Work WWYD

[ijack]

I think I've mentioned before that I have a not so great working relationship with one of the engineers in our group. He's a total ass to everyone, but especially to me, and I've taken issue with it before and it's kind of always been pushed aside as "that's just how he is. You need to work on your relationship with him."
Anyway, I'm in MN this week for the purpose of meeting people I work with face to face (our team is split between 2 states and while I've met my direct team in person I haven't met a lot of the other teams I work with), this asshole dude being one of the top people I need to meet. This is what just happened. (P is asshole dude)

Ijackwalks up to P's cube and knocks.
P turns and looks at ijack with distain, "yes?" he says.
Ijack says "hi, I'm Ijack and reaches out her hand.
Presponds angrily "what do you want?"
Ijack, stunned, says "I'm in town and just wanted to meet you."
P grunts and turns back to his computer.

I'm so flabbergasted right now that I don't even know what to do. I mentioned this encounter to my manager and she kind of just laughed it off. But I'm not okay with this. I'm constantly being told I need to work on my relationship with this dude and it's used against me in reviews. I have my weekly catch up with my direct boss in 30 minutes and I want to talk to him about it but I don't even know what to say at this point.
WWYD?

[womet]

I'd say something along the lines that you were hoping to work on improving your relationship with P this week since you're there in person, so you stopped by to introduce yourself, got that response, and wonder if the boss has any suggestions for you. Do others have a good relationship with him? What do they do that perhaps you can do?

But honestly, this guy just sounds like a complete asshole. Sorry.

[tine]

I would definitely say something. Maybe just describe the conversation and say you were shocked. He didn't even know who you were before he was unbelievably rude. Why does this guy still have a job??

[ijack]

Oct 30, 2014 9:41:34 GMT -5 womet said:

I'd say something along the lines that you were hoping to work on improving your relationship with P this week since you're there in person, so you stopped by to introduce yourself, got that response, and wonder if the boss has any suggestions for you. Do others have a good relationship with him? What do they do that perhaps you can do?

But honestly, this guy just sounds like a complete asshole. Sorry.

There aren't many people that are good friends with him, but he's sedinitelu the biggest asshole to me. One coworker bonded with him at a wedding, which isn't really an option.

[arch01]

What womet said.

Also-I'm WTFing your manager for laughing it off. I'd bring that up to your direct boss as well, depending on how the relationships are.

[miniroller]

Agree. I'd ask for Specific suggestions, as opposed to a broad 'work on your relationship.' Recall exactly what went down this am, but try to keep your (totally understandable) frustration out of it. Frustration in the tone of your voice, etc/ be as non-emotional as possible. You can certainly verbalize that this was one of your goals for this trip, & you don't know how to proceed. Good luck.

[crashgizmo]

If it weren't being told to you that you needed to work on your relationship with him, I would probably just chalk it up to him being an ass and moving on. BUT, since it has, I would be direct with your boss and ask what her/his suggestions are to do that, when clearly your (very normal) approach didn't work with this clown.

[womet]

Oh, just in case... I'd document this encounter somewhere. Write down exactly what happened.

[ijack]

I feel like everyone just chalks it up to "P being P" and that's what my manager did this morning (manager is direct boss's boss).
This f-ing sucks.

[ECB]

Wow. And for the fact that this is used against you in your reviews. I don't know how "gentle" I'd be about this. I'd tell direct boss what happened and I'd say that you've tried working on your relationship with him and it's even used against you- but when he is clearly NOT INTERESTED in "working" on anything... what exactly would your boss suggest you do moving forward?

Honestly, I'd be REALLY irate that this is mentioned in your reviews when YOU aren't doing anything wrong here. They are putting it on you to somehow fix this guy instead of putting it on HIM to be a fucking decent person.

[Deleted]

I would say "In response to specific feedback given in my last review, I wanted to make an effort to improve my relationship with P while I was in MN"

Then very calmly relay exactly what you did to introduce yourself.

I would then say I did not feel that P's behavior was professional and that the expectation you build a relationship may be unrealistic given his behavior.

Say you're willing to try whatever boss recommends, but you are very concerned about this expectation.

[starlily]

Oct 30, 2014 10:02:44 GMT -5 ijack said:

I feel like everyone just chalks it up to "P being P" and that's what my manager did this morning (manager is direct boss's boss).
This f-ing sucks.

You need to tell your boss that if this is the position management is going to take, then it cannot be used against you in your reviews.

[Deleted]

Oct 30, 2014 10:22:05 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

Oct 30, 2014 10:12:50 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

I would say "In response to specific feedback given in my last review, I wanted to make an effort to improve my relationship with P while I was in MN"

Then very calmly relay exactly what you did to introduce yourself.

I would then say I did not feel that P's behavior was unprofessional and that the expectation you build a relationship may be unrealistic given his behavior.

Say you're willing to try whatever boss recommends, but you are very concerned about this expectation.

I like this (just corrected "unprofessional" where it should have been "professional").  Basically make it clear that you made an effort to establish a better relationship but that it was met with a less than cooperative response and that you are concerned about being held to an expectation where you can only control half the behavior.

