So Russell Crowe is a sexist jerk

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 14:34:31 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Jan 5, 2015 14:17:32 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Also, I'm pretty sure it was established like back in 2003 or something that Russell Crowe was a sexist jerk so I'm really not sure why people are indignant on his behalf.

Or is just another illustration of how behind in pop culture some of you are? lol

Not jumping to call him a sexist jerk doesn't seem like being indignant. I'm neither annoyed or angry about it. I just don't agree that every angle of his approach in this article is unreasonable for the industry that he is in. He said the actress wanting to play the 21 year old, not a talented actress wanting a good solid role. 

Him ignoring the fact that women's roles are limited by age, I agree is sexist. However, I don't think what he is saying is far fetched or untrue. If an actress wants to continue to play roles of younger women (looking at you Cameron), you're going to find sparse results because the industry doesn't write for that because the industry is sexist and ageist.

There have been very strong roles for older women. Kate Winslet in The Reader, she was both sexy and dynamic. While on this board controversial, Reese in The Wild was also a strong role for a woman in Hollywood. The roles that women win Oscars for aren't normally overly glamorous. Helen Mirren won for the Queen. Meryl Streep was nominated playing a powerful editor in Devil Wears Prada.

Men who play the Gladiator or the cheesy crappy roles they get following that don't win for those roles. He won an Oscar for playing in A Beautiful Mind. Most often, older men get box office hits because their name will sell tickets, not because they're talented actors or out of shape and old.

Read the whole quote.
www.aww.com.au/news-features/in-the-mag/2014/12/russell-crowe-hollywood-actresses-need-to-act-their-age

Russell said that IF you are a woman complaining about the lack of roles then it's because you are a woman who wants to play younger roles . . . which isn't true at all. And Russell Crowe needs to shut it.

Also, cherry picking a couple outliers does not prove your point. Not in the least.

Please read the Slate article I posted above. 67% of the speaking roles in Hollywood are given to men. Tell me again that Russell Crowe has some point, that if Cameron really wanted to work, she'd just play her age and it would all work out for her.

Cameron's problem isn't that she's trying to play 20 year olds. It's that there aren't a lot of roles written for women Cameron's age. But there are a ton of roles written for men of any age. In fact, Hollywood has proven that they will make a man fit if they want him bad enough. Again, see my reference to the Sony hacks and the Steve Jobs flick. Please see movies where Christian Bale has pretty much been ageless for the last twenty years. Same thing for Hugh Jackman.

Speaking of Hugh Jackman, how in the hell do all the X-men movie get to have dynamic parts for men of all ages but you get Halle for five whole minutes (I don't even like that heifer) and Jennifer Lawrence? Mystique is as old as Professor X and Magneto and yet we had to have a young thing play her, right?

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 14:37:26 GMT -5 ttt said:

Nobody is saying that there are zero strong roles for older women. But they are few and far between, especially in comparison to the number of strong roles for men. Even the number of mediocre roles for older women is smaller than the number of mediocre roles for men in the 40-60 age bracket. There's just less work for women over 35, period.

Exactly. There are roles lacking for women in general, whether they be Oscar caliber, comedic, mindless entertainment, b list, or otherwise. They just aren't there.

[heyjude]

I saw a sad Christmas movie a few weeks ago on Lifetime where Mia Sorvino played Mrs Clause.

There's that.

[Deleted]

It should be noted the Bridesmaids was greenlit primarily because Judd Apatow produced it after having at least three major penis centric movies make a shitton of money.

The Heat was made because the director was the same one who did Bridesmaids.

[tacosforlife]

This makes me think of the whole talk about Idris Elba playing James Bond and Rush "Asshole" Limbaugh saying that no, James Bond is white white white and cannot be black.

Well, no. James Bond is white because Hollywood decided James Bond is white. Nothing about the character requires that he be white. James Bond could be black if the director cast a black James Bond.

