Everyone knows the benefits of tipping in cash (immediate payment; tax evasion). So I feel this is kind of like if you weren't tipping, or tipping low, and he mentioned, "Hey, most people tip 10-20% for delivery!" Poor form. Doesn't need to be said.
ETA: Even working as, say, a barista, we only got our cash tips paid out once a week, because the entire amount was divided by the number of hours you worked.
ETA2: I get salty about places like food trucks or restaurants that are cash-only because I assume they are committingtax fraud, lol. I mean, really, buy an iPad, install a POS system, and attach a Square to it and you can accept cards.
I also like to see people pay their taxes. In the end, it hurts me when they don't. I actually pay $5 more every other week to my cleaning people for writing a check (i.e. leaving a paper trail) so that they have to claim it as income. Maybe that makes me unsympathetic. So be it.
In theory, it benefits them, too. I've worked jobs under the table before, but if you never have any reportable income, it means no income to determine social security payments. Assuming SS is around long term.
Post by Melissa W. on Dec 19, 2014 12:09:35 GMT -5
My former sister in law was a cocktail waitress and used to brag about how she made bank and didn't report it for taxes. She was extremely confused on why she couldn't get the mortgage she wanted because non paper income.
I also see it often in commercial lending. Yoy.can make all the money in the world but if it is not on reported... I can't help if you are meeting guidelines.
I thought it was common knowledge that people prefer cash tips for tax purposes. So really I'd be surprised at his balls for mentioning it.
However, I cannot begrudge someone in a low paying industry doing what they can to reduce their tax burden. They probably do not have the HDHP/401k/HSA and many other perks in their jobs that many of us benefit from (bot tax and non-tax related).
Yes, those are perks, but they are legal. Underreporting your income that you receive via cash tips is tax fraud. Maybe we should advocate for expanding those types of perks to everyone rather than encouraging tax fraud. Not to mention, that it will mean that people's payments via Social security are lower when they retire if they have been under-reporting their income for years.
A large number of people in this country are outraged over service workers simply asking for a higher minimum wage and healthcare. Asking for a retirement plan would make their head explode.
They're also regularly outraged by low wage earners being on welfare.
So basically service workers should just shut up and report their cash tips and starve.
And I'm sure everyone has that story about their cousin or bestie who makes bank on tips, but that's not a reality for many service workers. And most people couldn't care less about retirement when they can't even manage to make it to the next paycheck.
When I tended bar, I preferred cash tips because with CCs I had it split 50/50 with the other bartender. Yuck. I had a spreadsheet to track my cash tips for taxes. And I pay taxes on my online stuff too!
See, and when I was a host, I got tipped out so waitstaff underreporting tips hurt me.
The restaurants that I worked at always gave hosts a percentage of servers total sales. We had to give them the money out of our tips. That seems like a better system. Reporting tips didn't make a difference.
Yeah, many people who work in tipping positions don't report cash tips. I only have one server who reports cash tips for payroll purposes.
But that information should never be relayed to the customer.
Although, being as so many people in these positions make shit wages, I can't blame them a whole lot. I guess that's my unpopular and possibly flame worthy opinion. If it comes down to me reporting cash tips or making ends meet and putting food on the table, the IRS can suck it.
He's still a douche though.
This is where I am, too.
There are people making much more money than service workers paying than they ought to be in taxes. I can't really get it up for some guy not reporting $5. Plus, it's none of my business. I usually try to tip in cash not because of taxes, but because it just seems like the easiest way for the person being tipped to get their cash.
I don't understand these arguments at all (not just this one). I have plenty of sympathy for low-wage workers, but it doesn't extend to tax evasion. If they make so little, chances are their tax liability is zero or close to it anyhow, no? It should all still be reported. And it isn't just not reporting $5. I highly doubt that tacosforlife's order was his only one, ever. LOL. I would imagine he has many deliveries each shift, though, all year long. Where do you draw the line on the cash people can pocket without reporting? A $5 tip on 5 deliveries a day for a modest 3 days a week is almost $4000 in unclaimed income. That's kind of a big deal if you ask me.
I also don't get the waiting for tips timing issue. Don't most of us have to wait for payment for work performed? I have worked this entire week and not gotten paid a dime of my earnings yet.