Sorry, that guy is just an ass and there's no way you should be docked because he can't be a decent person.

Haha--you quoted right before I caught it myself;)

[niq]

Oct 30, 2014 10:22:05 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

Oct 30, 2014 10:12:50 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

I would say "In response to specific feedback given in my last review, I wanted to make an effort to improve my relationship with P while I was in MN"

Then very calmly relay exactly what you did to introduce yourself.

I would then say I did not feel that P's behavior was unprofessional and that the expectation you build a relationship may be unrealistic given his behavior.

Say you're willing to try whatever boss recommends, but you are very concerned about this expectation.

I like this (just corrected "unprofessional" where it should have been "professional").  Basically make it clear that you made an effort to establish a better relationship but that it was met with a less than cooperative response and that you are concerned about being held to an expectation where you can only control half the behavior.

Sorry, that guy is just an ass and there's no way you should be docked because he can't be a decent person.

I'd go one more, if you keep trying and the guy continues to be an asshat, just give him negative feedback at review time.

Also, raise the issue with your boss's boss. Say you've tried to forge a working relationship, the guy is way beyond "prickly/antisocial engineer" and just straight-up unprofessional, and your boss isn't giving you any suggestions beyond "try harder", which is not a plan.

I'm sorry people suck. It's part of why I'm switching jobs.

[hbomdiggity]

I don't think it was right of your manager to laugh it off.

But I also don't necessarily agree that you should ask your manager to walk you through it. You need to learn how to handle relationships, even this asshole, yourself.

This is something my H struggled with early on. Thankfully his co has a very strong development program. Between this and self training, he is so so much better with recognizing personality differences and making it work.

I do like the pp for when it is time to discuss with manager, to lay out the expectation, your attempt, and his response. But you still need to have a next step. you can ask for feedback, but I think you need to be proactive vs putting it back on them.

Ps. This is not to say you can't vent here. Or ask for help. I just didn't like all the responses of putting it back on manager.

[ECB]

Oct 30, 2014 11:03:57 GMT -5 hbomdiggity said:

But I also don't necessarily agree that you should ask your manager to walk you through it. You need to learn how to handle relationships, even this asshole, yourself.

I would agree with you if it weren't being held AGAINST her in her reviews!  That's the biggest issue here.  Some people are assholes and it may just be that she'll never have a good relationship with this guy.  And sure, the managers really can't do anything more about that than she can.

But if they are going to laugh off her issues w/ this guy but then turn around and put it in her review - that's wrong and yes, it does need to come back to them. They can't punish an employee for not getting along w/ an asshole when they simply let the asshole be an asshole.

[aurora]

Since this relationship is being held against you in your reviews (WTF?), I agree you need to confront it. I like @kcpokergal's strategy, and as unpleasant as I'm sure that encounter was it at least gives you a very clear example of his unprofessional behavior when you explicitly tried to address the review (work on the relationship).

FWIW, I work with a ton of engineers. Many are prickly. A few are downright jerks. I have only once in my life ever had one refuse to shake my hand at an introduction. This is nowhere near normal behavior and it is not your responsibility to fix him.

[mich1]

I'm annoying and I would probably confront him about his attitude towards me.

I'd probably go back and ask to take him for coffee and tell him that you are expected to improve your relationship with him from your evaluation and what is necessary to made interactions between you smoother in the future.

[niq]

PS I think your IRL name is in the OP, not sure if that's intentional?

[msmerymac]

Oct 30, 2014 9:45:02 GMT -5 tine said:

I would definitely say something. Maybe just describe the conversation and say you were shocked. He didn't even know who you were before he was unbelievably rude. Why does this guy still have a job??

Uh, yeah, why isn't this relationship (and his relationship with every coworker) used against HIM in HIS reviews?

ETA: And how is it being used against you in reviews? Does your manager just ask how it's going with him? Is the issue that he won't respond to emails or requests, requiring you to escalate the situation? I guess I'd just try to treat it as professionally as possible, and as long as the work gets done, I'd chalk it up to his problem/not being a great personality fit.

[ijack]

Oct 30, 2014 11:47:03 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Oct 30, 2014 9:45:02 GMT -5 tine said:

I would definitely say something. Maybe just describe the conversation and say you were shocked. He didn't even know who you were before he was unbelievably rude. Why does this guy still have a job??

Uh, yeah, why isn't this relationship (and his relationship with every coworker) used against HIM in HIS reviews?

ETA: And how is it being used against you in reviews? Does your manager just ask how it's going with him? Is the issue that he won't respond to emails or requests, requiring you to escalate the situation? I guess I'd just try to treat it as professionally as possible, and as long as the work gets done, I'd chalk it up to his problem/not being a great personality fit.