Similarly, many of the roles in Hollywood are for young actresses because Hollywood has decided the roles are for young actresses. Many of the roles have nothing that would require them to be played by a young actress. The roles could be played by older actresses if the directors cast older actresses.

What makes Russell Crowe sexist/ageist/whateverist is that he didn't say, "Yeah, there are a lot of talented older actresses, but many directors [studios, producers, whatever] refuse to cast them." Instead he said, "Bitches be whiny."

[heyjude]

"There are good roles for women..."

Right.

Activia ads and Mrs Claus.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 14:48:31 GMT -5 heyjude said:

I saw a sad Christmas movie a few weeks ago on Lifetime where Mia Sorvino played Mrs Clause.

There's that.

Well, I mean that's what she gets for wishing she could play 21 year olds. Duh.

And this is where I mention Lupita, who acted her ass off, yo! She is 31 and has a fucking Oscar. Do you know how many projects she has lined up post 12 Years? 3. She's in Star Wars and she's voicing a character in The Jungle Book.

By contrast, Fassbender who is 37 managed to secure a shitton of work following his breakthrough role in Hunger when he was about 30.

[ttt]

Jan 5, 2015 14:53:49 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Jan 5, 2015 14:42:24 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Read the whole quote.
www.aww.com.au/news-features/in-the-mag/2014/12/russell-crowe-hollywood-actresses-need-to-act-their-age

Russell said that IF you are a woman complaining about the lack of roles then it's because you are a woman who wants to play younger roles . . . which isn't true at all. And Russell Crowe needs to shut it.

Also, cherry picking a couple outliers does not prove your point. Not in the least.

Please read the Slate article I posted above. 67% of the speaking roles in Hollywood are given to men. Tell me again that Russell Crowe has some point, that if Cameron really wanted to work, she'd just play her age and it would all work out for her.

Cameron's problem isn't that she's trying to play 20 year olds. It's that there aren't a lot of roles written for women Cameron's age. But there are a ton of roles written for men of any age. In fact, Hollywood has proven that they will make a man fit if they want him bad enough. Again, see my reference to the Sony hacks and the Steve Jobs flick. Please see movies where Christian Bale has pretty much been ageless for the last twenty years. Same thing for Hugh Jackman.

Speaking of Hugh Jackman, how in the hell do all the X-men movie get to have dynamic parts for men of all ages but you get Halle for five whole minutes (I don't even like that heifer) and Jennifer Lawrence? Mystique is as old as Professor X and Magneto and yet we had to have a young thing play her, right?

Not to split hairs, but he said, the woman, not a woman. Specific to a type complaining about not getting a role because they want to be the 21 year old. Not a female lead in general. It seems nuanced, but whatever. That is what I'm taking from it.

He says "the woman" complaining about how roles dried up is complaining because she wants to play a 21 year old, and look, Meryl Streep and Helen Mirren don't have any problems so obviously any woman who complains about roles drying up is being ridiculous. 

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 14:59:09 GMT -5 heyjude said:

"There are good roles for women..."

Right.

Activia ads and Mrs Claus.

It's the Hollywood version of men saying that there are plenty of jobs for women. They have have to do x, y, z to get them and lean in instead of leaning out, and put off having children, and not cry at work, and not wear short skirts, and wear short skirts, and look profession, not not dowdy, and not ask for vacation, but not be a ball buster either. I mean that company over there, they have three women who work in upper management. So it like totally happens.

[heyjude]

Jan 5, 2015 15:02:24 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Jan 5, 2015 14:59:09 GMT -5 heyjude said:

"There are good roles for women..."

Right.

Activia ads and Mrs Claus.

It's the Hollywood version of men saying that there are plenty of jobs for women. They have have to do x, y, z to get them and lean in instead of leaning out, and put off having children, and not cry at work, and not wear short skirts, and wear short skirts, and look profession, not not dowdy, and not ask for vacation, but not be a ball buster either. I mean that company over there, they have three women who work in upper management. So it like totally happens.

