Post by Velar Fricative on Dec 21, 2014 8:49:51 GMT -5
I need to step away from Facebook for my sanity BUT I know I should say *something* to deviate from the general attitude I see of "cops are never ever wrong."
Just as not all cops are bad, not all protesters are bad. The "what do we want? Dead cops" chant from last week's protest along with these reactions to yesterday's shooting, however, are concerning
I feel horrible for these officers, and I feel horrible that the conversation has been so hateful among my loved ones. This has really been an eye-opening experience as to just how many friends and family see things so black and white (pun not intended).
I really don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if cops do start following the 2 cars responding and don't do anything but the bare minimum and if they all do it, there's really nothing the department can do. What effect that's going to have on the city, I have no idea.
As far as the mayor, from what I've seen, I don't see how this damage can be repaired. Emotions are running extremely high right now.
I really don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if cops do start following the 2 cars responding and don't do anything but the bare minimum and if they all do it, there's really nothing the department can do. What effect that's going to have on the city, I have no idea.
As far as the mayor, from what I've seen, I don't see how this damage can be repaired. Emotions are running extremely high right now.
I'm not ok with that. I'd be more ok with a strike. Half assing a public safety job is sabotage, and continuing to be paid while doing so is unacceptable, IMO. If that's the plan, they are making it very hard for me to be sympathetic with the force as a whole.
I don't know. Teachers get shit on by politicians on the daily. I don't know why the NYPD thinks it is is entitled to unconditional political support from the mayor. Or the public.
And we can 1000% support police safety and police contributions while also expecting officer professionalism and accountability.
I really don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if cops do start following the 2 cars responding and don't do anything but the bare minimum and if they all do it, there's really nothing the department can do. What effect that's going to have on the city, I have no idea.
As far as the mayor, from what I've seen, I don't see how this damage can be repaired. Emotions are running extremely high right now.
I'm not ok with that. I'd be more ok with a strike. Half assing a public safety job is sabotage, and continuing to be paid while doing so is unacceptable, IMO. If that's the plan, they are making it very hard for me to be sympathetic with the force as a whole.
I don't know. Teachers get shit on by politicians on the daily. I don't know why the NYPD thinks it is is entitled to unconditional political support from the mayor. Or the public.
And we can 1000% support police safety and police contributions while also expecting officer professionalism and accountability.
I liked this but wanted to say well said. It's scary and I am sympathetic to all family of law enforcement.
I really don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if cops do start following the 2 cars responding and don't do anything but the bare minimum and if they all do it, there's really nothing the department can do. What effect that's going to have on the city, I have no idea.
As far as the mayor, from what I've seen, I don't see how this damage can be repaired. Emotions are running extremely high right now.
I'm not ok with that. I'd be more ok with a strike. Half assing a public safety job is sabotage, and continuing to be paid while doing so is unacceptable, IMO. If that's the plan, they are making it very hard for me to be sympathetic with the force as a whole.
I don't know. Teachers get shit on by politicians on the daily. I don't know why the NYPD thinks it is is entitled to unconditional political support from the mayor. Or the public.
And we can 1000% support police safety and police contributions while also expecting officer professionalism and accountability.
Well police can't legally strike, so that option isn't really there.
I think the biggest impact would be on revenue for the city - if they're not out there issuing summonses, the city isn't bringing in that revenue. That's where the mayor would really feel it.
Already I can tell you that there is a feeling that many cops are much, much more reluctant to put themselves out there in situations that could be volatile or dangerous. This isn't an official edict or anything, just a fairly logical response to everything that's happened. It's the opposite of the broken windows thing. For example, you as a cop see a couple of guys standing around outside a store, one has a bulge in his pants, they're acting nervous, looking around like they're watching out for something. Your experience tells you, these guys are about to hold up that store. You don't know for sure, it's just a gut feeling based on things you've seen before. So once, you might have stopped, approached them, given them a summons, maybe patted one down and found that illegal gun. Now you just keep driving. Sucks for that store owner who gets held up and robbed, but now you're not in danger, nobody is going to accuse you of racial profiling, your job is not in jeopardy. It's self-preservation. You're not *not* doing your job, but you're not being proactive about it either.
Is this a bad thing? Cops would say yes, because they say that proactive policing is what prevents crime. But a lot of people would say no, because now you won't have innocent people getting approached by the police when they weren't doing anything wrong. So I don't know. Maybe these actions will end up being a positive for the city. It's hard to tell what's going to happen.
Post by cookiemdough on Dec 21, 2014 12:23:02 GMT -5
But proactive policing in that situation seems more appropriate than stopping someone for jaywalking or selling cigarettes. Imminent harm in your example. I also don't view this as just a police issue. The largest bulk of protests started after grand jury findings. It is the overall justice system not just police tactics.
But proactive policing in that situation seems more appropriate than stopping someone for jaywalking or selling cigarettes. Imminent harm in your example. I also don't view this as just a police issue. The largest bulk of protests started after grand jury findings. It is the overall justice system not just police tactics.
