Let's stop speculating. Clicky: Do you support FF if

[browneyedgirl9]

Yes. 100%

[ohgillian]

I think it's a little weird how we haven't really defined what "do you support" means, and it's assumed that all the "no" votes are the heinous bitchy snug judgmental people who stop you in Target to ask why your LO is drinking from a bottle.

The only thing I'm surprised about here is that a group of seemingly intelligent women are pretending that the way people feel about this topic is black and white, as if one is either peace-love-understanding or a flamethrower.

And like one of the PPs said, FF vs BF has LITERALLY never come up IRL for me, in 5 years of parenting.

[thebreakfastclub]

Oct 30, 2014 21:26:38 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

I have complicated feelings about bfing. Before having a baby, I was probably in the "why wouldn't you try?" camp, with heavy caveats for people with reasons like abuse, etc.

I tried really fucking hard to bf, and I was successful eventually. I would never ever judge someone who tried a little and gave up (like thebreakfastclub) - in fact, I envy her, because I couldn't stop trying even when I had raw bleeding wounds and mastitis because my brain was all fucked up about having to do this stupid thing.

So I don't know. My mind is still pretty fucked re bfing. Sometimes I think about going straight to ff for #2 and then I feel like I would feel guilty forever and that's fucked up. Especially since I did use formula when Bas was older and as soon as we started, I was just like...why was I so conflicted on this?

Aww I appreciate the tag, but really you are the one who deserves all the credit.   

I just mentally and physically couldn't handle a 100% non-latching baby in the few days following my unexpected C/S.   

Everything I read about BF brushed off C/S and said it means nothing in terms of later BF success.  And I know it's not an obstacle for a lot of people, but it was for me.

Reading that, while I was hurting so badly, was a terrible experience.   It was relatively easy to be done with BF, to not care about BF, because I felt like the super pro-BF stuff I read came from a point of view that didn't care about me, or what I was going through.   

[noodleskooze]

Oct 31, 2014 0:33:24 GMT -5 kangaroo11 said:

TBH, I'm jealous of FF moms who could pass off baby to dad or another caregiver because my kid refused bottles and I had no freedom for more than a couple hours until she was 8+ months old. But I felt such pressure to BF that I hesitated on the bottle and she only took it a handful of times before refusing completely.

This...hm.

Just know there are FFers who would be jealous of your situation aka being able to bf.

[jeaniebueller]

I'll just add too that its such a first world construct to judge how a mother chooses to feed her child.

[changedname]

Oct 30, 2014 22:15:00 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

The worst thing about FF is the lack of resources. Nobody tells you how much to feed, how to prepare, when to slow down, how often, etc. Yet Breastfeeding mothers get classes and chapters in books etc.
Yes Breastfeeding is a new thing but as a new Mom - feeding my baby anything was new.

I actually made an official complaint to my city after the prenatal class because of this. Due to health issues I was 99% sure I wouldn't be able to bf and I was expecting to learn how to make up bottles etc at the class. Instead I learned that by ff my kids would be obese and dumb and i would get cancer. I was in tears in the class and my husband hit the roof. This is a government sponsored class.

Not everyone has the choice to bf or ff and that seems to be forgotten by the militants.

[changedname]

One of my good friends chose not to bf because she didn't want to ruin her fake boobs. She got a ton of judgement irl around here and wasn't really confortable joining mom groups because of it. She also got a lot of shit in the hospital for not trying.

The main thing I noticed was how much easier it was for her in the early days when I was really struggling with pain etc. Now I'm sure its a wash.

[ohgillian]

Oct 31, 2014 6:54:57 GMT -5 noodleskooze said:

Oct 31, 2014 0:33:24 GMT -5 kangaroo11 said:

TBH, I'm jealous of FF moms who could pass off baby to dad or another caregiver because my kid refused bottles and I had no freedom for more than a couple hours until she was 8+ months old. But I felt such pressure to BF that I hesitated on the bottle and she only took it a handful of times before refusing completely.

This...hm.

Just know there are FFers who would be jealous of your situation aka being able to bf.