This is like the fight I got in with my uncle on Christmas who said there is no pay or gender inequity because his boss is a woman. Yeah.

[Deleted]

I don't understand why we're talking about Cammie D like she's pathetic or something. She'd actually be an example of a working Hollywood actress.

That thing was Diddy, then A-Rod was pretty eww but as an actress, she's the exception. And she disproves Crowe's point because she's willing to play hot and she's not exactly being offered amazing roles. She's working, yes. But she has to keep playing hot to do that.

[AJL]

This video seemed appropriate here.

www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/weekend-update-onedimensional-female-character-from-a-male-driven-comedy/2834508

(And, heyjude, I did not read the whole thread. So it might have already been posted, but I was eating popcorn and too busy looking for a new bag. )

[tacosforlife]

I mean, I've even thought of this while rewatching The West Wing. That show was tailor-made for middle aged actors because while a lot of White House staffers are young, senior aides tend to be a little older.

I know that CJ eventually becomes Chief of Staff, but where I'm at, she's still Press Secretary.
So we've got Martin Sheen, Rob Lowe, Bradley Whitford, Richard Schiff, and John Spencer.

Plus Allison Janney and (with less screen time) Stockard Channing.

Janel Maloney, but a) she was pretty young at the time, and b) she's playing an assistant.

Of course there are other women who make guest appearances, but take the lawyers, for example - Oliver Platt and John Laraquette are both older and have guest roles as White House counsel while the only female member from the counsel's office was played by Emily Procter, who was 32 at the time of her first appearance.

WW was a show that could have featured dozens of middle aged actresses over its entire run. Instead, it featured dozens of middle aged men, a handful of middle aged women, and a handful of young women. Plus Mrs. Landingham for a hot minute.

[heyjude]

Jan 5, 2015 15:06:27 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I don't understand why we're talking about Cammie D like she's pathetic or something. She'd actually be an example of a working Hollywood actress.

That thing was Diddy, then A-Rod was pretty eww but as an actress, she's the exception. And she disproves Crowe's point because she's willing to play hot and she's not exactly being offered amazing roles. She's working, yes. But she has to keep playing hot to do that.

She got to play the hot mom in sex tape. Her 42 to Jason Segal's 34, who played the dad. I'm not sure what this does to Crowe's argument or the bigger discussion here but I like her and she seems to own her schtick and her roles.

[ttt]

Jan 5, 2015 15:09:05 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:01:16 GMT -5 ttt said:

He says "the woman" complaining about how roles dried up is complaining because she wants to play a 21 year old, and look, Meryl Streep and Helen Mirren don't have any problems so obviously any woman who complains about roles drying up is being ridiculous. 

Meryl and Helen are not having problems because they're not trying to be 21 in their roles. Which is what he's calling out. Again his sexism shows more when he mentions those two because it's clear that they get roles playing women their age that are dynamic. 

Again, my interpretation, at least in the first paragraph, is the older women in Hollywood that are trying to just be 21 year old sexpots and complain that there is no work. To completely ignore why that is the case i.e. the sexist industry, or that work outside of sexy-side-girls realm is noteworthy--him bringing in Helen and Meryl into the conversation -- is sexist. I agree with that. I also agree that the industry does not make more roles for older women that aren't ridiculously tired or typecast. 

I think we're just interpreting his comment differently. I read it as "the only actresses who are having problems with roles are the ones who are 45 and trying to play 21. Actresses who are willing to play 45 year olds are doing just fine. Because Meryl Streep." And to me, that shows an astonishing lack of understanding of how things actually are for actresses over 35. 

[heyjude]

Jan 5, 2015 15:10:16 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

I mean, I've even thought of this while rewatching The West Wing. That show was tailor-made for middle aged actors because while a lot of White House staffers are young, senior aides tend to be a little older.

