How do you ask for space from an SO?

[SwimDeep]

Yep Me AGAIN
...

I have been gently pushing my H towards therapy and medication. He is not happy about it. Any time I bring it up, he tells me he really doesn't want to do it. So he gets up every morning and has coffee and gets wired and feels like he needs to talk about EVERYTHING.

SPOILER: Click to show

I am not a morning person, so I've been (gently (and not so gently)) pushing back. I need to work. I need to study. I've tried to start getting up a little bit earlier so that we have 15-30 minutes to connect in the mornings (which I think he really does appreciate)...but then he keeps going...

I'm starting to think I can diagnose him as general anxiety/ADHD. And when he has something to be stressed about (like a test date) it gets worse. Everything we've ever fought about comes up. I tried to stay calm this morning, and I told him that I think he's looking for an easy distraction. He's thinking so much about what other people think, he can't focus on what he needs to do. But if he doesn't focus on what other people think, he feels anxiety about his deadline...and the anxiety about what my parents think is apparently easier to handle......so we wind up in an argument about whether or not I'm right that he's actively looking for distractions from what he NEEDS TO DO.

(Whoever drew me in SS, PLEASE don't make this part of it.)
My question is, how can I more gently say, "H, I have work to do and studying to do. I can't keep talking about this...."
I'm consistently bringing up couples therapy. He knows I want him to start coming with me. He gets annoyed lately because I've been shutting his rants down with "I think you should come with me to talk to "S" about that." We're in a tight living space (two rooms). So we can't exactly get away from each other.

I know that I'm wearing the patience of this board thin. I want all of you to know that I don't have anyone else to talk to, and I really appreciate the friendship you all have offered. I'm not looking for pity...holidays are hard on everyone, right?

[doglove]

I think you need to be prepared that he is not going to seek help for himself or with you because he does not see anything wrong with his actions. As it stands right now, there are no consequences for his behavior. Why would he get help? You can't control him or push him to do something - you can only control yourself and your own actions.

If you need space, you need to directly say, "I refuse to speak about this subject anymore with you." And stick to your guns, do not engage him. Shut any and all communication down. Walk away.

Honestly this is not about the holidays, just a few weeks ago you were giving excuses about his behavior because of his new job, do you see you are doing the same thing now only using the holidays as the new excuse? You are blaming a lot of external events on his behavior instead of seeing it for what it really is. This is WHO he is.

[cuddlyevil]

You say "H, we need to continue this conversation later, I have to take a test/do homework/etc" and stick to it. But I already know how he'll respond, he'll either keep it up or you'll get an angry rant/silent treatment.

You are not responsible for his emotional and psychological health. If he refuses to get help, then all you can do is keep working on getting yourself healthy and decide whether or not you want to stay with someone who is so hellbent on self-destruction.

[SwimDeep]

doglove, you are right. He doesn't think he needs to seek help. From what I gather, if everyone else in his life would just behave "correctly", he wouldn't have any issues. You're right, I was giving excuses for him because he didn't get the job he wanted. Now he's trying to work towards something else (which I think is a REALLY good direction) and he keeps derailing himself. He has a deadline for a test, and it's easier for him to stress about families/holidays than it is to study.

We have communicated about what we need/want to do for the holidays. Plans have been made. I do not care what other people think of those plans. He does. And he's worried I won't handle it well with my family. (And of course I won't - because I don't give a fuck what they think!)

I think I'm stuck right now because of my upbringing (and that's no one's fault but mine). I'm just not ready to let go yet.

I feel kind of bad for putting all of this out there. Everything you guys know about me involves my marriage, and I'm sad about that.

[SwimDeep]

chalupa - I will be forever grateful for the forgiving "work" from home job that I currently have. It's given me the ability to go back to school full-time while working full-time, but I have definitely stretched the boundaries on "working" from home.

[cuddlyevil]

He's failing to take responsibility for anything in his life right now (his health, career, marriage, et al). It's not your job to "make" him do those things. If he won't get help, he's made his choice and you have to make the choice to live with it or leave it.

[doglove]

You are the ONLY one in control of your own actions. I understand how your childhood affects your ability to make healthy choices, but you need to accept that as long as you do not make any choices for yourself that you will continue to flounder in this relationship.

Every single person in the world deserves an equal partnership and a right to get their needs met. Every single person in the world has a right to have a loving relationship and be treated with respect. If you want to be treated with love and respect, you have to start by treating yourself with love and respect. And then demanding it from the people you surround yourself with. This is YOUR RIGHT as a person.

[SwimDeep]

Nov 19, 2014 14:37:51 GMT -5 cuddlyevil said:

You say "H, we need to continue this conversation later, I have to take a test/do homework/etc" and stick to it. But I already know how he'll respond, he'll either keep it up or you'll get an angry rant/silent treatment.