Say more about your "hm"ing. I'm curious what you are trying to convey and I do not want to make assumptions.

[D2M]

This witch hunt-y poll makes me uncomfortable. Feed your baby however you want and own it.

I have a lot of complicated feelings about breastfeeding. i had a hell of a time breastfeeding and my supply never increased, despite hundreds of dollars on lactation consultants and supplements and pumping around the clock. I got a lot of support on here from both the EBFers and the FFers. My DD is now majority formula fed. She'd be an infant mortality statistic without it (#dramatic).

As for the poll, the only people I raise eyebrows over are people like my sister's friend who told me nursing was "gross." That kind of thinking is just as bad as the people who think formula is poison. Both sentiments are laden with judgement and that ultimately does not help mothers.

[anna7602]

Oct 31, 2014 6:20:03 GMT -5 @this said:

If this thread was "do you support BF mothers..." I would be a yes without any further explanation. I think everyone would. 

How can you assume that? There are so many people who put qualifiers on their support/approval of BFing. I've seen it IRL and here. As in, BFing a baby is okay, but BFing a toddler, ewwww. Or the comments I see every once in a while about women being " in your face" about NIP, when maybe they're just, IDK, feeding their children? 

[anna7602]

Oct 31, 2014 6:55:06 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I'll just add too that its such a first world construct to judge how a mother chooses to feed her child.

Actually, it's not. In some societies, formula is seen as a status symbol and you'll be judged as poor if you're BFing. It's a different kind of judgment, but judgment nonetheless. 

[noodleskooze]

ohgillian the hm just means that I think it's way too simplistic. FFers and EPers don't necessarily have an easier time or the ability to hand off their babies.

Feeding has its challenges regardless of how it happens.

Eta: I fully realize I am projecting my experiences here

[D2M]

Oct 31, 2014 7:20:39 GMT -5 @starry said:

How is this a witch hunt? I guess I am tired of the conversation police in general. Tired of a topic... don't join. It is an anonymous poll ffs.

Perhaps "witch hunt" is dramatic.  Some of the comments feel a little bit "come out, come out wherever you are"-ish. 

My experience here is that people are pretty un-asshole-y when it comes to how to feed your baby. 

[meltoine]

Oct 31, 2014 7:29:24 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Oct 31, 2014 6:55:06 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I'll just add too that its such a first world construct to judge how a mother chooses to feed her child.

Actually, it's not. In some societies, formula is seen as a status symbol and you'll be judged as poor if you're BFing. It's a different kind of judgment, but judgment nonetheless. 

Very true. H's cousins from the Middle East were shocked that I BF my kids. "But you're American, and you're rich!" Was one's exact words. (Side note: we are not "rich", but comparatively, ya know)

i have a lot of issues with the formula industry because of their practices in developing countries. I don't necessarily understand willingly supporting the industry if you have another option, same as a lot of people here don't understand people who still shop at Hobby Lobby or eat at Chik-Fil-A. But I would never, never, never, NEVER, judge an individual person for their choice of what to feed their baby. I have no idea what their real reasons are and who the fuck am I to have an opinion about their life?

[docholly]

My post was the one that spun the poll. FF is a completely legitimate parenting choice. While there are health benefits to breastfeeding for both mom and baby, there isn't some magical scale that says those two things outweigh everything else. It isn't as clear cut as BF babies are 100 percent impervious to illness and FF babies are germ magnets. From my experience, the biggest predictor of your child getting sick is not BF or FF but whether or not they are around other children. ODS stayed pretty well illness free until he started daycare at 2.5.

My big issue is that, especially in modern parenting, and I suspect probably all along only made worse by social media, there is an assumption that mothers should be 100 percent selfless. It is as if you get an award for being the biggest martyr. I don't think suffering mothers make good mothers. (This is not to say BF=suffering, but for some who don't have the desire/support it does).

I support breastfeeding, but I think America has a long way to go to make it practical and accessible for a large segment of the population. Many jobs (although they are supposed to be) are unsupportive of breastfeeding moms. Lactation consultants are expensive. The country says breastfeed and then judges people BFing in public.