I know that CJ eventually becomes Chief of Staff, but where I'm at, she's still Press Secretary.
So we've got Martin Sheen, Rob Lowe, Bradley Whitford, Richard Schiff, and John Spencer.

Plus Allison Janney and (with less screen time) Stockard Channing.

Janel Maloney, but a) she was pretty young at the time, and b) she's playing an assistant.

Of course there are other women who make guest appearances, but take the lawyers, for example - Oliver Platt and John Laraquette are both older and have guest roles as White House counsel while the only female member from the counsel's office was played by Emily Procter, who was 32 at the time of her first appearance.

WW was a show that could have featured dozens of middle aged actresses over its entire run. Instead, it featured dozens of middle aged men, a handful of middle aged women, and a handful of young women. Plus Mrs. Landingham for a hot minute.

I have decided that I hate everything Aaron Sorkin does as it is now abundantly clear that all his material is just a big fat kiss to the dominance and importance of white men. All of it. All of it. Even West Wing. The News Room has ruined it all.

[mominatrix]

Jan 5, 2015 15:12:48 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:09:05 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Meryl and Helen are not having problems because they're not trying to be 21 in their roles. Which is what he's calling out. Again his sexism shows more when he mentions those two because it's clear that they get roles playing women their age that are dynamic. 

Again, my interpretation, at least in the first paragraph, is the older women in Hollywood that are trying to just be 21 year old sexpots and complain that there is no work. To completely ignore why that is the case i.e. the sexist industry, or that work outside of sexy-side-girls realm is noteworthy--him bringing in Helen and Meryl into the conversation -- is sexist. I agree with that. I also agree that the industry does not make more roles for older women that aren't ridiculously tired or typecast. 

I think we're just interpreting his comment differently. I read it as "the only actresses who are having problems with roles are the ones who are 45 and trying to play 21. Actresses who are willing to play 45 year olds are doing just fine. Because Meryl Streep." And to me, that shows an astonishing lack of understanding of how things actually are for actresses over 35. 

but this is one of the problems...

Meryl Streep is 65. Helen Mirren is 69.


There's a HUGE difference between women in their 60's playing "mature" roles... and women in their 30's and 40's suddenly being considered sexless because they aren't 22.

[Deleted]

Although to be fair, with the exception of The Green Hornet, which I haven't seen so I'm just assuming here, Cammie is actually just hot in general, not necessarily playing a hot bimbo.

Can I give props to Jason Segal here though? I don't know if I can explain it well but his movies seem less Hollywood than typical Hollywood movies. Of course he's slightly tubby and his on screen interests are pretty hot, but they are close in age, the relationships are normalish considering it's a movie, and it's not all about hotness. I like the way he writes women when he writes them and I like the movies he chooses to do. They feel atypical to Hollywood comedies about relationships.

[tacosforlife]

Jan 5, 2015 15:09:05 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:01:16 GMT -5 ttt said:

He says "the woman" complaining about how roles dried up is complaining because she wants to play a 21 year old, and look, Meryl Streep and Helen Mirren don't have any problems so obviously any woman who complains about roles drying up is being ridiculous. 

Meryl and Helen are not having problems because they're not trying to be 21 in their roles. Which is what he's calling out. Again his sexism shows more when he mentions those two because it's clear that they get roles playing women their age that are dynamic. 

Again, my interpretation, at least in the first paragraph, is the older women in Hollywood that are trying to just be 21 year old sexpots and complain that there is no work. To completely ignore why that is the case i.e. the sexist industry, or that work outside of sexy-side-girls realm is noteworthy--him bringing in Helen and Meryl into the conversation -- is sexist. I agree with that. I also agree that the industry does not make more roles for older women that aren't ridiculously tired or typecast. 

If that's how you read it, then I want him to name names.

I can't really think of any actresses between 40 and 55 who are trying to be 21-year-old sexpots. And if I can, they are probably doing so because they can't find roles for a 40- to 55-year-old actress.

