"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
this is why I don't understand the prolife movement. What was the point of keeping Terry Schaivo alive? Isn't there a point where even if you are breathing, life isn't worth living and you should be put out of your suffering? (are the death panels hiring?)
My husband had a patient whose baby only had two heart chambers - completely incompatible with extra uterine life and probably would result in a very late very painful "miscarriage."
She was on medicaid so no abortion (or skittles) for her. My husband monitored her particularly closely during Thanksgiving and Christmas because he was worried about her emotional health going through the holidays visibly pregnant at family gatherings and having to repeatedly explain that her baby was probably going to die.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
This issue just touched my life very closely. (not me. turkey shorti is fine AFAIK)
I cannot imagine being told that your baby will never survive to have anything like a normal life outside the womb, but there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. It's just so fucking heartlesss.
No family should have to endure this. None. It is cold, heartless and inhumane to make a woman, her husband and her family, and a baby go to term or wait out a stillbirth when something is so terribly wrong with a pregnancy.
People really need to get a grip. And thank you for posting the warning not to read the comments. I don't need my head to explode this early in the day.
Post by EloiseWeenie on Aug 3, 2012 21:09:32 GMT -5
:-( :-( :-(
I can't even imagine what it must be like to have to make that decision. It's heartbreaking. How could you judge someone for that?
anecdote: one of my good friends from college has a son with a rare genetic seizure disorder, called TS (tuberous sclerosis). He's had part of his brain removed, and will most likely have another surgery in the near future to implant a device on his brain in order to help control his seizures. To see what she has gone through, and to not know the certainty or quality of his future, is nothing short of heartbreaking.
Do these lawmakers really think these women are getting to this point in their pregnancies and just thinking "Nah...never mind." Do they not THINK?
Look. If they want to go through that hell in their own life, have at it. But to condemn another family to suffer through it? You have no heart. None.
It was a long time ago now, but I asked about this on this board once. There are people who don't think these people should or should be able to terminate. They think it's very sad, but they should let nature take its course.
Post by redheadbaker on Aug 3, 2012 21:53:21 GMT -5
I posted a link to this article on FB, and of course the first two comments are, "I actually went to college with the 2nd example [from the intro to the article]. Had the mindset of "if I dont think about it..it doesnt exist" until she was at the point where she couldnt pretend it didnt exist anymore. She went somewhere and "took care of it"..ugh."
and
"I knew someone who did the first. She got pregnant to piss her mom off, and said that she was going to keep it, even though she was on disability and 17 and couldn't afford a baby. Then, she had morning sickness until the time she aborted at 22 weeks. She got tired of being pregnant. She told her mom that the novelty had worn off."
I can't even imagine what it must be like to have to make that decision. It's heartbreaking. How could you judge someone for that?
anecdote: one of my good friends from college has a son with a rare genetic seizure disorder, called TS (tuberous sclerosis). He's had part of his brain removed, and will most likely have another surgery in the near future to implant a device on his brain in order to help control his seizures. To see what she has gone through, and to not know the certainty or quality of his future, is nothing short of heartbreaking.
A friend of mines daughter has TS. She was tested and misdiagnosed as a toddler, and thenf I ally at age 7 got the diagnosis. It is a really sad situation for the girl, and she has a fairly mild case.
I can't even imagine what it must be like to have to make that decision. It's heartbreaking. How could you judge someone for that?
anecdote: one of my good friends from college has a son with a rare genetic seizure disorder, called TS (tuberous sclerosis). He's had part of his brain removed, and will most likely have another surgery in the near future to implant a device on his brain in order to help control his seizures. To see what she has gone through, and to not know the certainty or quality of his future, is nothing short of heartbreaking.
A friend of mines daughter has TS. She was tested and misdiagnosed as a toddler, and thenf I ally at age 7 got the diagnosis. It is a really sad situation for the girl, and she has a fairly mild case.
TS is hard, you never know if your child will be affected by it, and to what severity if they are. She blogs, and although she can find joy in any situation, her life is so hard :-( Her son is 3, and I don't wish the decisions they've had to make for his care on anyone. His seizures keep getting worse, and he hasn't responded that well to any of the meds (and they've tried pretty much everything). They removed part of the brain in hopes it would lessen the seizures, but that didn't work.
