Street harassment disproportionately impacts women, people of color, LGBTQ individuals, and young people, the group says on its website: "Although the degree to which Shoshana gets harassed is shocking, the reality is that the harassment that people of color and LGBTQ individuals face is oftentimes more severe and more likely to escalate into violence
I agree with this.
It happens to me all the time and I have BRF. It doesn't deter people it just means they scream at me to smile or stop looking so angry.
I'm a black woman who looks really young to most people so it happens to me all of the time. Some of it is truly harassment like being followed practically to my car at Walmart a few weeks ago and being asked if I had time to talk. Sometimes it's just minor attempts to flirt. Both are awkward as hell and completely unnecessary as I'm never in a place where you would expect to be picked up or flirted with by strangers.
Today I got the classic Joey Tribbianni 'how you doin' while shopping for Halloween costumes.
I think it's about culture, not about number of men I encounter in a day.
It's not acceptable to be an asshole here. The men that do harass me are a certain "type" (more on the homeless end of the spectrum - a construction worker or young dude would never do that here). Small towns can have a different culture than big cities, and different countries most certainly do.
Street harassment is so visible and public that I think cultural norms have much more of an impact on it than they do on more serious issues, like date rape (which isn't taking place in the public eye).
I don't have an issue with hello. It is the tone or additional commentary. It is uncomfortable because they expect you to somehow be pleased at their comments and I am frequently chastised for not showing appreciation at the attention which was unwanted in the first place.
And it's usually invasive. Very rarely is it the result of our eyes meeting and me smiling politely or a result of engaging someone in conversation.
95% of the time it's me trying to dig in the refrigeration units for the last 2% milk by some guy who can't even be bothered to hold the fucking door open for me. Or it's two guys rolling by in a broke down hooptie at the gas station while I'm minding my damned business, not even looking at them asking if I'm married.
Although DH says I have a bitch resting face so maybe that helps thwart off the harassers.
I'm pretty certain I have resting bitch face too and blame it for the "Smile for me baby" or the "If I can make you smile it would make my day" type of comments I've gotten.
Yes, I get this too. So irritating!
I grew up in the San Fernando Valley. I would walk to the corner store as a kid, 11-12 years old, and get cat called from cars driving by. Extremely uncomfortable. I get that same feeling that I had then, when it happens now.
I also loved that piece Jessica Williams did recently.
Also, I live in a small ass fucking town, trust and I don't know these people. I'm not going to run into them later either. Small towns are not as tight as they used to be imo especially if you are a minority or don't work in a more visible environment like a school, the post office, gas station attendant.
And really, it's not the words. Sometimes it's easy to even shrug off the intent, depending on where I am and what kind of day I'm having. It's the fear it instills in me, as a woman alone. Is this guy going to follow me? If I don't smile or if I roll my eyes or flip him off or tell him not to do that is he going to flip and hurt me? He's obviously already targeted me for SOMETHING. This is something men don't really think about until women they know tell them that, yes, I, as a woman, have to think about my safety ALL THE TIME.
I have never said out loud what I will say now but reading this story and hearing others experiences I do relate. I am not saying I am hot, pretty or anything else, but after a lot of unintended attention, when I walk through a group of men whether construction men, lawyers, etc. I always look down, either at my feet or now phone. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable. I thought for awhile when I was younger didn't think twice about it, but my husband comments all the time about people looking at me, engaging with me, whatever. It makes me uncomfortable always has.
I don't know whether it is because I am tall, have red hair, carry myself a 'certain way' or something, but it is something that has always been real to me. And, I agree, I have pretty much the same experience living in Philly as I do now living and working in the burbs, BUT, I will say it is not as obviously. In Philly, I got a lot of whistles, cars stopped, fucking ridiculousness but now it is more subtle but still there and still uncomfortable to me.
I mean, I'm ok with the "good mornings". I never mind that, and I usually smile and say it back. But the "damn" and "hey beautiful" and the reprimands are awful.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I mean, I'm ok with the "good mornings". I never mind that, and I usually smile and say it back. But the "damn" and "hey beautiful" and the reprimands are awful.