The Interstellar reference was a great example. This isn't to say that Anne Hathaway wasn't good in the movie. But why was a 32-year-old playing her role? Frankly, for that level of education, the role should have gone to Mary-Louise Parker or Julianne Moore or [insert any other 50-year-old actress here]. Her father was played by Michael Caine, who is 81. Yet, as was pointed out, in Tammy, only 24 years separated the title character from her grandmother. Nothing about Anne Hathaway's role in Interstellar required it be played by a "21-year-old ingenue," as Russell Crowe says. That role could just as easily have gone to someone 10 or even 20 years older than Hathaway. And that's just one example. I'm sure we could find scores of others.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 15:12:48 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:09:05 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Meryl and Helen are not having problems because they're not trying to be 21 in their roles. Which is what he's calling out. Again his sexism shows more when he mentions those two because it's clear that they get roles playing women their age that are dynamic. 

Again, my interpretation, at least in the first paragraph, is the older women in Hollywood that are trying to just be 21 year old sexpots and complain that there is no work. To completely ignore why that is the case i.e. the sexist industry, or that work outside of sexy-side-girls realm is noteworthy--him bringing in Helen and Meryl into the conversation -- is sexist. I agree with that. I also agree that the industry does not make more roles for older women that aren't ridiculously tired or typecast. 

I think we're just interpreting his comment differently. I read it as "the only actresses who are having problems with roles are the ones who are 45 and trying to play 21. Actresses who are willing to play 45 year olds are doing just fine. Because Meryl Streep." And to me, that shows an astonishing lack of understanding of how things actually are for actresses over 35. 

Not to mention the fact that Meryl Streep is 65 and Helen Mirren 69.

I'm really surprised he didn't mentioned Jennifer Connolly or Cate Blanchett. They are 44 and 45 and he's worked with both recently.

[heyjude]

Jan 5, 2015 15:15:45 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Although to be fair, with the exception of The Green Hornet, which I haven't seen so I'm just assuming here, Cammie is actually just hot in general, not necessarily playing a hot bimbo.

Can I give props to Jason Segal here though? I don't know if I can explain it well but his movies seem less Hollywood than typical Hollywood movies. Of course he's slightly tubby and his on screen interests are pretty hot, but they are close in age, the relationships are normalish considering it's a movie, and it's not all about hotness. I like the way he writes women when he writes them and I like the movies he chooses to do. They feel atypical to Hollywood comedies about relationships.

In Sex Tape, she's the one obsessed with sex and getting it all the time. And he's like, but I'm tired. Or whatever role reversal going on. So yes. Agree again.

[tacosforlife]

Jan 5, 2015 15:14:59 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:10:16 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

I mean, I've even thought of this while rewatching The West Wing. That show was tailor-made for middle aged actors because while a lot of White House staffers are young, senior aides tend to be a little older.

I know that CJ eventually becomes Chief of Staff, but where I'm at, she's still Press Secretary.
So we've got Martin Sheen, Rob Lowe, Bradley Whitford, Richard Schiff, and John Spencer.

Plus Allison Janney and (with less screen time) Stockard Channing.

Janel Maloney, but a) she was pretty young at the time, and b) she's playing an assistant.

Of course there are other women who make guest appearances, but take the lawyers, for example - Oliver Platt and John Laraquette are both older and have guest roles as White House counsel while the only female member from the counsel's office was played by Emily Procter, who was 32 at the time of her first appearance.

WW was a show that could have featured dozens of middle aged actresses over its entire run. Instead, it featured dozens of middle aged men, a handful of middle aged women, and a handful of young women. Plus Mrs. Landingham for a hot minute.

I have decided that I hate everything Aaron Sorkin does as it is now abundantly clear that all his material is just a big fat kiss to the dominance and importance of white men. All of it. All of it. Even West Wing. The News Room has ruined it all.

I'm kind of here.

But we are rewatching it anyway. H enjoys it, and since he works in politics and hates his job, I am willing to let him have this little joy. And the acting is good in it, ESPECIALLY Allison Janney.