Yes, those are perks, but they are legal. Underreporting your income that you receive via cash tips is tax fraud. Maybe we should advocate for expanding those types of perks to everyone rather than encouraging tax fraud. Â Not to mention, that it will mean that people's payments via Social security are lower when they retire if they have been under-reporting their income for years.Â
A large number of people in this country are outraged over service workers simply asking for a higher minimum wage and healthcare. Asking for a retirement plan would make their head explode.
They're also regularly outraged by low wage earners being on welfare.
So basically service workers should just shut up and report their cash tips and starve.
And I'm sure everyone has that story about their cousin or bestie who makes bank on tips, but that's not a reality for many service workers. And most people couldn't care less about retirement when they can't even manage to make it to the next paycheck.
Whoa. This thread took a turn.
I'm all for improving wages and benefits of service workers. And I absolutely am bothered by the preferential treatment the wealthy get with taxes. In fact, it wasn't until 2 years ago that I had an employer sponsored retirement plan available despite being a white collar worker.
I'm just also not sure I'm comfortable when someone tells me point blank that he wants me to tip differently because he doesn't want to pay taxes on it.
Post by barefootcontessa on Dec 19, 2014 13:02:03 GMT -5
Giving cash does not necessarily mean a service-worker is not paying taxes on the income. Whether he claims the income is on him. It seems like people are saying one reason they want to pay on the credit card is so they can effectively police the service-worker, i.e. make sure he pays taxes on that income. That does not sit well with me.
Giving cash does not necessarily mean a service-worker is not paying taxes on the income. Whether he claims the income is on him. It seems like people are saying one reason they want to pay on the credit card is so they can effectively police the service-worker, i.e. make sure he pays taxes on that income. That does not sit well with me.
That's not why I use the credit card for the tip. I do it for convenience.
I also don't assume that all cash tips are unreported (I reported mine, that's for sure). But he flat out told me he prefers cash because CC tips are included in his paycheck and taxed and he gets less of it.
Since he's SUPPOSED to report them, however, that argument makes me uncomfortable. The timing argument and the argument that CC fees reduce the tip are more likely to persuade me.
A large number of people in this country are outraged over service workers simply asking for a higher minimum wage and healthcare. Asking for a retirement plan would make their head explode.
They're also regularly outraged by low wage earners being on welfare.
So basically service workers should just shut up and report their cash tips and starve.
And I'm sure everyone has that story about their cousin or bestie who makes bank on tips, but that's not a reality for many service workers. And most people couldn't care less about retirement when they can't even manage to make it to the next paycheck.
Whoa. This thread took a turn.
I'm all for improving wages and benefits of service workers. And I absolutely am bothered by the preferential treatment the wealthy get with taxes. In fact, it wasn't until 2 years ago that I had an employer sponsored retirement plan available despite being a white collar worker.
I'm just also not sure I'm comfortable when someone tells me point blank that he wants me to tip differently because he doesn't want to pay taxes on it.
I agree with this. I definitely don't support tax evasion, but I also believe that minimum wage needs to be way higher than it is, that income inequality is severely hampering our country and is leading to political instability, that the "American Dream" of socioeconomic mobility is dying or dead, and lots of other despairing things. I would have been irritated to be asked to pay in cash explicitly to enable tax evasion. That doesn't mean that I'm not angry on behalf of low-income workers regarding the economic state of the nation.
Giving cash does not necessarily mean a service-worker is not paying taxes on the income. Whether he claims the income is on him. It seems like people are saying one reason they want to pay on the credit card is so they can effectively police the service-worker, i.e. make sure he pays taxes on that income. That does not sit well with me.
Oh, for sure that isn't why I do it. Most of the time, for me, it's either credit card tip or no tip, take your pick dude, because I have no cash. I'm not policing anyone, but I'd be damn peeved if someone suggested to me how I should tip him (no matter what his reason for doing so was).
I don't necessarily agree that someone else not paying taxes (not saying this person in specific is or is not) is none of my business, but that's a different argument.
A large number of people in this country are outraged over service workers simply asking for a higher minimum wage and healthcare. Asking for a retirement plan would make their head explode.
They're also regularly outraged by low wage earners being on welfare.
So basically service workers should just shut up and report their cash tips and starve.
And I'm sure everyone has that story about their cousin or bestie who makes bank on tips, but that's not a reality for many service workers. And most people couldn't care less about retirement when they can't even manage to make it to the next paycheck.