The worst one I got was a "damn, you sexy" while I was standing in the frozen food aisle waiting for my five year old to decide what kind of pizza he wanted.
I walk to work and take lots of walks around the neighborhood with and without my H. Men treat me differently when Mr. Smock is present. They might say hello but in a very different way, and when he's around I don't get whistles, "good morning beautiful," or "hey college girl!" (lol to the last one.)
This is not men being polite, this is men saying "acknowledge me! Prove that you are sexually available to me!" And thus the "what I'm too ugly for you? You think you're too good for me?" responses. It's all about male power and domination.
I think that anyone who conflates this behavior with the type of "hello" you'd exchange with your neighbor on the way to the mailbox is being deliberately obtuse. This shit is wrapped up in the package of obligation to which some men feel they are entitled from women.
These interactions aren't "friendly" or "neighborly." The men who do this (and notice it's ALWAYS men, and they're ALWAYS doing it to women) aren't always gearing up for a physical attack, but there's certainly an undercurrent of "I took the time to leer at you--now you have to be grateful that I did so or you're a fucking cunt."
Again, it's not all men, of course. But as was pointed out up-thread, it typically comes from certain types of men and is typically directed at younger, attractive women who are not with a man--why would that be if they're just being "friendly" or "neighborly"?
Ok. So is speaking considered harassment? Serious question. Because I don't think saying hi or a variation of that is harassment. Yesterday someone waved to me while I was waiting at a light. Is that harassment? But the smile stuff I get that all the time and it is annoying. I do think many men feel like it is a compliment and I do know many women that feel like Hoda and Kathy.
I consider speaking a form of harassment if the perpetrators are directing their speech only at one group (i.e. women).
Plus, it's not just the speaker's intent, it's the affect on the recipient. Men might think they have "good intentions," but if saying hello or good morning creates feelings of fear or discomfort in the recipient it's harassment.
I'm also very influenced by my PNW childhood--I don't want to talk to strangers, and it makes me feel weird when they talk to me.
I don't care about casual hellos. I don't even care about many of the statements or greetings that come when we exchange a look or otherwise acknowledge each other first.
But if you feel the need to interrupt my personal reverie so you can determine if I'm available, that's harassment. What the fuck am I doing that suggests I wish to be spoken to or that I'm out here looking for a man? I'm just buying bread, yo! At minimum, try to strike up a conversation. Like why are you trying to get with me anyway? Trying to get my attention, force me to acknowledge you? That's the shit I'm talking about.
Disrupting what I'm doing or thinking for the sole purpose of making sure I acknowledge you as a man who got a tingle in his dick at the sight of me makes you a fucking douche and it's harassment.
Thank you @songforyou, cookiemdough, and msmerymac for explaining more. I completely get the motivation part of it and I see why it would be unwanted, especially, if it's happening constantly. I grew up and now live in areas where it's commonly to speak on the streets and similar to SFY, Black people definitely acknowledge each other in passing, so a simple hello is common from both sexes. But there are definitely the Hellos that have underlying meanings.
I'm eager to talk to my guy friends about this because I don't think it's something they've ever thought about. They are definitely not the chase you down and cuss you out types but I'm sure they're guilty of telling women to smile and giving unsolicited compliments. Maybe having discussions in our small circles can help change some behaviors.
Something about this is so simultaneously aggressive and passive-aggressive to me.
Smile, beautiful. What's wrong, mami, it can't be that bad? Why so mean? Who pissed you off? Come on, you can't crack a little smile? You're too pretty to look so mean, smile.
I don't owe anyone a smile, especially not when I'm walking down the street minding my business. I could see me getting a severe case of walk rage over this one day.
Oh lord yes!! To all of this. I am a professional and work in a courthouse and at least once a day I get ' why don't you smile, you are so much prettier that way' or ' smile, life isn't that bad' or 'you are too pretty not to smile.' I fully agree I have a bitchy resting face but at 31 years old and dealing with very unwanted comments my whole life I feel that it has clearly clouded all comments. I am not saying my feelings, presently are justified, but I think years of being propositioned, whistled, whatever, I don't take any positive comments genuinely. And, I feel like I am coming off as such an AW or think I am beautiful or some shit. I hate talking out loud about it because I don't think I am beautiful but swear I have like a bulls eye on me at all times. It is hard to explain I guess.