Even if America becomes perfectly supportive of breastfeeding, however, I still support FFing based on the mothers needs/preferences. It is HER body, and I believe in a woman's right to do with it what she pleases. And, the happiness of a mother IS important. As long as the needs of a child are being met. They are being taken care of, loved, and nurtured, then really, what does it matter?

[SJ]

I am probably just dense, but I really don't even understand the question.

What does it mean? Does clicking no mean that you yell at FF moms on the street? Or just that you silently judge them? And if you had a dear friend IRL who FF, would you stop being friends with them?

And what does it mean on the opposite side? What does it mean to click yes? That you high five FF moms? That you talk to them more?

Seriously I have no idea what is going on.

My story FWIW (nothing? LOL). I never could produce enough milk for DD. She was dropping weight, and I have never pumped more than 1oz/side. So I pump 5x/day, but that is still only a fraction of what she needs. The only reason I ever even felt a twinge guilty about FF is because of the internet. But I also remembered @starry and others saying that they wish they hadn't tortured themselves for so long, and that helped.

NOT ONE SOUL in my life has been anything other than supportive. I guess maybe they are secretly judging me behind my back? But why the fuck would I care about that? I don't need anyone else's opinions or "approval." I have no idea what is going on inside of other's brains, so it really doesn't affect me.

Maybe my ESTJ is showing, but I just don't get having so many feelings about other people's feelings about personal life choices.

[SJ]

Oct 31, 2014 7:50:53 GMT -5 docholly said:

My post was the one that spun the poll. FF is a completely legitimate parenting choice.

I am with you on most of it. But what does this even mean? Who decides what is and is not a legitimate parenting choice?

[Birdie]

Oct 30, 2014 22:56:10 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

I would also like to clarify (before going to bed) that my "non support" comes in the form of wondering (internally) why not. And I realize that is not 100% support because you shouldn't assume it's the default or question it. But anyone who tried and hates it or doesn't want to be bothered or doesn't try for kid 2 or combo feeds or whatever doesn't count in my judgement because the why is answered.

So I guess I really don't see why that nosiness is worthy of such vitriol.

I'm sure some people are much more militant about "breast is best" (which I think is overblown) and they are clear assholes. But all of those that say if you don't support it 100% then it's a no.... that's why I say no, but I really do think there are shades of grey here and not all are worthy of the same level of scorn.

I just wanted to hop in here this morning because I'm not sure we were understanding each other last night. When I was talking last night about thinking people were assholes, it wasn't about people like you. It's about people in my FB feed and the like who post judgmental opinions on BFing and say things like "I just don't understand WHY you wouldn't BF because OBESITY!" If one of my friends said that to me, I would probably reevaluate how I felt about them. If one of my friends were to talk to me about what you said above I would honestly say I understand because I feel that way too. I personally have mixed feelings about my decision at 4 weeks to go to EFF and it's basically the main reason why I feel like I owe it to myself to try harder to BF the next time. But to me that's a personal decision for me and I can see how someone else might not feel that it would be best for them the next go around. That's why I would put myself in the "yes" category.

[dragonfly08]

How anyone feeds her child is absolutely none of my damn business.

I did try to BF both of my girls at first. But I admit that when I switched to FFing within the first few days each time, b/c they both ended up having latch issues, I had ZERO guilt or regret about it. If anything, I was much happier (and therefore, IMO, better and more effective) mom because of it. If a mom knows right from the start that FFing is the best choice for her and her family, that choice is 100% hers to make.

[karinothing]

Oct 31, 2014 6:55:06 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I'll just add too that its such a first world construct to judge how a mother chooses to feed her child.

Not even first world. It is just an upper class care.

[kershnic]

Oct 31, 2014 7:26:17 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Oct 31, 2014 6:20:03 GMT -5 @this said:

If this thread was "do you support BF mothers..." I would be a yes without any further explanation. I think everyone would. 

How can you assume that? There are so many people who put qualifiers on their support/approval of BFing. I've seen it IRL and here. As in, BFing a baby is okay, but BFing a toddler, ewwww. Or the comments I see every once in a while about women being " in your face" about NIP, when maybe they're just, IDK, feeding their children? 

