I've mentioned it before, but we failed on Ebola years ago. Are the quarantine restrictions too tough? I dunno. I may have gotten Ebola just from reading these threads. But my biggest beef is with our failure to act on this for the last 6-7 administrations.
Followed by a state trooper, really? To watch and see if she runs around vomiting on people??
I have side eyes for basically everyone involved in this. For her, for not just staying home when she's collecting a paycheck and doesn't actually have to go out, for the government for majorly overreacting to someone who has yet to show a single sign of actually being sick, for the media because it's being the goddamn media again.
The way I see it is, she doesn't *have* to go out. She doesn't have to work, she doesn't seem to have children or family members she is responsible for caring for. It would not be a major hardship for her to just stay at home for the next few weeks.
I can understand on principle, because there may very well be healthcare workers returning for whom it *is* a hardship. I don't think the blanket quarantine of people with no symptoms is a good idea, and I'm not sure it's even legal.
But for her particular case, I feel like she's being kind of a jerk just for the sake of it. She's just coming off as annoying to me.
If she was black man defying the law and running away from the police she'd be shot.
The privilege of being legally obstinate only exists for the privileged.
On the other hand, she's able to use her privilege to draw attention to the issue.
Even if you agree with the quarantine, it still seems to me that there's still a debate to be had about what that quarantine should look like, who should pay for it, and who should be subjected to it. If nobody was using their position of privilege to mouth off, the government would be doing whatever the fuck it damn well pleased.
IMHO, we are lucky to have someone who is using their position of privilege to raise the issue. Even if what Maine is doing is right, she's standing up for people in states that are taking things too far -- doing what Christie did, for example. Or enabling us to have a debate about whether someone in her position should be paid, etc.
The bike riding seems like a very strategic choice. She chose to do something that would not put her near other people, but was outside in plain view. It was appropriately defiant. The fact that so many reporters are willing to get so close to her is their choice.
#teamnurse
Also I hate that I'm disagreeing with you and asdfjkl for the second time in a week. WTF IS HAPPENING?!?!?!?!?!!?
If she was black man defying the law and running away from the police she'd be shot.
The privilege of being legally obstinate only exists for the privileged.
On the other hand, she's able to use her privilege to draw attention to the issue.
Even if you agree with the quarantine, it still seems to me that there's still a debate to be had about what that quarantine should look like, who should pay for it, and who should be subjected to it. If nobody was using their position of privilege to mouth off, the government would be doing whatever the fuck it damn well pleased.
IMHO, we are lucky to have someone who is using their position of privilege to raise the issue. Even if what Maine is doing is right, she's standing up for people in states that are taking things too far -- doing what Christie did, for example. Or enabling us to have a debate about whether someone in her position should be paid, etc.
The bike riding seems like a very strategic choice. She chose to do something that would not put her near other people, but was outside in plain view. It was appropriately defiant. The fact that so many reporters are willing to get so close to her is their choice.
#teamnurse
Also I hate that I'm disagreeing with you and asdfjkl for the second time in a week. WTF IS HAPPENING?!?!?!?!?!!?
I don't know what I think of the quarantine but her behavior is exactly the same as an anti vaxxer. She knows better than the government on an issue that has public health consequences.
Also, I just really don't like rule breakers.
Is this our second disagreement this week? I don't keep track and I will love you no matter what. Plus it's boring when everyone agrees with each other all the time. (Heart)
If she was black man defying the law and running away from the police she'd be shot.
The privilege of being legally obstinate only exists for the privileged.
On the other hand, she's able to use her privilege to draw attention to the issue.
Even if you agree with the quarantine, it still seems to me that there's still a debate to be had about what that quarantine should look like, who should pay for it, and who should be subjected to it. If nobody was using their position of privilege to mouth off, the government would be doing whatever the fuck it damn well pleased.
IMHO, we are lucky to have someone who is using their position of privilege to raise the issue. Even if what Maine is doing is right, she's standing up for people in states that are taking things too far -- doing what Christie did, for example. Or enabling us to have a debate about whether someone in her position should be paid, etc.