Look, I'm pretty (because I'm a vain bitch, ha!) and I still don't have to like it. It's not a bragplaint. It's gross and it happens to more than just pretty women. I don't think anyone should have to rate themselves before having an opinion on this kind of shitty behavior.
I have nothing terribly productive to add to the conversation, so here's my anecdotes!
I really think there is a certain demeanor/way of walking/way of carrying yourself that for some reason men feel the need to comment. When I'm just walking around in normal life I very very rarely hear anything. Except occasional commands to smile. More so when I was younger than now.
But when I'm working and out on a field visit? CONSTANT STREAM OF BULLSHIT. Like, I am LITERALLY standing there with a clipboard just watching traffic (or measuring turn lanes, taking photos, etc) and there is about a every 30 second honking horn/yelling out the window type situation. Everywhere from in DC or Baltimore to very rural locations. Doesn't matter. Dudes will say shit. Always. My theory is that it's because I look like I'm busy. Maybe it's some kind of subconscious challenge to get my attention when it's obviously engaged.
Perhaps weirdly I've gotten more comfortable making eye contact and saying hi to people as I've gotten older. I actually do it on purpose when I'm out for a run in my own neighborhood - but I noticed that I also do it in my mom's area in S. Philly. It's probably a questionable practice, but it makes me feel more comfortable in mildly sketchy situations. I just quickly make eye contact and nod at most people. I've never really analyzed why I started doing it - I guess it makes me feel like I'm taking control of the contact? Like, dude might say shit to me - but if I acknowledge him first in a really noncommittal way it moves the ball into my court instead of having to react to him? I dunno. In theory it sounds like it should invite more bullshit from the real assholes, but it hasn't been my experience so far. The fact that I'm overweight and 30+ probably has just as much to do with it as the fact that I look right at people and give them the upward nod.
Also dudes can ALWAYS compliment my shoes and I'll be just fine with that. Probably because I assume they're gay. Which...given the circles I run in when out in the city, is not a weird assumption. But "Damn, girl those shoes are HAWT!" gets a big old grin from me. "Damn girl your ass is FINE!" gets a scowl. Go figure.
It's a pretty easy way to start a conversation with a male in your life that would strive to not be an asshole.
My husband was harassed by a carful of women in NYC when we were dating. They followed him for 3 blocks yelling at him. He told me he felt totally violated and asked if anything like that had ever happened to me. He was really horrified when I told him how often I experienced it (it was summer at the time and it's almost a daily occurrence for me then).
Oh lord yes!! To all of this. I am a professional and work in a courthouse and at least once a day I get ' why don't you smile, you are so much prettier that way' or ' smile, life isn't that bad' or 'you are too pretty not to smile.' I fully agree I have a bitchy resting face but at 31 years old and dealing with very unwanted comments my whole life I feel that it has clearly clouded all comments. I am not saying my feelings, presently are justified, but I think years of being propositioned, whistled, whatever, I don't take any positive comments genuinely. And, I feel like I am coming off as such an AW or think I am beautiful or some shit. I hate talking out loud about it because I don't think I am beautiful but swear I have like a bulls eye on me at all times. It is hard to explain I guess.
I know what you mean but I don't consider it a bragplaint at all, because I think the woman's level of attractiveness plays into it very little. It's more about age range and proximity to me. There are men who know how to see a woman, take in what they're seeing and STFU, and then there are men who want to make a woman acknowledge their existence.
Very true. Someone else pointed out, which I do think is interesting, is that I have noticed it from different areas, demographics and from city to suburbs, and it is different in approaches but same in theory. I think with my hair color and my presence I somehow draw an audience which is completely unintentional. I have been with my husband for 15 years and he always commented that I make a presence in a room- I somehow draw attention- which is never intentional but noticeably. All my life I will barely notice people but everyone knows me. I regularly feel like an asshole as people always recognize me and I stand there with a blank stare.