But yeah, the sexism is SO SO SO bad. Much worse on a second viewing, if for no other reason than I am much more ANGRYHARPY than I was when I first saw the show. Fuckin' raised consciousness.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 15:18:09 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Cameron is landing the roles of younger actresses. Similarly to the older men, because she sells tickets. The roles she's playing aren't like prime acting. Mostly rom-coms. She is kind of going against what he is saying, but she definitely isn't some fresh faced 24 year old. (I'm not hating on her because she looks amazing for her age, she just doesn't look like a 20-something, also not saying that not being a 20-something is bad. Disclaimer to the disclaimer.)

If she didn't have the history and the success in playing those types of roles, I don't think she would even be considered. Which is why I mentioned her. Her roles are also not that of some grandma.

Honestly, Cammie is still working because she wants to work and hustles hard for work. She also didn't take a break to have babies and find it hard to get roles afterwards.

[heyjude]

Jan 5, 2015 15:21:16 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:14:59 GMT -5 heyjude said:

I have decided that I hate everything Aaron Sorkin does as it is now abundantly clear that all his material is just a big fat kiss to the dominance and importance of white men. All of it. All of it. Even West Wing. The News Room has ruined it all.

I'm kind of here.

But we are rewatching it anyway. H enjoys it, and since he works in politics and hates his job, I am willing to let him have this little joy. And the acting is good in it, ESPECIALLY Allison Janney.

But yeah, the sexism is SO SO SO bad. Much worse on a second viewing, if for no other reason than I am much more ANGRYHARPY than I was when I first saw the show. Fuckin' raised consciousness.

Well we are still watching News Room. I just like to hate watch and point out to my H all the sexist parts of it.

The show starts with an epic mansplain (in which he actually and unironically argues for a time when "men were great") and it doesn't get any better from there.

[tacosforlife]

Jan 5, 2015 15:22:57 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:12:48 GMT -5 ttt said:

I think we're just interpreting his comment differently. I read it as "the only actresses who are having problems with roles are the ones who are 45 and trying to play 21. Actresses who are willing to play 45 year olds are doing just fine. Because Meryl Streep." And to me, that shows an astonishing lack of understanding of how things actually are for actresses over 35. 

We must be, because I can see what you're saying through that interpretation. I see the irritation and offense in that. Also his lack of recognition for why so many women feel it necessary to go for those younger roles.

I can also see where he is coming from from the first paragraph and how he reflects on it himself. Which to me seemed more like an empathetic embrace your age instead of trying to be the 21 yr old sexpot. Which was less offensive. 

But I find that incredibly condescending. Because it's coming from a man who has no trouble getting roles despite his age. Meanwhile, 50-year-old actresses have approximately 3 roles per year to fight over.

So really, no matter how he meant it, it was AT BEST completely tone deaf. Due to his male privilege. So ultimately we're back to sexism.

[tacosforlife]

Jan 5, 2015 15:25:08 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Jan 5, 2015 15:21:16 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

I'm kind of here.

But we are rewatching it anyway. H enjoys it, and since he works in politics and hates his job, I am willing to let him have this little joy. And the acting is good in it, ESPECIALLY Allison Janney.

But yeah, the sexism is SO SO SO bad. Much worse on a second viewing, if for no other reason than I am much more ANGRYHARPY than I was when I first saw the show. Fuckin' raised consciousness.

Well we are still watching News Room. I just like to hate watch and point out to my H all the sexist parts of it.

The show starts with an epic mansplain (in which he actually and unironically argues for a time when "men were great") and it doesn't get any better than there.

Yeah, I gave up on Newsroom maybe halfway through the first season?

[hopecounts]

Jan 5, 2015 14:56:43 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

This makes me think of the whole talk about Idris Elba playing James Bond and Rush "Asshole" Limbaugh saying that no, James Bond is white white white and cannot be black.