Oct 31, 2014 7:55:08 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

Oct 31, 2014 7:47:19 GMT -5 meltoine said:

Very true. H's cousins from the Middle East were shocked that I BF my kids. "But you're American, and you're rich!" Was one's exact words. (Side note: we are not "rich", but comparatively, ya know)

i have a lot of issues with the formula industry because of their practices in developing countries. I don't necessarily understand willingly supporting the industry if you have another option, same as a lot of people here don't understand people who still shop at Hobby Lobby or eat at Chik-Fil-A. But I would never, never, never, NEVER, judge an individual person for their choice of what to feed their baby. I have no idea what their real reasons are and who the fuck am I to have an opinion about their life?

I really disagree with this.  Formula feeders aren't deciding to support an industry, they're deciding to feed their baby.  (I edited out the original response because I read your first paragraph in the wrong way)

I'm usually way too self centered to actually make my consumption decisions based on bigger social issues, but when we choose what to buy and who to buy it from we do end up supporting those companies and their broader missions.  

[docholly]

Oct 31, 2014 7:53:40 GMT -5 SJ said:

Oct 31, 2014 7:50:53 GMT -5 docholly said:

My post was the one that spun the poll. FF is a completely legitimate parenting choice.

I am with you on most of it. But what does this even mean? Who decides what is and is not a legitimate parenting choice?

I don't think it was the right choice in words, but I basically mean it is just one of the many choices we make for our kids.  It has some positives for some mothers (like it did for me) which transferred to my children, so I think it one people should respect although they don't have to do it themselves.  We make 1000 different decisions for our kids and all do it a little differently.  Formula feeding is just one and it isn't as black and white as Breastfeed or else your kid is going to be sick 365 days a year and by a dummy.    So, I guess meant it is legitimate in that it does have some positives for some families.  

[cincodemayo]

Oct 31, 2014 8:03:54 GMT -5 @forgrace said:

I will add that I have gotten several negative comments IRL about breastfeeding. I've heard "gross" and "when will you be done breastfeeding?" And I don't even NIP. I will admit that most of these comments come from my MIL, who I love, but...ugh. So, I guess that is why I refuse to judge a FF, because I know how it feels. I can see how that might swing in the other direction though, where someone who is judged often for BF and then judges FF as a defense mechanism. And vice versa.

IRL I've noticed this weird thing happens with my friends who switch to FF or FF from the beginning. I've noticed they always are giving these long elaborate explanations and sounding like they feel guilty. It took me awhile to realize that they probably assume I am judging them because I BF, and don't even use bottles (not for lack of trying lol). So now I probably go over the top in making sure they know I am not judging them in the slightest.

What sucks is that there is absolutely NO option of feeding that a mother can do that will prevent judgment from SOMEONE. And that is some BS.

I see this on both sides. I was like 9 days post partum and a person who is only an acquaintance to me sent me a long detailed message about why she switched to formula but that she still believed breast was best. I couldn't even respond, I don't need to know and I certainly don't care. But on the same side, I feel like BF moms have to have some long explanation about why they are still nursing.

The whole FF/BF debate shouldn't be a debate. I seriously wish people would just stop asking other people anything about feeding their kids. I honestly don't ask any of my friends what their plans are. I'd tell them my experiences if they asked but I have no desire to know. 

I mean seriously, no one will ever know the difference between a FF kid and a BF kid once they are weaned. I think realizing that was what made me not care anymore. 

[D2M]

Oct 31, 2014 8:03:54 GMT -5 @forgrace said:

I can relate to this so much -- the over thinking and the over compensating. My big moms group is majority BFers who NIP. Boobs get whipped out left and right.  I pre-mix my DD's formula bottles beforehand so I don't have to bring too much attention to myself when I feed her.

My smaller moms group was six women and three of us had major problems breastfeeding. We spent a large chunk of our time together talking through all the emotions and disappointment of not being able to EBF. The other women seemed like they felt guilty when they had to nurse around us and they definitely seemed to down play their frustrations of how their kids wouldn't take bottles, etc.

