Drowsy but awake and swaddling

[rbp]

So I tried putting M down drowsy but awake for the first time last night. It went fine but didn't help him stay asleep. He went down at 8:30, fell asleep in about six minutes, and woke up at midnight. It's been 1.5 hours and I'm nursing him for the second time because I can't figure out what else to do. H is working overnight.

Am I correct in thinking that he needs access to his hands to be put down drowsy but awake? It seems like if he is swaddled, the paci will just fall right out of his mouth and he'll have no hope of falling asleep. Or do we have to quit the paci too? UGH UGH UGH

If this is the case, I'm pretty sure we will fail at drowsy but awake. I tried the Magic sleepsuit again and it was an epic fail, again. So now I've got him swaddled and am nursing to sleep. I think he startles himself awake when he's not swaddled. Help?

[dcn]

Yeah we had this same problem when he was that age. He didn't sleep at all when he wasn't swaddled so I said eff it and just kept doing what worked (better) which was nursing to sleep, swaddling, and white noise.

When he finally kicked the swaddle (at 6.5 months) I heavily encouraged the paci and re-arranged the bedtime routine to separate nursing from sleep. He was also able to roll around and get comfortable on his own at that point too.

But also, I would try something more than one night before calling it a failure. There is a learning curve to putting him down drowsy, for both of you.

I remember this entry on troublesome tots being helpful. She does recommend ditching the paci eventually, mostly due to object permanence when he gets older. But the paci worked for us so I kept it and we didn't have any issue dropping it when he was older, I think it was around 20 months or so.

www.troublesometots.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-sleeping-through-the-night-part-2/

[anna7602]

DS is no longer swaddled. We only do drowsy but awake MOTN (so not to to put him down for the night), or even just plain awake. After nursing him, I let him PIO- play it out. He coos and rubs his lovey with his hands and on his face, rolls around in his crib and eventually falls back asleep. He'll also "PIO" some mornings, buying me time to get myself some caffeine, help get DD ready for school, etc before I go get him from the crib. This would not work if he were swaddled.

Eta: I have introduced both kids to a lovey just before the transition to the crib from the co-sleeper (3 months-ish) and it has had good sleep associations for them. Lovey 4 lyfe.

[smock]

We did drowsy but awake while swaddled--in fact, I'd nurse until she was asleep and then Velcro the halo swaddle arms which would wake her just slightly. We didn't do a paci in the crib because it woke her up when it fell out.

And we probably only did DBA half the time; the other half she was asleep. And when her eyes were really open we knew she needed more help getting drowsy. At that stage, do what works! We thought of DBA as a goal but not a requirement, if that makes sense.

[rbp]

Nov 29, 2014 2:26:01 GMT -5 dcn said:

But also, I would try something more than one night before calling it a failure. There is a learning curve to putting him down drowsy, for both of you.

Touché. Sleep deprivation doesn't make us think logically, huh?

I'm willing to give DBA another try. It's the not swaddling that I have a problem with. Every time I've tried swaddling with one arm out, sleep sack, Magic sleepsuit, etc. it's been a spectacular failure. BUT his sleep is awful enough now that I really need to do something about it (see my post from yesterday that prompted this question).

[thebreakfastclub]

My baby was an outlier, but he could be put down drowsy but awake always, swaddled or not.

Moving up to 6 month mam pacifiers helped them stay in his mouth longer. I found leaving my hand on his chest for a minute or so settled him down.

[mcfelix]

Have you tried a wubbanub? The weight of the stuffed animal helped keep the paci close to my son's mouth, so that when it fell out, he could still get it back in his mouth without needing hands.

[chickadee77]

We used the Woombie at night, so she could still suck on her hands (through the cloth) for comfort. She never really took a paci, though. I think that doing that at night made the transition out of the swaddle easier.

[Blue Moon]

You said M sleeps well for naps. How do you get him to sleep then if you don't nurse to sleep for naps?

[rbp]

Nov 29, 2014 6:55:34 GMT -5 mcfelix said:

Have you tried a wubbanub? The weight of the stuffed animal helped keep the paci close to my son's mouth, so that when it fell out, he could still get it back in his mouth without needing hands.