Whoa. This thread took a turn.
I'm all for improving wages and benefits of service workers. And I absolutely am bothered by the preferential treatment the wealthy get with taxes. In fact, it wasn't until 2 years ago that I had an employer sponsored retirement plan available despite being a white collar worker.
I'm just also not sure I'm comfortable when someone tells me point blank that he wants me to tip differently because he doesn't want to pay taxes on it.
Oh, I completely agree with you. Dude needs to shut up and take his tip however it's given.
I just don't understand a few people in this post who find it outrageous that people who are paid minimum wage or in the case of many servers, $2.13/hr, may not report their tips.
If someone is very low wage earner, they will get a refund on their taxes anyway.
Maybe this is stopping him from getting an EITC or from getting his full Social Security Benefit?
I don't feel any obligation to help people avoid paying taxes especially when it's not even necessarily in their best benefit. You can always increase the tip if you feel badly for them.
Yes, those are perks, but they are legal. Underreporting your income that you receive via cash tips is tax fraud. Maybe we should advocate for expanding those types of perks to everyone rather than encouraging tax fraud. Not to mention, that it will mean that people's payments via Social security are lower when they retire if they have been under-reporting their income for years.
A large number of people in this country are outraged over service workers simply asking for a higher minimum wage and healthcare. Asking for a retirement plan would make their head explode.
They're also regularly outraged by low wage earners being on welfare.
So basically service workers should just shut up and report their cash tips and starve.
And I'm sure everyone has that story about their cousin or bestie who makes bank on tips, but that's not a reality for many service workers. And most people couldn't care less about retirement when they can't even manage to make it to the next paycheck.
Thank you for putting words into my mouth. I am a huge supporter of a raise in the minimum wage. And I would support paying servers the full minimum wage.
I'm outraged that employers can get away with such low wages that their employers are forced onto government assistance.
Giving cash does not necessarily mean a service-worker is not paying taxes on the income. Whether he claims the income is on him. It seems like people are saying one reason they want to pay on the credit card is so they can effectively police the service-worker, i.e. make sure he pays taxes on that income. That does not sit well with me.
That's not why I use the credit card for the tip. I do it for convenience.
I also don't assume that all cash tips are unreported (I reported mine, that's for sure). But he flat out told me he prefers cash because CC tips are included in his paycheck and taxed and he gets less of it.
Since he's SUPPOSED to report them, however, that argument makes me uncomfortable. The timing argument and the argument that CC fees reduce the tip are more likely to persuade me.
This makes me wonder: if I tip via cc at a restaurant, when does the server get it? That night, or next paycheck?
I think it depends on the restaurant. The one I worked at the servers took all of their CC tips home at the end of the night; their sales report deducted the amount of CC tips from the cash that they collected and when they cashed out at night they just turned in whatever the report said they owed. Occasionally we had to pay out their tips if they had no cash sales. The only time they did not get their CC tips at the end of the night was when they worked a private event; group event gratuities were paid via paycheck and they had to wait a week to get them.
A large number of people in this country are outraged over service workers simply asking for a higher minimum wage and healthcare. Asking for a retirement plan would make their head explode.
They're also regularly outraged by low wage earners being on welfare.
So basically service workers should just shut up and report their cash tips and starve.
And I'm sure everyone has that story about their cousin or bestie who makes bank on tips, but that's not a reality for many service workers. And most people couldn't care less about retirement when they can't even manage to make it to the next paycheck.
Thank you for putting words into my mouth. I am a huge supporter of a raise in the minimum wage. And I would support paying servers the full minimum wage.
I'm outraged that employers can get away with such low wages that their employers are forced onto government assistance.
No, I replied to your post specifically because I agree with you. I wasn't putting words into your mouth, my apologies if it came across that way.
I'm all for improving wages and benefits of service workers. And I absolutely am bothered by the preferential treatment the wealthy get with taxes. In fact, it wasn't until 2 years ago that I had an employer sponsored retirement plan available despite being a white collar worker.
I'm just also not sure I'm comfortable when someone tells me point blank that he wants me to tip differently because he doesn't want to pay taxes on it.
Oh, I completely agree with you. Dude needs to shut up and take his tip however it's given.
I just don't understand a few people in this post who find it outrageous that people who are paid minimum wage or in the case of many servers, $2.13/hr, may not report their tips.