Well this feeling and this conflict between the NYPD and the mayor has been going on since before all the protests started and before the grand jury findings, so it's not just about that. The issues overlap some, but they're not necessarily the same. That is to say, the police aren't just angry at De Blasio because of his supporting the protestors - it's a lot of things and that particular part was another log on the fire.
They can't strike? Bah. I know Chicago struck in my lifetime, but I assume legislation was passed since.
What a mess. Deep down in the roots where we can't get at it. Hopeless.
It's a NYS law - they call it the Taylor law. Public employees are not allowed to strike. In fact, the head of the transit workers union in NYC went to jail for their strike back in 2005 (?).
On Saturday, Mr. Brinsley began his day with bloodshed, according to the police. Before he left for New York, he shot a former girlfriend in Maryland; she survived. He took her phone and offered updates on his plans for the rest of the day.
He was armed with a silver pistol and a desire to spill the blood of police officers.
“I’m Putting Wings On Pigs Today,” Mr. Brinsley wrote on an Instagram posting, according to the police, where he also referenced the death of Eric Garner, who was killed in a confrontation with the police on Staten Island. “They Take 1 Of Ours, Let’s Take 2 of Theirs.”
The mother of the woman he was suspected of shooting alerted the police of the messages at about 1:30 p.m.
The messages were cryptic, suggesting officers would die but not specifying exactly where, and investigators in Maryland scrambled to determine where they had been posted from.
Soon after, they located the posts — and a cellphone carried by Mr. Brinsley — in south Brooklyn.
At 2:10 p.m., the Baltimore County authorities called the 70th Precinct in Brooklyn, where the cellphone had been last located, and told them of the threatening messages. They also faxed a wanted poster to the precinct naming Mr. Brinsley, according to the authorities in Baltimore County.
It was not until 2:45 p.m. that the information circulated widely throughout the Police Department.
At 2:50 p.m., the same information that was shared with the 70th Precinct was sent by Teletype from Baltimore County to the real-time crime center at New York City Police Headquarters.
But by that time, it was too late. Mr. Bratton said at 2:47 p.m. Mr. Brinsley approached the officers and fatally shot them in their car in the 79th Precinct, several miles north of where his cellphone had been located by the Baltimore County police.
Oh, you mean how no one's supporting Brinsley's Second Amendment right to possess a gun despite supporting the rights of other killers to possess guns? Gee, I wonder why.
Post by Velar Fricative on Dec 21, 2014 14:46:05 GMT -5
I'm just so sad and dejected. Two families have been torn apart so needlessly, and if they celebrate Christmas, the timing makes such a difficult time even worse.
But now, we are back to square one. I don't know what's going to happen here politically. But I do know that for the indefinite future, the conversation that needed to happen about police-community relations won't happen. I live in the most pro-NYPD part of this city and it sucks that even saying something so innocuous like, "Police officers need to follow NYPD protocol and community relations need to be improved" is going to peg me as being the equivalent of a cop killer. Fuck that noise. Fuck Ismaaiyl Brinsley for tearing families apart and for changing the direction of this conversation for the worse.
One dude shooting cops means cops are totally justified in choking out and shooting unarmed black dudes who probably did something to deserve it.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, a series of school shooters doesn't mean we have a gun control problem?
I'm not speaking to anyone on this board, btw, just my stupid ass pastor who offered up a prayer for those two cops but hasn't said a fucking word about Ferguson or Garner or the protests. I don't for a minute believe he doesn't know.
It didn't take long for #NYPDLivesMatter to become a trend on twitter. I fear any chance we had for real progress in police and community relations is gone now.
It didn't take long for #NYPDLivesMatter to become a trend on twitter. I fear any chance we had for real progress in police and community relations is gone now.
The thing is, they DO. So I'm not totally outraged by the use of that even if it does appropriate the protest slogan.
I wonder, though, will assholes correct the #NYPDLivesMatter to "All Lives Matter" in the way they corrected #blacklivesmatter?
What's really shitty is that I have friends who were either ambivalent or downright pissed about the Ferguson and Garner protests are using this event to marginalize the protestors. Now, all of these people ave law enforcement backgrounds, either personally or in their families, but that's kind of the fucking point - they can empathize with people like them, but other people are just innately violent, according to what has been implied.
I feel terrible for the families of the officers, though, and I can't say anything in support of protestors without looking like an asshole, it seems.
I'm not speaking to anyone on this board, btw, just my stupid ass pastor who offered up a prayer for those two cops but hasn't said a fucking word about Ferguson or Garner or the protests. I don't for a minute believe he doesn't know.
That's shitty. my pastor offered prayers for these two officers AND Eric Garner and Michael Brown and Tamir Rice today, and has mentioned them in the past, too, which makes me glad to attend this place.
Post by bigoleworm on Dec 21, 2014 19:44:51 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why people cannot be outraged over Brown and Garner and the police shootings. Why do they have to choose? Don't they see that any violence is terrible?