That's what we use. Maybe we need to do some suck training

[rbp]

Nov 29, 2014 7:50:23 GMT -5 Blue Moon said:

You said M sleeps well for naps. How do you get him to sleep then if you don't nurse to sleep for naps?

Ha! Good question! Put the paci in his mouth, shush him, and pat his butt. He's pretty much asleep by the time I leave the room.

[rbp]

Nov 29, 2014 7:16:00 GMT -5 oceanspray said:

I think four months was around the age we stopped swaddling and she started sleeping on her stomach. Can he roll over yet?

We also did DBA. If she cried we would wait about 10-20 minutes and then go in and rub her back until she fell asleep.

He can roll belly-to-back *sometimes*. He can't roll back-to-belly yet. I've actually tried putting him down on his belly for naps a few times, but he doesn't like it. He thinks it's tummy time and pushes up haha.

[Deleted]

Nov 29, 2014 7:53:54 GMT -5 rbp said:

Nov 29, 2014 6:55:34 GMT -5 mcfelix said:

Have you tried a wubbanub? The weight of the stuffed animal helped keep the paci close to my son's mouth, so that when it fell out, he could still get it back in his mouth without needing hands.

That's what we use. Maybe we need to do some suck training

My DS can barely keep the wubbanub in his mouth either but he's obsessed with it...

[rbp]

Nov 29, 2014 7:20:18 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

We used the Woombie at night, so she could still suck on her hands (through the cloth) for comfort. She never really took a paci, though. I think that doing that at night made the transition out of the swaddle easier.

MIL bought this thing that looks similar to a Zipadee Zip and allows him to have his hands near his face, but he doesn't seem to like that either. I don't know if he startles himself awake or just isn't good at getting his hands to his mouth?

[anna7602]

Are you sure this isn't the 4-month wakeful rearing it's ugly head, rbp? If it is, now is not the time to worry about DBA.

[Blue Moon]

Nov 29, 2014 7:55:09 GMT -5 rbp said:

Nov 29, 2014 7:50:23 GMT -5 Blue Moon said:

You said M sleeps well for naps. How do you get him to sleep then if you don't nurse to sleep for naps?

Ha! Good question! Put the paci in his mouth, shush him, and pat his butt. He's pretty much asleep by the time I leave the room.

What if you tried nursing, a short break (book maybe?) and then your nap routine at night?

ETA: for bedtime I mean.  I'd still nurse to sleep in the MOTN.

[rbp]

Nov 29, 2014 8:07:45 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Are you sure this isn't the 4-month wakeful rearing it's ugly head, rbp? If it is, now is not the time to worry about DBA.

This is a fair point.

[rbp]

Nov 29, 2014 8:10:08 GMT -5 Blue Moon said:

Nov 29, 2014 7:55:09 GMT -5 rbp said:

Ha! Good question! Put the paci in his mouth, shush him, and pat his butt. He's pretty much asleep by the time I leave the room.

What if you tried nursing, a short break (book maybe?) and then your nap routine at night?

ETA: for bedtime I mean.  I'd still nurse to sleep in the MOTN.

So he fell asleep just fine last night. I even did an abbreviated shh-pat and left while he was still awake. He fell asleep in a few minutes. But he woke up 3.5 hours later and could not be comforted, which was when I switched him to a swaddle.

I'm not so concerned about falling asleep at night as minimizing MOTN wakings. The first stretch of sleep is supposed to be the best of the night, but he's often been waking within 2-3 hours of bedtime lately! (Wilted)

The more I type, the more this is sounding like 4MW. He's four months on Thursday. Sigh.

[rbp]

Now my MIL is texting me that it's time to start rice cereal. I love her, but lolol.

[D2M]

Nov 29, 2014 5:18:52 GMT -5 Jennyanydots said:

Nov 29, 2014 4:23:30 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

DS is no longer swaddled. We only do drowsy but awake MOTN (so not to to put him down for the night), or even just plain awake. After nursing him, I let him PIO- play it out. He coos and rubs his lovey with his hands and on his face, rolls around in his crib and eventually falls back asleep. He'll also "PIO" some mornings, buying me time to get myself some caffeine, help get DD ready for school, etc before I go get him from the crib. This would not work if he were swaddled.