Motherhood, man. You can't win.

[Deleted]

Oct 30, 2014 22:51:52 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

The internet is so weird. I have had like, zero, irl conversations with other women about formula vs. BFing (other than sometimes bitching to other BFing moms about how fucking nice it would be to wean) and yet it is the hot topic of the hour EVERY HOUR online. The idea that I would approve or disapprove of a friend based on whether or not she uses formula or her boob is pretty mind boggling to me.

So much this. I pretty much have a conversation weekly with someone IRL and it's basically about how do people on the internet have any IRL friends. I mean everyday it's: 

*Little Johnny's mom fed my Little Jenny a non organic goldfish. We can't have playdates have anymore!" 
*Little Elizabeth gets too much screen time for my liking. I can't risk sending Little Eli over there." 
*My new neighbor doesn't participate in LLL and uses GENERIC formula at Target besides. We can't meetup!" 

And on and on and on and on. 

To the point I don't even think the internet realizes how they sound. 

I mean, "Do you have some level of common sense/basic moral grounding? Do you do wine/beer? Kids that want to play?" Come be  my friend!" 

All of my friends do things different than me and we all have our different soapboxes. Do you know what we yap about when we get together? Shopping. Husbands. Work. You know the stuff of life. I can count on one hand the times we've had moral debates about anything.

Then again the internet, making perfectly normal things seem insane since 1996.  

[SJ]

Oct 31, 2014 8:09:55 GMT -5 @this said:

Oct 31, 2014 7:53:40 GMT -5 SJ said:

Who decides what is and is not a legitimate parenting choice?

The internet. Duh.

I'm ESTJ too, but I'm missing the DGAF gene on this one.

Oh it's way more fun over here on the DGAF side!!! JOIN ME!!!

[Birdie]

Oct 31, 2014 8:11:42 GMT -5 kershnic said:

Oct 31, 2014 7:26:17 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

How can you assume that? There are so many people who put qualifiers on their support/approval of BFing. I've seen it IRL and here. As in, BFing a baby is okay, but BFing a toddler, ewwww. Or the comments I see every once in a while about women being " in your face" about NIP, when maybe they're just, IDK, feeding their children? 

Oct 31, 2014 7:55:08 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

I really disagree with this.  Formula feeders aren't deciding to support an industry, they're deciding to feed their baby.  (I edited out the original response because I read your first paragraph in the wrong way)

I'm usually way too self centered to actually make my consumption decisions based on bigger social issues, but when we choose what to buy and who to buy it from we do end up supporting those companies and their broader missions.  

Deciding to support the formula industry by using formula? No. There aren't other options for feeding your baby other than breastmilk. So if you don't choose to or can't breastfeed, formula is your only choice, thereby not really making it a choice. You no longer have control over it. You can't choose to support a better industry while feeding your baby.

Where you buy the formula? Yeah you definitely have a choice here unless you're on some form of assistance that dictates where you receive the formula.

[kershnic]

I don't like the comparisons between this discussion and abortion. Because when we say 'support' we're talking about totally different things. I do side eye people who have abortions for reasons I disagree with. But I believe passionately and intensely in their right to have the legal opportunity to make those choices. I give a 2 second side eye to a lot of parenting decisions that are different from my own. But if anyone suggested that women should be legally compelled to BF without a reason not to of course I and I assume/hope every woman on this board would be protesting in the streets.

Also, a lot of people in this thread are getting riled up and feeling judged for choosing to FF at all. The poll was very specific about the reason being "I just don't want to." I know that is many people's reason and I don't think that is a big deal, but people are blowing the no responses way out of proportion.

[Deleted]

I don't see any drama in this post. Just tell me who to put on my Frenemy list so I can get my work done without rereading.

[kangaroo11]

Oct 31, 2014 7:39:45 GMT -5 noodleskooze said:

ohgillian the hm just means that I think it's way too simplistic. FFers and EPers don't necessarily have an easier time or the ability to hand off their babies.

Feeding has its challenges regardless of how it happens.

Eta: I fully realize I am projecting my experiences here

I said nothing about EPers. I was specific about FF babies.