These are all terrible atrocities.
I had someone post on FB that anyone that supports protesters are not supportive of police. The last time I checked, the right to assemble is a right that has nothing to do with being supportive of police officers. Nowhere does it say, if you protest, you have to basically be saying fuck the police.
Luckily the guy is a fucking douche, so no big loss for me.
I've gone on a defriending spree since around Thanksgiving. Every single one was outraged about the protests. Cloaking their racism in code words. I consider every single one of them a douche. I'm about to defriend a bunch more tonight.
I'm not ok with that. I'd be more ok with a strike. Half assing a public safety job is sabotage, and continuing to be paid while doing so is unacceptable, IMO. If that's the plan, they are making it very hard for me to be sympathetic with the force as a whole.
I don't know. Teachers get shit on by politicians on the daily. I don't know why the NYPD thinks it is is entitled to unconditional political support from the mayor. Or the public.
And we can 1000% support police safety and police contributions while also expecting officer professionalism and accountability.
Well police can't legally strike, so that option isn't really there.
I think the biggest impact would be on revenue for the city - if they're not out there issuing summonses, the city isn't bringing in that revenue. That's where the mayor would really feel it.
Already I can tell you that there is a feeling that many cops are much, much more reluctant to put themselves out there in situations that could be volatile or dangerous. This isn't an official edict or anything, just a fairly logical response to everything that's happened. It's the opposite of the broken windows thing. For example, you as a cop see a couple of guys standing around outside a store, one has a bulge in his pants, they're acting nervous, looking around like they're watching out for something. Your experience tells you, these guys are about to hold up that store. You don't know for sure, it's just a gut feeling based on things you've seen before. So once, you might have stopped, approached them, given them a summons, maybe patted one down and found that illegal gun. Now you just keep driving. Sucks for that store owner who gets held up and robbed, but now you're not in danger, nobody is going to accuse you of racial profiling, your job is not in jeopardy. It's self-preservation. You're not *not* doing your job, but you're not being proactive about it either.
Is this a bad thing? Cops would say yes, because they say that proactive policing is what prevents crime. But a lot of people would say no, because now you won't have innocent people getting approached by the police when they weren't doing anything wrong. So I don't know. Maybe these actions will end up being a positive for the city. It's hard to tell what's going to happen.
I would not be at all surprised if New York returns to what it was in the 70's, 80's, and low 90's.
Well police can't legally strike, so that option isn't really there.
I think the biggest impact would be on revenue for the city - if they're not out there issuing summonses, the city isn't bringing in that revenue. That's where the mayor would really feel it.
Already I can tell you that there is a feeling that many cops are much, much more reluctant to put themselves out there in situations that could be volatile or dangerous. This isn't an official edict or anything, just a fairly logical response to everything that's happened. It's the opposite of the broken windows thing. For example, you as a cop see a couple of guys standing around outside a store, one has a bulge in his pants, they're acting nervous, looking around like they're watching out for something. Your experience tells you, these guys are about to hold up that store. You don't know for sure, it's just a gut feeling based on things you've seen before. So once, you might have stopped, approached them, given them a summons, maybe patted one down and found that illegal gun. Now you just keep driving. Sucks for that store owner who gets held up and robbed, but now you're not in danger, nobody is going to accuse you of racial profiling, your job is not in jeopardy. It's self-preservation. You're not *not* doing your job, but you're not being proactive about it either.
Is this a bad thing? Cops would say yes, because they say that proactive policing is what prevents crime. But a lot of people would say no, because now you won't have innocent people getting approached by the police when they weren't doing anything wrong. So I don't know. Maybe these actions will end up being a positive for the city. It's hard to tell what's going to happen.
I would not be at all surprised if New York returns to what it was in the 70's, 80's, and low 90's.
NY has been sliding back down for several years. This is certainly not something that's going to turn the tide and is going to be a giant shove back down. Many things are combining and it's like a perfect storm of awful. And there are a lot of people who have no idea what things were like then and will be really surprised by what it's like going back to the 80s.
I would not be at all surprised if New York returns to what it was in the 70's, 80's, and low 90's.
NY has been sliding back down for several years. This is certainly not something that's going to turn the tide and is going to be a giant shove back down. Many things are combining and it's like a perfect storm of awful. And there are a lot of people who have no idea what things were like then and will be really surprised by what it's like going back to the 80s.
lalalalalalalalalala I can't hear you.
I do know what it was like in the 80s. It's the reason both my family and DH's family moved to suburbia.
But I think with the gentrification of the past 20 years, we will see a huge juxtaposition in terms of neighborhoods affected. Poorer (read: minority) neighborhoods are going to feel it a lot worse than non-minority neighborhoods, IMO. I daresay things won't change in predominantly-white neighborhoods, which will only serve to further increase the lack of willingness to acknowledge the poor relations between police and residents in minority communities.