The bike riding seems like a very strategic choice. She chose to do something that would not put her near other people, but was outside in plain view. It was appropriately defiant. The fact that so many reporters are willing to get so close to her is their choice.
#teamnurse
Also I hate that I'm disagreeing with you and asdfjkl for the second time in a week. WTF IS HAPPENING?!?!?!?!?!!?
Just popping in to put my ditto stamp on ESF.
If anyone is an anti-vaxxer here, it's those who believe, without any evidence, that this woman presents a risk to public health. The only people to contract ebola in America have been those engaged in end of life care. Even if Hickox is at high risk to have contracted it, anyone in contact with her is at extremely low risk.
I don't get the annoyance at this woman, and I don't get why she's seen as such a PR risk. She's opting out of the pornascanner. She's a civil rights hero. #overstating it
On the other hand, she's able to use her privilege to draw attention to the issue.
Even if you agree with the quarantine, it still seems to me that there's still a debate to be had about what that quarantine should look like, who should pay for it, and who should be subjected to it. If nobody was using their position of privilege to mouth off, the government would be doing whatever the fuck it damn well pleased.
IMHO, we are lucky to have someone who is using their position of privilege to raise the issue. Even if what Maine is doing is right, she's standing up for people in states that are taking things too far -- doing what Christie did, for example. Or enabling us to have a debate about whether someone in her position should be paid, etc.
The bike riding seems like a very strategic choice. She chose to do something that would not put her near other people, but was outside in plain view. It was appropriately defiant. The fact that so many reporters are willing to get so close to her is their choice.
#teamnurse
Also I hate that I'm disagreeing with you and asdfjkl for the second time in a week. WTF IS HAPPENING?!?!?!?!?!!?
I don't know what I think of the quarantine but her behavior is exactly the same as an anti vaxxer. She knows better than the government on an issue that has public health consequences.
Also, I just really don't like rule breakers.
Is this our second disagreement this week? I don't keep track and I will love you no matter what. Plus it's boring when everyone agrees with each other all the time. (Heart)
I disagree. The anti-vaxxers think they know more than the scientists and doctors. That's their problem.
She's following recommendations from scientists and doctors. While there is some legitimate disagreement within the scientific community about how to handle this, she's still following the approaches recommended by the majority of the leading experts in the field.
And I take issue with just accepting a recommended approach simply because the government says so. I mean, the government of New Jersey's solution was to strip her naked, give her a paper sheet, and throw her in a tent without running water. But should we expect everyone in New Jersey to just obey those orders because it's the Government?
I'm just not a rule breaker fan. Thumbing her nose at the quarantine, which I thought was recommended by the CDC, to take a picturesque bike ride, isn't doing her cause any favors.
I don't know what I think of the quarantine but her behavior is exactly the same as an anti vaxxer. She knows better than the government on an issue that has public health consequences.
Also, I just really don't like rule breakers.
Well on this particular issue, I think she DOES know more than the government. The government is ignoring the science (shocker). CNN has had a parade of doctors and public health experts on and they all agree with the nurse. Some of them do say she should quarantine for "appearances", but absolutely NO ONE agrees that this is necessary. Forcing a completely unnecessary quarantine just to make everyone feel safer only feeds into the hysteria.
I agree with ESF - she's playing this brilliantly. She told everyone she was leaving the house on Thursday. Maine had ample time to get a court order to compel her to stay, and for whatever reason they were unable to do so. A private bike ride where she doesn't come into contact with anyone is perfect.
I'm just not a rule breaker fan. Thumbing her nose at the quarantine, which I thought was recommended by the CDC, to take a picturesque bike ride, isn't doing her cause any favors.
The CDC, which is both a public health and a political organization, recommends voluntary isolation.
A bike ride through a rural area doesn't seem seem completely at odds with that.
I've been converted. At first I was like oh holy hell NO woman. But the more and more I’ve read, there is no real reason to quarantine her. Now, if she’s saying fuck all the other protocol such as self-temping twice a day, well I’d be pissed again.
Also, how many health care workers are coming from W. Africa into the US each week? Surely there are plenty others that aren’t being quarantined?