I remember her writing a post about having more children shortly after her son was diagnosed. I would never fault her if she chose to terminate a pregnancy if the baby was a carrier, although I have no idea what she would do (or if she'll even have another child).
This whole thing makes me want to cry: what these women and their partners and families are going through, the fact that people are demonized for their decision to spare their child pain and suffering, the fact that their right to do so is in danger because a bunch of old men think they're doing it for fun. All of it is so heartbreaking.
I posted a link to this article on FB, and of course the first two comments are, "I actually went to college with the 2nd example [from the intro to the article]. Had the mindset of "if I dont think about it..it doesnt exist" until she was at the point where she couldnt pretend it didnt exist anymore. She went somewhere and "took care of it"..ugh."
and
"I knew someone who did the first. She got pregnant to piss her mom off, and said that she was going to keep it, even though she was on disability and 17 and couldn't afford a baby. Then, she had morning sickness until the time she aborted at 22 weeks. She got tired of being pregnant. She told her mom that the novelty had worn off."
Really? They know the 2 of the 1.5% pregnancies terminated after 21 weeks? They should buy lottery tickets with those odds.
Also, I was under the impression that there were two doctors who performed elective abortions after 20 weeks in the entire NATION. And one of them was George Tiller. So, one doctor. So, also amazing odds that they even had access to it.
Do these lawmakers really think these women are getting to this point in their pregnancies and just thinking "Nah...never mind." Do they not THINK?
I think they really do think that way. It's the same way they think a wait period or "information" or a dildo cam is going to change her mind rather than just increasing the burden. It's disgusting.
To my knowledge everyone who believes these late term abortions should be illegal believes in miracles. In their eyes there is no such thing as a condition incompatible with life because there is always a chance that the baby (or mother in the case of a serious maternal complication) won't die.
There isn't really any arguing with that you know? If someone believes that you can't convince them that medical science says otherwise because to them science doesn't trump faith.
Also, they think if a woman dies, that's god's will. He would have saved her (and baby) if it was his plan.
I cannot tell you how upset that made me when a college friend told me that it was better for a woman to die, even if she had other children and a husband, than to have an abortion. This was a good friend who saw me through many crying jags over my dead mom. And then she had the gall a couple years later to briefly stop speaking to me when I started volunteering at PP.
To my knowledge everyone who believes these late term abortions should be illegal believes in miracles. In their eyes there is no such thing as a condition incompatible with life because there is always a chance that the baby (or mother in the case of a serious maternal complication) won't die.
There isn't really any arguing with that you know? If someone believes that you can't convince them that medical science says otherwise because to them science doesn't trump faith.
Also, they think if a woman dies, that's god's will. He would have saved her (and baby) if it was his plan.
I cannot tell you how upset that made me when a college friend told me that it was better for a woman to die, even if she had other children and a husband, than to have an abortion. This was a good friend who saw me through many crying jags over my dead mom. And then she had the gall a couple years later to briefly stop speaking to me when I started volunteering at PP.
(((hugs))) about your mom, Sibil. I'm sorry.
I know some people here saw my story earlier this week. We terminated earlier this year just short of 15 weeks for medical reasons after three weeks of testing to confirm that our son's condition was 'incompatible with life' (nice term, right?).
Despite the very clear signs that we would lose him after our NT scan, and knowing that I was at risk continuing to carry, terminating was still an agonizing decision. That baby was very much wanted (IVF, ffs). We'd have done anything to keep him.
A very good friend of mine found out that her baby had a fatal condition at her anatomy scan. The baby would not have survived the rest of the pregnancy and delivering would have been horrible at 'full term', given the circumstances. The was really no other option but to terminate at that point.
It makes me really angry that people feel that women should not be able to make these decisions. It's not fun to get to second trimester and find out that there's no chance that your baby will live. Nobody wants to go through that kind of hell. This shit shouldn't even be up for discussion.