Outrageous isn't exactly the word I'd use for how I feel about it, but I don't really see it as right either. There are millions of people who work for minimum wage in non-tip positions, who all have to report. The idea that just because someone is a lower wage earner, who cares if they report, doesn't sit well with me.
Oh, I completely agree with you. Dude needs to shut up and take his tip however it's given.
I just don't understand a few people in this post who find it outrageous that people who are paid minimum wage or in the case of many servers, $2.13/hr, may not report their tips.
Outrageous isn't exactly the word I'd use for how I feel about it, but I don't really see it as right either. There are millions of people who work for minimum wage in non-tip positions, who all have to report. The idea that just because someone is a lower wage earner, who cares if they report, doesn't sit well with me.
This is where I'm at. That's why I used the word "uncomfortable."
I get that for most low wage workers who get tips, not reporting some or all of the tips is more about getting by than Muffy and Skipper trying to use fancy tax shelters so they can afford to buy that vacation home in the Hamptons. So I'm not outraged. But that doesn't necessarily make me all, "OKIE DOKIE, SOUNDS GREAT!" about it, either.
Also note that I used the ^o) emoticon, not the one. LOL.
Yeah, many people who work in tipping positions don't report cash tips. I only have one server who reports cash tips for payroll purposes.
But that information should never be relayed to the customer.
Although, being as so many people in these positions make shit wages, I can't blame them a whole lot. I guess that's my unpopular and possibly flame worthy opinion. If it comes down to me reporting cash tips or making ends meet and putting food on the table, the IRS can suck it.
He's still a douche though.
This is where I am, too.
There are people making much more money than service workers paying than they ought to be in taxes. I can't really get it up for some guy not reporting $5. Plus, it's none of my business. I usually try to tip in cash not because of taxes, but because it just seems like the easiest way for the person being tipped to get their cash.
I am living in this space with you. Is it right? No. But I can't get my panties all in a wad in the same way I can't get them in a wad for a mom getting thrown in jail for stealing formula so her baby can eat. It obviously doesn't make it "ok," but I'm willing to turn a blind eye I do think this guy is a complete douchebag however for all the reasons stated.
Do we ever hear any quotes on how much taxes we think would be generated on unreported income? I would think that if it were such a problem we would have done something about it by now. I absolutely hate the tipping culture and would gladly pay more for my products and services not to have to freaking worry about it and stress if it is too much, not enough, etc. I find the whole system archaic
I think the fact that low wage earners are screwed by our economy is slightly irrelevant when we're talking about one specific person who says that he intends to commit income tax fraud.
Meh. I worked several serving jobs during school and I think we always had to report 8-10% of our total sales (I forget which and it may have varied by employer). So even if I didn't actually get paid 10% of my sales, I was taxed on it - though I doubt that ever actually happened. Anything above that percentage was optional to report, so I doubt anyone did. I really kind of don't care. As a few others have said, I just just can't get upset about someone making the kind of money they make getting a break. I probably never made more than 20k a year and didn't get any help from my parents or anywhere else, so that was all I had for income. I'm fine with others doing the same.
Credit card tips, for me, were always paid out in cash at the end of the night. I assume that varies by employer.
I usually tip in cash. I figure that many or most people working jobs where tips are the norm don't have a high base pay and having the cash means they can get gas on the way home from work, etc.
I have a small problem with those who do not report their tips and a very big problem for employers who pay their workers "under the table" . There is a huge tax free underground economy in our country.
Post by badtzmaru22 on Dec 19, 2014 19:14:57 GMT -5
I don't know about the delivery driver specifically, but I was a server for a long time at several places in OH, and we had to claim 8-10% of our sales at the end of the night for tax purposes. So if you got stiffed by someone, you were still taxed on their meal.
At one place (chain) we got credit card tips on our paycheck, so in addition to being taxed on the sales, you were taxed on your tips. At another place (mom and pop) we got our credit card tips at the end of the night when we cashed out.
Post by sweetnsour on Dec 19, 2014 19:55:39 GMT -5
When I served tables, there where many nights that I had to claim more than I received. If I had a mostly credit card night the machine would force me to claim all of cc tips. However, by the time I tipped the bartender, busboy and food runner, I left with less money than I claimed. I figured it balanced out on the cash nights.