a sesame dressing.  We had desserts/coffee and fruit/cheese left.  To assign between Africa and Europe.  

Ok I just read this. In that case, I think you should definitely switch it to have dessert/coffee in African and fruit/cheese to Europe.

Like you said, none of the food fits perfectly, but cheese definitely is not a big thing in most African countries, where it's definitely more of a thing in some European countries.

Coffee and desserts can fit in well with Africa. 

[Deleted]

I wouldn't have given cheese, crackers, and fruit to Africa mostly because cheese doesn't have a high place in most African cuisines, or at least that I'm aware of. Coffee and dessert is what I think of when I think about Africa.

I would have given cheese to Europe though because of how many cheeses originate not just in France but all over Europe. Muenster is from Germany, Edam and Gouda from the Netherlands, Jarlsberg from Norway, Cheddar and Stilton from England, etc.

[Deleted]

I want feta cheese. This is only barely related but DAMMIT! I WANT SOME FUCKING FETA.

I hate you all.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 17:54:09 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I should not have said anything. Not anything at all. It was so fucking awkward. But I just wanted.to make.sure we didn't do anything... totally offensive. I think there are a lot of possibilities here, but I have a pretty small budget. Picture, bebe bride, not Park Avenue bride. These are going.to be very standard menu items. I mean, I would love to have dim sum, sushi, and indian food for Asia, but I don't have that budget. I will think about this more.

Goddamn it.

Well then all the more reason to switch things to have Europe be cheese and coffee be Africa.
That sounds less expensive than fruit salad with no connection to Africa. 

You can add cheap little placards with fun facts talking about how many different type of cheeses come out of Europe and how much coffee is exported out of Africa. 

[MrsAxilla]

Oct 25, 2014 17:49:23 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I wouldn't have given cheese, crackers, and fruit to Africa mostly because cheese doesn't have a high place in most African cuisines, or at least that I'm aware of. Coffee and dessert is what I think of when I think about Africa.

I would have given cheese to Europe though because of how many cheeses originate not just in France but all over Europe. Muenster is from Germany, Edam and Gouda from the Netherlands, Jarlsberg from Norway, Cheddar and Stilton from England, etc.

Europe has amazing cheeses, and they grow awesome grapes, too. Moroccan coffee is fabulous.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 18:05:39 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Oct 25, 2014 17:49:23 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I wouldn't have given cheese, crackers, and fruit to Africa mostly because cheese doesn't have a high place in most African cuisines, or at least that I'm aware of. Coffee and dessert is what I think of when I think about Africa.

I would have given cheese to Europe though because of how many cheeses originate not just in France but all over Europe. Muenster is from Germany, Edam and Gouda from the Netherlands, Jarlsberg from Norway, Cheddar and Stilton from England, etc.

Europe has amazing cheeses, and they grow awesome grapes, too. Moroccan coffee is fabulous.

Oh mint tea for Morocco! YUM!

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 18:04:12 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Oct 25, 2014 17:48:02 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I don't think there's a "lie" in anything that I said. In either post. I don't even see where you're coming up with it being inconsistent, much less a "lie". However, there is a big difference between me saying flagS, maps, fabric, etc. and you suggesting one non-representative flag and a single fabric that has been coopted into the popular.culture. That's not even close to a fair representation of what I intend to do or what I said I would do in this thread. But yeah. I'm probably just a liar.

Lol it's mostly just an expression.  I wasn't calling you a liar, I was mostly just saying that what I said was only based on your version of the events, obviously, since I don't know you or the caterer from a can of spray paint (this is also an expression, I don't mean if I see the caterer next to a can of Krylon, confusion will follow).  I was also just being tongue-in-cheek about the Somali flag and kente cloth.  I thought that was pretty obvious?  You're being as aggressive here as you were with the caterer.  I appreciate your efforts not to be offensive, truly, but it wouldn't hurt to take it down a notch.

OMG you just killed me dead 

[iammalcolmx]

If you need help with ideas I know this group of traveling fools can pick cheap good dishes.

[EloiseWeenie]

Instead of each food table representing a continent, could each table have a dish from each of the 4 corners? So 4 types of salad, 4 main dishes, 4 desserts, etc.

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 25, 2014 18:00:44 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Oct 25, 2014 17:54:09 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I should not have said anything. Not anything at all. It was so fucking awkward. But I just wanted.to make.sure we didn't do anything... totally offensive. I think there are a lot of possibilities here, but I have a pretty small budget. Picture, bebe bride, not Park Avenue bride. These are going.to be very standard menu items. I mean, I would love to have dim sum, sushi, and indian food for Asia, but I don't have that budget. I will think about this more.

Goddamn it.

Well then all the more reason to switch things to have Europe be cheese and coffee be Africa.
That sounds less expensive than fruit salad with no connection to Africa. 

You can add cheap little placards with fun facts talking about how many different type of cheeses come out of Europe and how much coffee is exported out of Africa. 

I love the coffee idea however I am confused by the bolded. Fruits have no connection to Africa? Or do I have it wrong?

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2014 18:50:15 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Oct 25, 2014 18:00:44 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Well then all the more reason to switch things to have Europe be cheese and coffee be Africa.
That sounds less expensive than fruit salad with no connection to Africa. 

You can add cheap little placards with fun facts talking about how many different type of cheeses come out of Europe and how much coffee is exported out of Africa. 

I love the coffee idea however I am confused by the bolded. Fruits have no connection to Africa? Or do I have it wrong?

I meant the fruit salad idea sounded like an afterthought. In America as far as I'm aware we aren't getting our mangos, apples, cantaloupe, etc from African countries regularly. So I don't see the connection between Africa and exporting fruiting like I see the connection of coffee for Africa and cheese for Europe. 

ETA: I also meant obviously fruit is something that's eaten in all African countries, but I don't think of fruit salad when I think of any of the African countries I've been to. 

[josieposy]

I bless the rains down in Aaaaaaaafricaaaaaaaa......

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 25, 2014 18:58:37 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Oct 25, 2014 18:50:15 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

I love the coffee idea however I am confused by the bolded. Fruits have no connection to Africa? Or do I have it wrong?

I meant the fruit salad idea sounded like an afterthought. In America as far as I'm aware we aren't getting our mangos, apples, cantaloupe, etc from African countries regularly. So I don't see the connection between Africa and exporting fruiting like I see the connection of coffee for Africa and cheese for Europe. 

ETA: I also meant obviously fruit is something that's eaten in all African countries, but I don't think of fruit salad when I think of any of the African countries I've been to. 

My original suggestion was me working with what she gave me. When I think of African cuisine I think of things I have had in Salvador Bahia, Palm Oil and all......... Coffee is a great idea, my BFF's family grows coffee upcountry.

[Deleted]

It's kind of hard to parse out what's African and what's Afro-influenced, kwim? That's where I get hazy when it comes to fruit.