It's a pretty easy way to start a conversation with a male in your life that would strive to not be an asshole.
My husband was harassed by a carful of women in NYC when we were dating. They followed him for 3 blocks yelling at him. He told me he felt totally violated and asked if anything like that had ever happened to me. He was really horrified when I told him how often I experienced it (it was summer at the time and it's almost a daily occurrence for me then).
What did he say about it? As a redhead myself I also get the " you know, a lot of redheads are not good looking or having real red head ( or some shit) or I don't usually like redheads but you are different." I am a very non-classic redhead. I am half-Italian and german and get very tan in the summer; and my hair changes very blonde. In the winter I do get somewhat pale and hair darkens but I darken again in summer. I do find a lot of people just love redheads; but to a creepy extent.
Maybe because I'm southern I have a hard time just feeling like people shouldn't say hello to me, men specifically. I say hi to folks all of the time. Dudes say hi to me. And honestly, I'm single and a DAMN! would make me smile. I don't want him, because no, but, sometimes a sista needs to hear that she still can make a brother snap his neck to check out the ass.
I don't want anyone to be harassed though. There has to be some space in the middle.
I'm kind of here too but I know my perspective is colored by my experiences. I've never felt threatened or afraid by the randomness that guys have yelled at me and I've never been followed or in a situation where I couldn't get a stranger to leave me alone. Reading people's experiences and seeing that video has enlightened me on how bad this can be.
Look, I'm pretty (because I'm a vain bitch, ha!) and I still don't have to like it. It's not a bragplaint. It's gross and it happens to more than just pretty women. I don't think anyone should have to rate themselves before having an opinion on this kind of shitty behavior.
No, you are right, you are. Let's be real. This is the interwebz and me coming in here and saying ' oh, yeah, I get that shit all the time, everywhere, everyday" can easily come off as me fucking telling all you bitches how HOT I AM- cause duh, I am (j/k) and would set off a potential shit storm. I think it is a really fucking weird dynamic with women most of the time. It is a very fine line of saying ' yeah, I understand, I get some attention too, ' to, wow, we get it you post whore. you think you are hot and better than everyone' You know?
Look, I'm pretty (because I'm a vain bitch, ha!) and I still don't have to like it. It's not a bragplaint. It's gross and it happens to more than just pretty women. I don't think anyone should have to rate themselves before having an opinion on this kind of shitty behavior.
No, you are right, you are. Let's be real. This is the interwebz and me coming in here and saying ' oh, yeah, I get that shit all the time, everywhere, everyday" can easily come off as me fucking telling all you bitches how HOT I AM- cause duh, I am (j/k) and would set off a potential shit storm. I think it is a really fucking weird dynamic with women most of the time. It is a very fine line of saying ' yeah, I understand, I get some attention too, ' to, wow, we get it you post whore. you think you are hot and better than everyone' You know?
Oh I totally get it. I just think it's a sad state of affairs that a great wrong is done to women on a regular basis and we still have to clarify shit before some people are even trying to hear it, kwim?
No, you are right, you are. Let's be real. This is the interwebz and me coming in here and saying ' oh, yeah, I get that shit all the time, everywhere, everyday" can easily come off as me fucking telling all you bitches how HOT I AM- cause duh, I am (j/k) and would set off a potential shit storm. I think it is a really fucking weird dynamic with women most of the time. It is a very fine line of saying ' yeah, I understand, I get some attention too, ' to, wow, we get it you post whore. you think you are hot and better than everyone' You know?
Oh I totally get it. I just think it's a sad state of affairs that a great wrong is done to women on a regular basis and we still have to clarify shit before some people are even trying to hear it, kwim?
Yes, I do. It is sad but I think unfortunately all of us, generation wise, has some of that inside us. Not purposely being harmful or even being angry at someone but the media, television, reality TV, what the fuck ever, has created, ever so unknowingly, this feeling of ' quote un-quote pretty people and/or those that may think of themselves as beautiful, therefore they are vain, fucking, attention whore assholes. Women are the cruelest on each other but the invasion of this joke of a perfection perpetuated by TV, magazines, real life, whatever, continues and is seemingly getting worse with time. I don't know. I guess I am just mumbling.