I don't know what, if anything, is being said to him or if this is being used in his reviews. I've been told him manager has "talked" to him about it, but who knows what that means.
We have a pretty typical large company review program. I set goals on my actual job performance, competency expectations and development and this year one of them is around relationship building. And really I'm told what my goals are. One comment on my mid year review was that I need to work on "adjusting to different people." And coworkers are asked to peer review us and while it's not officially used in our review, I know that it comes into play when they are giving us our year end scores (since we're rated against each other, when I get bad peer reviews and my team members don't then I look like the shitty employee). It's kind of hard to explain. But this shit comes up at least once a month about how I need to better communicate and work on personal relationships (only with this dude) so he doesn't get pissed off so often (he's always pissed off and blaming us). The politics here are shit.
I've already documented some stuff in our review system (they're due at the beginning of December) and if this is brought up in a negative way I'll for sure fight it.
I know that my director (manager's boss) doesn't like this dude and has pulled me aside to talk about him having my back. So if I feel like it comes into play in my review or job prospects I'll take a more official route.

[ECB]

Oct 30, 2014 12:56:28 GMT -5 ijack said:

 But this shit comes up at least once a month about how I need to better communicate and work on personal relationships (only with this dude) so he doesn't get pissed off so often (he's always pissed off and blaming us).

You've done it here - but document the conversation from today and have a copy in hand with you at your review.  THis comes up again?  Be very firm about it - it should not fall on YOU to "fix" an issue w/ a person who so clearly isn't interested in changing his ways.  This is on him.  Entirely on him.  If they want the problem fixed, they need to go to him. You have tried and tried and tried.  You can't get blood from a stone. 

Good luck.  This makes me angry for you.

[livinitup]

Is setting him on fire and sweeping the ashes into the nearest trash can an option?

[soso]

Oct 30, 2014 11:06:55 GMT -5 ECB said:

Oct 30, 2014 11:03:57 GMT -5 hbomdiggity said:

But I also don't necessarily agree that you should ask your manager to walk you through it. You need to learn how to handle relationships, even this asshole, yourself.

I would agree with you if it weren't being held AGAINST her in her reviews!  That's the biggest issue here.  Some people are assholes and it may just be that she'll never have a good relationship with this guy.  And sure, the managers really can't do anything more about that than she can.

But if they are going to laugh off her issues w/ this guy but then turn around and put it in her review - that's wrong and yes, it does need to come back to them. They can't punish an employee for not getting along w/ an asshole when they simply let the asshole be an asshole.

Because it IS in her goals, as her manager, I'd expect her to call P out.  "...P, when I stopped by and you did x, I perceived it as Y... Was I offbase?"  And I may say disrespectful for Y but fill in your own words.  THEN you can document all this in your goals and manager follow up and ask for suggestions.  If you reported to me, I'd ask if you've ever said anything to him.  

[Deleted]

I am so furious at your manager. You received some good recommendations. I would have also been completely flabbergasted.

What a fucker.

[Deleted]

New idea! Ask him to go out to lunch and do the naan slapping game (from rocknvolls post). Maybe that would work? And if it didn't u at least get to slap h with naan.

[orangeblossom]

Oct 30, 2014 11:03:57 GMT -5 hbomdiggity said:

I don't think it was right of your manager to laugh it off.

But I also don't necessarily agree that you should ask your manager to walk you through it. You need to learn how to handle relationships, even this asshole, yourself.

This is something my H struggled with early on. Thankfully his co has a very strong development program. Between this and self training, he is so so much better with recognizing personality differences and making it work.

I do like the pp for when it is time to discuss with manager, to lay out the expectation, your attempt, and his response. But you still need to have a next step. you can ask for feedback, but I think you need to be proactive vs putting it back on them.

Ps. This is not to say you can't vent here. Or ask for help. I just didn't like all the responses of putting it back on manager.

This is more than just working a relationship with a difficult person, and management has hid behind "that's just how he is".  No, he's that way, because you continue to allow it.

You can't fix "angry man syndrome".  If every.single.thing  I do with said angry person is met with disdain, what exactly is ijack supposed to do.  I mean, if I say "Hi, I wanted to introduce myself, and angry man responds with "And?", there's not much working on that.  How much more basic can you get than "Hi, I wanted to introduce myself".  

It's one thing to be like angry person doesn't like "ABC", so you should do "XYZ" and that may help.  This goes way beyond that.

This is why it's a management problem, and it's BS to say "Oh, that's just how he is".  Management needs to do some work, and it absolutely should not be used against her in her review.

[Deleted]

OMG what a jerk. I am so sorry.

[Deleted]

How did it go ijack?

[ijack]

Well nothing really happened. I guess my boss, manager and his manager all had a meeting yesterday afternoon (already planned about other things) but I haven't heard an update. I'm sure there will be an excuse for him.
As long as thete is no blame placed on me from now on and I'm not told to work on our relationship I don't care how he acts. If ANYthing about this is mentioned in my year end review (about him or my work relationships in general) then I'll speak to HR or my director. I've documented the whole thing so I'm just sitting on it for now.
I appreciate all the advice I got here and off board from everyone. I was so upset about it and still thinking about it last night, but there is really only so much I can do about him and his assholiness