You are not responsible for his emotional and psychological health. If he refuses to get help, then all you can do is keep working on getting yourself healthy and decide whether or not you want to stay with someone who is so hellbent on self-destruction.

Your first paragraph is exactly what happens. Today, I finally got so upset I flipped a switch and just stopped being emotional. No more tears. No more understanding. Not silence, but not putting up with the whining. Just "Go get your workout in. We can talk later. I'm working right now."

Repeat...repeat...repeat...

I feel like if he could hear himself...if he could see himself on video...maybe he would understand why I think he's struggling with ADD or ADHD and anxiety.

And I know if I could see myself on video I would be saying "Why the fuck do you keep trying to hold on?"

[bullygirl979]

I haven't read anyone's responses because I'm multi-tasking.

But, what I do want to say is that he expects you to "change" for him (getting up early, etc) but he isn't willing to make any changes for you (therapy, meds, couples counseling)? Does that sit right with you? (Rhetorical question)

[doglove]

Nov 19, 2014 14:49:17 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

Nov 19, 2014 14:37:51 GMT -5 cuddlyevil said:

You say "H, we need to continue this conversation later, I have to take a test/do homework/etc" and stick to it. But I already know how he'll respond, he'll either keep it up or you'll get an angry rant/silent treatment.

You are not responsible for his emotional and psychological health. If he refuses to get help, then all you can do is keep working on getting yourself healthy and decide whether or not you want to stay with someone who is so hellbent on self-destruction.

Your first paragraph is exactly what happens. Today, I finally got so upset I flipped a switch and just stopped being emotional. No more tears. No more understanding. Not silence, but not putting up with the whining. Just "Go get your workout in. We can talk later. I'm working right now."

Repeat...repeat...repeat...

I feel like if he could hear himself...if he could see himself on video...maybe he would understand why I think he's struggling with ADD or ADHD and anxiety.

And I know if I could see myself on video I would be saying "Why the fuck do you keep trying to hold on?"

This is really just wishful thinking and/or coming up with yet another excuse to explain or rationalize his behavior. 

[bullygirl979]

Nov 19, 2014 14:41:26 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

doglove, you are right. He doesn't think he needs to seek help. From what I gather, if everyone else in his life would just behave "correctly", he wouldn't have any issues. You're right, I was giving excuses for him because he didn't get the job he wanted. Now he's trying to work towards something else (which I think is a REALLY good direction) and he keeps derailing himself. He has a deadline for a test, and it's easier for him to stress about families/holidays than it is to study.

We have communicated about what we need/want to do for the holidays. Plans have been made. I do not care what other people think of those plans. He does. And he's worried I won't handle it well with my family. (And of course I won't - because I don't give a fuck what they think!)

I think I'm stuck right now because of my upbringing (and that's no one's fault but mine). I'm just not ready to let go yet.

I feel kind of bad for putting all of this out there. Everything you guys know about me involves my marriage, and I'm sad about that.

He clearly doesn't want to take any responsibility. And yes, he will stress about families/holidays so if he does badly on the test, then he can blame them for his misfortune, instead of looking in the mirror. 

He is showing you who he is. You just don't want to see it. 

[Muddled]

What on earth does this have to do with SS?

You have control over you. That's it.
You can create a signal for worktime vs. family time.
You can wear headphones.
You can work from the library or a coffee shop.
You can rent an office share.

You can, and maybe should, discuss things until you are blue in the face, but ultimately you only have the power to change your habits, reactions, lifestyle, whatever.

You talk about him bothering you quite a bit. Time to make some changes.

[bullygirl979]

And SwimDeep? I know my 2 responses may have sounded a little harsh. But I've been where you're at. I kept *listening* to what my XH said. The best advice I ever got was "Stop listening. And start watching. He will truly show you who he is then." And I did. And instead of me making a zillion excuses about what he *said*, I saw how he acted. Actions speak A LOT louder than words.

[cuddlyevil]

Dittoing bullygirl979 here. When I stopped making excuses for stbx, that's when I started to really get motivated to better my situation by any means necessary.

[tiramisu]

SwimDeep I think we've mentioned the book "Codependent No More" to you before. I recommend it to you, highly. Also, AlAnon meetings. You have been stuck your whole life in the role of caretaker to others' needs and feelings at the expense of your own. The thing is, none of them are going to change that for you. You're the only one who can change things for the better for yourself.

I think you know what you need to do. I've seen glimmers of it here and there when we've talked about him. Now it's on you to decide to take a step forward and do it. It's new and unknown and scary, but I predict that it will be so worth it in the end.

[SwimDeep]

Nov 19, 2014 15:22:08 GMT -5 Muddled said:

What on earth does this have to do with SS?

You have control over you. That's it.
You can create a signal for worktime vs. family time.
You can wear headphones.
You can work from the library or a coffee shop.
You can rent an office share.