I've been converted. At first I was like oh holy hell NO woman. But the more and more I’ve read, there is no real reason to quarantine her. Now, if she’s saying fuck all the other protocol such as self-temping twice a day, well I’d be pissed again.
Also, how many health care workers are coming from W. Africa into the US each week? Surely there are plenty others that aren’t being quarantined?
for THIS particular nurse and THIS particular quarantine? I think she won the battle in NJ, but now she is losing the PR war, and I think she should have continued to fight the quarantine requirement while remaining in her home. but for the broader picture in terms of should quarantine be required, I'm not sure the medical evidence supports that, and I'm not sure our legal system is set up to protect someone in that position either.
That's exactly what she's done. She's been home since Monday, and she's been negotiating with the state. She gave them a deadline and the state has (so far) been unable to compel her to stay quarentined. That's a default win.
Seeing how she acts, I don't have confidence that if she had a fever she would report it right away....
Really? I have every confidence that she would follow appropriate procedures if she noticed anything abnormal, because 1) she knows first-hand how serious this disease is, and 2) presumably if she does end up with Ebola she wants to survive it, and so it would be in her own best interests to seek immediate medical care. And she knows these things.
Seeing how she acts, I don't have confidence that if she had a fever she would report it right away....
Well, this is just a bullshit assumption. She's a goddamn medical professional who knows far more about ebola than 99% of the people judging her and pontificating about her.
Of course it's an assumption because it hasn't happened. But there's been other medical professionals who have not obeyed CDC guidelines.
Well, this is just a bullshit assumption. She's a goddamn medical professional who knows far more about ebola than 99% of the people judging her and pontificating about her.
Of course it's an assumption because it hasn't happened. But there's been other medical professionals who have not obeyed CDC guidelines.
Please name those medical professionals that did not follow whatever CDC guidelines were in place at the time.
The nurse flying when the CDC told her she could fly does not count as "not obeying CDC guidelines" simply because the CDC changed its mind after she flew.
Of course it's an assumption because it hasn't happened. But there's been other medical professionals who have not obeyed CDC guidelines.
Please name those medical professionals that did not follow whatever CDC guidelines were in place at the time.
The nurse flying when the CDC told her she could fly does not count as "not obeying CDC guidelines" simply because the CDC changed its mind after she flew.
Nancy Synderman, Craig Spencer... They both said they would follow "voluntary quarantine" and didn't...
Please name those medical professionals that did not follow whatever CDC guidelines were in place at the time.
The nurse flying when the CDC told her she could fly does not count as "not obeying CDC guidelines" simply because the CDC changed its mind after she flew.
Nancy Synderman, Craig Spencer... They both said they would follow "voluntary quarantine" and didn't...
Neither of them gave anyone the Ebola. Neither of them laid around with a high fever for a while and hoped it would go away. Neither of them projectile vomited on their birthday cake Wikus van de Merwe styles.
Seeing how she acts, I don't have confidence that if she had a fever she would report it right away....
Considering what she's seen, I think she understands the importance of getting immediate treatment for Ebola, and I don't think she actually wants to die of it.
Please name those medical professionals that did not follow whatever CDC guidelines were in place at the time.
The nurse flying when the CDC told her she could fly does not count as "not obeying CDC guidelines" simply because the CDC changed its mind after she flew.
Nancy Synderman, Craig Spencer... They both said they would follow "voluntary quarantine" and didn't...
My understanding - and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not finding news sources to the contrary - is that those CDC guidelines were not put in place until a couple days ago, after both Snyderman and Spencer dared to go out in public.
Your statement was specifically that medical professionals IGNORE CDC guidelines. now you are changing it.
In any event, Nancy Snyderman was in her car. There is no evidence she stepped out of the car. It is my understanding that the quarantine she was under at the time was not a CDC recommended one, but one put in place by the State of New Jersey.
Craig Spencer also did not violate any CDC guidelines, and he was following MSF guidelines. I don't know when he agreed to voluntary quarantine.
If you've got evidence that CDC guidelines recommended 21 day quarantine prior to both those people going out, let me know.
Also, you still have not answered my question regarding why you think Kaci Hickox would not report a fever given that failure to do so would very likely mean death to her.