Post by sparrowsong on Oct 29, 2014 14:57:57 GMT -5
It got a lot better for me after I cut my hair. Up until grad school (late 20s) I had waist long natural blonde hair. Thick too. Definitely my best feature back then. But more than that just really noticeable. A little wind blowing my hair like some kind of "hey, shout woo-WOO!" signal flag and comments were inevitable. My ex got a kick out of it.made him feel like he had a hot piece of arm candy. I learned it was better to tie it back or braid it if we were going somewhere crowded or into the downtown area.
I once had a man stop me and reach for my hair and ask if it was for sale. That was in Paris. I'm not sure how serious he was. It was weird.
No, you are right, you are. Let's be real. This is the interwebz and me coming in here and saying ' oh, yeah, I get that shit all the time, everywhere, everyday" can easily come off as me fucking telling all you bitches how HOT I AM- cause duh, I am (j/k) and would set off a potential shit storm. I think it is a really fucking weird dynamic with women most of the time. It is a very fine line of saying ' yeah, I understand, I get some attention too, ' to, wow, we get it you post whore. you think you are hot and better than everyone' You know?
Oh I totally get it. I just think it's a sad state of affairs that a great wrong is done to women on a regular basis and we still have to clarify shit before some people are even trying to hear it, kwim?
You are right, it is fucked up that women even feel an obligation to explain themselves. I can say that, though,I feel this way as a woman I am not a minority and can truly not understand how difficulty it would be as a woman and minority. And, as you say, we have to clarify shit, and yes, as a woman I do, but as a woman of color I truly cannot understand and am amazed at the issues that go on that I truly have not dealt with. Thank you for your insight.
This just came up on my Twitter feed from The Onion:
Street Harasser Haunted By Woman Who Got Away With Dignity Intact News in Brief • Local • gender • ISSUE 50•43 • Oct 29, 2014
CHICAGO—Regretting his failure to take advantage of the perfect opportunity, local street harasser Jason Foster told reporters Wednesday that he continues to be haunted by the woman who got away with her dignity intact. “I will go the rest of my life wondering if I could have made this woman feel completely demeaned, if maybe there was something else sexually degrading I could have shouted,” said a visibly emotional Foster, reportedly agonizing about the moment that morning when he did not make more of an effort to intimidate the woman by leering at her body or following closely behind her down the street. “It’s eating me up inside that I didn’t trust my gut instinct to go after her and continue making obscene remarks and unwelcome sexual advances. I truly believe she’s the one I could have totally humiliated by yelling ‘nice ass, baby doll’ one more time.” At press time, sources confirmed that an elated Foster had successfully robbed the woman of her dignity while she was returning home from work.
It got a lot better for me after I cut my hair. Up until grad school (late 20s) I had waist long natural blonde hair. Thick too. Definitely my best feature back then. But more than that just really noticeable. A little wind blowing my hair like some kind of "hey, shout woo-WOO!" signal flag and comments were inevitable. My ex got a kick out of it.made him feel like he had a hot piece of arm candy. I learned it was better to tie it back or braid it if we were going somewhere crowded or into the downtown area.
I once had a man stop me and reach for my hair and ask if it was for sale. That was in Paris. I'm not sure how serious he was. It was weird.
yes. Most of my street harassment has been overseas. France was especially bad. Considering how little time I spent there it's ridiculous how many times I was harassed. Although tbf this was a million years ago.
I mean, I'm ok with the "good mornings". I never mind that, and I usually smile and say it back. But the "damn" and "hey beautiful" and the reprimands are awful.
The worst one I got was a "damn, you sexy" while I was standing in the frozen food aisle waiting for my five year old to decide what kind of pizza he wanted.
"Mommy, what does sexy mean?"
Not gonna lie, I might smile at that.
I guess what bugs me more are the repeated attempts. I've made it clear I'm not interested in talking to you. This does not make me a bitch, so don't call me one.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”