You can, and maybe should, discuss things until you are blue in the face, but ultimately you only have the power to change your habits, reactions, lifestyle, whatever.

You talk about him bothering you quite a bit. Time to make some changes.

I can't tell you how many times I've thought about renting an office. I'm so close to earning my degree and (hopefully) getting a better job that I'm sticking it out for now.
I know that everything you say is true, and I know that I'm whining right now. I think I'm more emotionally vulnerable during the holidays than I want to acknowledge, and that makes me more susceptible to posting about my emotional struggles on the Internet.

I know that I talk about it more than I realize (which is the only reason it has anything to do with SS...I want people to know and like me for me, but pretty much all I've ever posted about is my screwed up relationship. (FYI: I am NOT flaking out on my draw! I've already (almost) finished shopping)

I feel like I just keep trying to share my perspective so that I can understand the width and depth of the hole I've dug for myself. But the more I try to explain it, the deeper I end up digging.

[neonpink]

I don't have any better advice then what was said above.

I do believe in the say something and stick with it. You said you live in two rooms. If you need to study and do work pick a room with a door. Tell him you are going in it to do X, shut the door, and when you are done and will be free to talk afterwards. Everyone needs space.

Also I am not sure where you live, when I lived in a Condo there was "conference" room that I could use to study. I lived in a one bedroom loft. I would never have gotten my studying done with my H home talking to me or asking me questions about dinner, life, tv, etc.

[Muddled]

Girl, I just want to hold you to my not so ample bosom and pat your hair.

Right after I shake the shit out of you.

[margarita]

I can't really offer anything here that hasn't already been suggested.

Like Bully said, he expects you (and everyone else in his life) to change FOR him. That's pretty telling, I think. It's a pretty self-centred point of view, and a very emotionally manipulative way to behave in a relationship.

Has your therapist ever talked to you about making a plan to leave? What have they said about your H?

[esdreturns]

I also work from home and my H is here with me all day as he works 2nd shift. So I kind of get where you are. Where in your home do you work? This isn't going to solve any of your marriage problems, but if it was me, I'd just lock the door. Or ignore him while I was trying to work. Or wear headphones (again with ignoring him).

Why can't he just wait until you are done working to talk to you? Does he work? (Sorry, I don't know all the back story).

[esdreturns]

Also, before anyone calls me out, I realize suggesting she ignore him is a bit immature but sometimes you have to do what you have to and if she doesn't want to get fired, she needs to work.

[SwimDeep]

Nov 19, 2014 15:45:26 GMT -5 Muddled said:

Girl, I just want to hold you to my not so ample bosom and pat your hair.

Right after I shake the shit out of you.

First, thank you.
Second, you're not the first person to say something like this to me. My H says something similar. He loves me, but sometimes he "just wants to shake me" to get me to see what's really "going on". I'm sure my parents want to shake me too.

I really don't want to fall into a pity party here. I know I need to make changes, and I'm working on making them. It's hard when you have multiple people gas-lighting you (and I'm just proud of myself right now for being able to recognize it).

For more background, I don't have anywhere I can go and shut/lock the door. I've put headphones in (and continue to) whenever I feel like I really need to get work done. He told me JUST THIS MORNING that he doesn't think he would be like this if he had somewhere to go in the mornings or if I wasn't available to talk to whenever he wanted to talk.

Our talk started this morning with me trying to actively listen and to be open and communicate honestly with him...because these are the hallmarks of good communication, yes? And then I hit my time limit...and it escalated somehow.
And now I'm tired.

And I'm in the small room on the couch with my cats and my laptop and McDonald's and rum...so... christ i'm tired

[SwimDeep]

Nov 19, 2014 16:10:35 GMT -5 esdreturns said:

Also, before anyone calls me out, I realize suggesting she ignore him is a bit immature but sometimes you have to do what you have to and if she doesn't want to get fired, she needs to work.

Yes, I feel immature every time I do it...but he just doesn't stop otherwise...which is why I'm thinking there's an undiagnosed disorder somewhere...but I also know I'm reaching for excuses for him.

I did work today. He's frustrated and not talking to me. I give no fucks...(kinda...I'm drinking over it a little bit).

[esdreturns]

Does he not have a job?

[tiramisu]

Nov 19, 2014 17:46:21 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

Nov 19, 2014 16:10:35 GMT -5 esdreturns said:

Also, before anyone calls me out, I realize suggesting she ignore him is a bit immature but sometimes you have to do what you have to and if she doesn't want to get fired, she needs to work.

Yes, I feel immature every time I do it...but he just doesn't stop otherwise...which is why I'm thinking there's an undiagnosed disorder somewhere...but I also know I'm reaching for excuses for him.

I did work today. He's frustrated and not talking to me. I give no fucks...(kinda...I'm drinking over it a little bit).