I know of a few who have been in this situation of having to make this gutwrenching decision. All but one kept their child, even knowing they would not live long after birth. They all amaze me for their strength and I used to think some would just elect for such an abortion. I no longer do and can't imagine the choice being gone.
this is why I don't understand the prolife movement. What was the point of keeping Terry Schaivo alive? Isn't there a point where even if you are breathing, life isn't worth living and you should be put out of your suffering? (are the death panels hiring?)
Per the Catechism of the Catholic Church re: Euthanasia
2276 Those whose lives are diminished or weakened deserve special respect. Sick or handicapped persons should be helped to lead lives as normal as possible.
2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons. It is morally unacceptable.
Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator. The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded.
2278 Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of "over-zealous" treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one's inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.
2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.
If I am remembering correctly, in the case of Terry Schiavo it would have meant ending "ordinary care" and that is why it was against Chruch teaching.
Do these lawmakers really think these women are getting to this point in their pregnancies and just thinking "Nah...never mind." Do they not THINK?
Look. If they want to go through that hell in their own life, have at it. But to condemn another family to suffer through it? You have no heart. None.
It was a long time ago now, but I asked about this on this board once. There are people who don't think these people should or should be able to terminate. They think it's very sad, but they should let nature take its course.
I just can't.
And I completely get the heartbreak here. But I also get the heartbreak when an infant is diagnosed with a horrendous disease. I think a big factor for pro-lifers is the idea that this would not be allowed if the baby had just been born with some horrendous, heartbreaking disease. The law would not allow a parent to remove their child's pain and suffering then. Pro-lifers really don't see much of a difference between these two scenarios. Most of us don't think late term aborters are horrible people TYVM (and that's not directed at you Pesca).
And that's about all I'm going to say on the subject because we know where these threads go.....nowhere good.
It was a long time ago now, but I asked about this on this board once. There are people who don't think these people should or should be able to terminate. They think it's very sad, but they should let nature take its course.
I just can't.
And I completely get the heartbreak here. But I also get the heartbreak when an infant is diagnosed with a horrendous disease. I think a big factor for pro-lifers is the idea that this would not be allowed if the baby had just been born with some horrendous, heartbreaking disease. The law would not allow a parent to remove their child's pain and suffering then. Pro-lifers really don't see much of a difference between these two scenarios. Most of us don't think late term aborters are horrible people TYVM (and that's not directed at you Pesca).
And that's about all I'm going to say on the subject because we know where these threads go.....nowhere good.
I don't know. My mom is a hospice nurse so I will ask her more when she wakes up. But if you have a baby born with one of these horrible not life compatible conditions, you most certainly can make the decision to all hospice and give comfort giving measures only, which if the baby is in horrible pain, might mean so much morphine that the baby just goes to sleep. Happens more than you would think with hospice patients.
A friend of mines daughter has TS. She was tested and misdiagnosed as a toddler, and thenf I ally at age 7 got the diagnosis. It is a really sad situation for the girl, and she has a fairly mild case.
TS is hard, you never know if your child will be affected by it, and to what severity if they are. She blogs, and although she can find joy in any situation, her life is so hard Her son is 3, and I don't wish the decisions they've had to make for his care on anyone. His seizures keep getting worse, and he hasn't responded that well to any of the meds (and they've tried pretty much everything). They removed part of the brain in hopes it would lessen the seizures, but that didn't work.
I remember her writing a post about having more children shortly after her son was diagnosed. I would never fault her if she chose to terminate a pregnancy if the baby was a carrier, although I have no idea what she would do (or if she'll even have another child).
Can I offer an anecdote? My cousin has TS, though I don't know how the severity compares to your friend's child's condition. He is in his 30s now, and is an incredible athlete. He competes in the Special Olympics in at least running and skiing. I think he bowls and runs in regular races, too. He kept up with us in every sport and game we played growing up. He is mentally disabled, but has worked at 7-11 and maybe other places, too.
I'm sure every situation is different, and my aunt and uncle have the means to get him the treatment and support he needs. I hope your friend's family is as lucky as ours.