Eta: I have introduced both kids to a lovey just before the transition to the crib from the co-sleeper (3 months-ish) and it has had good sleep associations for them. Lovey 4 lyfe.

Except when you give them a little bear as a lovey when they are 5 months old to replace the paci and they promptly stick the arms and legs in their mouth and suck on them and sleep with the bear every night and nap from then on and the bear is totally disgusting and smells even after you wash it and everyone who sees the bear is repulsed by it and you have to always put bear on a high shelf because she wants to suck on his arms and legs 24/7 and the bear is a random breast cancer fundraising bear that you can't find a duplicate of to replace it with and every time she asks where bear came from and who gave her the bear you start crying because your friend who sent it to her when she was born died of melanoma last year...or so I've heard...

Oh gosh, I clicked like before I read to the end. I'm sorry for your loss.

[chickadee77]

Nov 29, 2014 8:17:27 GMT -5 rbp said:

Now my MIL is texting me that it's time to start rice cereal no love her, but lolol.

Lol. My dad's wife kept telling me this when L was, like six weeks old. Yeah, no.

Sounds like the 4mw. I hope it resolves quickly for you! 

[anna7602]

Nov 29, 2014 8:16:13 GMT -5 rbp said:

Nov 29, 2014 8:10:08 GMT -5 Blue Moon said:

What if you tried nursing, a short break (book maybe?) and then your nap routine at night?

ETA: for bedtime I mean.  I'd still nurse to sleep in the MOTN.

So he fell asleep just fine last night. I even did an abbreviated shh-pat and left while he was still awake. He fell asleep in a few minutes. But he woke up 3.5 hours later and could not be comforted, which was when I switched him to a swaddle.

I'm not so concerned about falling asleep at night as minimizing MOTN wakings. The first stretch of sleep is supposed to be the best of the night, but he's often been waking between 2-3 hours of bedtime lately! (Wilted)

The more I type, the more this is sounding like 4MW. He's four months on Thursday. Sigh.

This is what DS was doing about 3 weeks ago, the very week he mastered rolling belly to back. I would put him down at 6. He normally slept from 6-1 or even 2, but he was waking up at 8:30 or 9. It killed me because DD wasn't even asleep yet for his first waking. Then he'd be up again at 11 or midnight, on and on. One night, he was even up every 1.5 hours. 

He has settled back down now and is again only waking up once/night. Or if its twice, it's more like 2am, then 5am. Much more reasonable. Hang in there! 

[Jem]

Nov 29, 2014 8:16:13 GMT -5 rbp said:

Nov 29, 2014 8:10:08 GMT -5 Blue Moon said:

What if you tried nursing, a short break (book maybe?) and then your nap routine at night?

ETA: for bedtime I mean.  I'd still nurse to sleep in the MOTN.

So he fell asleep just fine last night. I even did an abbreviated shh-pat and left while he was still awake. He fell asleep in a few minutes. But he woke up 3.5 hours later and could not be comforted, which was when I switched him to a swaddle.

I'm not so concerned about falling asleep at night as minimizing MOTN wakings. The first stretch of sleep is supposed to be the best of the night, but he's often been waking between 2-3 hours of bedtime lately! (Wilted)

The more I type, the more this is sounding like 4MW. He's four months on Thursday. Sigh.

Hmm, what you are describing is us to a T. And after that first early wake-up he basically wakes every hour. We thought he was just broken (haha, kidding, maybe) but maybe he is also in the midst of the 4MW. He turned 4 months last week. This has been going on for about 1.5 weeks now. We are dying.

[Deleted]

I swaddled through to 6 months with DD - she slept better with it and I did everything that got sleep this time. She was also still in a vibrating chair until at least 4 months. I wouldn't give up the swaddle right now.

And yeah, you're sort of describing the 4 month wake. My condolences. Keep trying, work toward some of the ideals (like drowsy but awake), but mostly just survive and it will get better. I can promise nothing stays the same, good or bad.

[dcrunnergirl52]

Yup, sounds like the 4-month wakeful. It's likely nothing you try now will help--your best bet is to just wait it out. For all three of my kids, it lasted about 3-5 weeks and then they all became much better sleepers than even before it hit.