You're taking out your frustrations with other people on yourself by drinking. You need to put yourself first and stop focusing on other people. This includes him and your family.

[Muddled]

Swimdeep, I am very sorry that I said something that your H has said before. I truly am.

It's okay to whine and complain on here. The name of the board is Trouble in Paradise. Many of our members have been through similar experiences. Quit using spoiler tags unless you are talking about a tv show or a movie. You deserve to be heard. Your feelings are valid.

You are an active member of this community. You celebrate and commiserate with other members. You admittedly don't say much positive about your H, but you don't do nothing but complain. You are liked. You have become a part of this community. I wish that was more clear to you.

If keeping everyone happy is your goal, and you choose not to leave the home so that you can concentrate, you need to set and enforce boundaries. Set a time that you stat work in the morning. Tell H that you can chat until 9 and then you are working until lunch at 1, then do it. Some may call it ignoring him, I call it enforcing boundaries. Treat him like a 3 year old. He will test the boundaries, but if he finds they are firm, he will eventually respect them.

Obviously, the work thing is not the only, nor the biggest, issue here. You know that. We know that. It is great that you are recognizing patterns of behavior and seeing through manipulation tactics. That is a huge step. You deserve respect. Period.

[doglove]

Nov 19, 2014 18:16:32 GMT -5 Muddled said:

Swimdeep, I am very sorry that I said something that your H has said before. I truly am.

It's okay to whine and complain on here. The name of the board is Trouble in Paradise. Many of our members have been through similar experiences. Quit using spoiler tags unless you are talking about a tv show or a movie. You deserve to be heard. Your feelings are valid.

You are an active member of this community. You celebrate and commiserate with other members. You admittedly don't say much positive about your H, but you don't do nothing but complain. You are liked. You have become a part of this community. I wish that was more clear to you.

If keeping everyone happy is your goal, and you choose not to leave the home so that you can concentrate, you need to set and enforce boundaries. Set a time that you stat work in the morning. Tell H that you can chat until 9 and then you are working until lunch at 1, then do it. Some may call it ignoring him, I call it enforcing boundaries. Treat him like a 3 year old. He will test the boundaries, but if he finds they are firm, he will eventually respect them.

Obviously, the work thing is not the only, nor the biggest, issue here. You know that. We know that. It is great that you are recognizing patterns of behavior and seeing through manipulation tactics. That is a huge step. You deserve respect. Period.

A-fucking-men.

[bullygirl979]

Nov 19, 2014 17:41:14 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

Nov 19, 2014 15:45:26 GMT -5 Muddled said:

Girl, I just want to hold you to my not so ample bosom and pat your hair.

Right after I shake the shit out of you.

First, thank you.
Second, you're not the first person to say something like this to me. My H says something similar. He loves me, but sometimes he "just wants to shake me" to get me to see what's really "going on". I'm sure my parents want to shake me too.

I really don't want to fall into a pity party here. I know I need to make changes, and I'm working on making them. It's hard when you have multiple people gas-lighting you (and I'm just proud of myself right now for being able to recognize it).

For more background, I don't have anywhere I can go and shut/lock the door. I've put headphones in (and continue to) whenever I feel like I really need to get work done. He told me JUST THIS MORNING that he doesn't think he would be like this if he had somewhere to go in the mornings or if I wasn't available to talk to whenever he wanted to talk.

Our talk started this morning with me trying to actively listen and to be open and communicate honestly with him...because these are the hallmarks of good communication, yes? And then I hit my time limit...and it escalated somehow.
And now I'm tired.

And I'm in the small room on the couch with my cats and my laptop and McDonald's and rum...so... christ i'm tired

Again, making excuses for his behaviors. Blaming someone or something for his behavior instead of just owning it.

[gault]

All you can do is change your behavior. You can analyze his behavior all you want, and why he does this and this because of this in the past... and all it does it drive you nuts and then you try to change your OWN behavior in order to fix his. Change your behavior for YOUR benefit. You need to get shit done and you are enabling him to distract you.

You are too awesome for that. You deserve better and you deserve to take care of yourself without him messing up your journey.

Short-term, if you set boundaries and he ignores them or doesn't care, get your stuff, go to a coffee shop or the library, and do your thing there.

[SwimDeep]

Nov 19, 2014 19:30:25 GMT -5 bullygirl979 said:

Nov 19, 2014 17:41:14 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

He told me JUST THIS MORNING that he doesn't think he would be like this if he had somewhere to go in the mornings or if I wasn't available to talk to whenever he wanted to talk.

Again, making excuses for his behaviors. Blaming someone or something for his behavior instead of just owning it.

I called him out on it. He doesn't like being called out. I feel like I'm almost live-blogging our fight right now, and I'm not sure how I feel about that...
I told him I don't care that he doesn't like it. Somebody's got to start doing it!