Well, no. James Bond is white because Hollywood decided James Bond is white. Nothing about the character requires that he be white. James Bond could be black if the director cast a black James Bond.

Similarly, many of the roles in Hollywood are for young actresses because Hollywood has decided the roles are for young actresses. Many of the roles have nothing that would require them to be played by a young actress. The roles could be played by older actresses if the directors cast older actresses.

What makes Russell Crowe sexist/ageist/whateverist is that he didn't say, "Yeah, there are a lot of talented older actresses, but many directors [studios, producers, whatever] refuse to cast them." Instead he said, "Bitches be whiny."

To be fair James Bond is white because that is how he is written in the books, he is a literary character and has a specific description from that used by Hollywood when they adapted them from Fleming's books.
Same as Sherlock being white.

[Deleted]

I see far more men in Hollywood trying to be forever young than Hollywood women trying to play a 21 year old sexpot.

Yes, there is a plastic surgery issue but I'd say that's due entirely to trying to keep the attention of casting directors and look young rather than acting young or going for parts that are written for 22 year old women.

The fact of the matter is that there are a wide swath of roles in Hollywood for men that can be filled by pretty much anyone from 29 to 55. They will make him look older or younger or change out the costars to make it work. Or not change up the costars because who cares.

But there are decidedly less roles for women and they won't swap them out either. Except for Sue Storm. Because Jessica Alba can be blond with blue eyes but Idris can't be Bond.

[heyjude]

Jan 5, 2015 15:28:16 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Jan 5, 2015 14:56:43 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

This makes me think of the whole talk about Idris Elba playing James Bond and Rush "Asshole" Limbaugh saying that no, James Bond is white white white and cannot be black.

Well, no. James Bond is white because Hollywood decided James Bond is white. Nothing about the character requires that he be white. James Bond could be black if the director cast a black James Bond.

Similarly, many of the roles in Hollywood are for young actresses because Hollywood has decided the roles are for young actresses. Many of the roles have nothing that would require them to be played by a young actress. The roles could be played by older actresses if the directors cast older actresses.

What makes Russell Crowe sexist/ageist/whateverist is that he didn't say, "Yeah, there are a lot of talented older actresses, but many directors [studios, producers, whatever] refuse to cast them." Instead he said, "Bitches be whiny."

To be fair James Bond is white because that is how he is written in the books, he is a literary character and has a specific description from that used by Hollywood when they adapted them from Fleming's books.
Same as Sherlock being white.

To this I say....

And....?

It's not like we are changing the skin color of Jesus.

Oh. Wait. Never mind.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2015 15:27:55 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Jan 5, 2015 14:31:47 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Misogyny and racism, absolutely, yes, beyond all argument are the same thing.

Is this current discussion exactly analogous to the shooting of black men by police? No.

But it is very much so analogous to people viewing black men and black folks in general as more dangerous and less trustworthy than white folks.

Why? Because just like Hollywood writes out women, reducing them sex objects, shrews, or plot points, Hollywood is also partially responsible for writing black men, especially large and/or dark ones as scary menaces who are probably into gang violence, drug dealing, and other shifty behavior.

To say there are absolutely no parallels here is a level of stupidity I cannot fathom.

But go on and keep being touchy. Clearly we're all talking about poor Sandra Bullock not getting enough money and fame and NOT the large, wide scale problem of how Hollywood continually uses it's time and energy to shoring up the system of oppression of both gender and race around the world.

Sure, white women aren't being shot for stealing cigarettes but women as a whole are suffering from gender discrimination in the workplace, in the home, on the streets, etc. And that gender discrimination isn't relegated to mere pay disparity.

To be clear, I wasn't comparing it to cops shooting black men.  I was comparing it to arrests and incarcerations.  Like, hey don't break the law and you won't get arrested and go to jail.  Yeah... that's totally what the problem is.  And I do think Hollywood's portrayal of women contributes to rape culture.  So, I think it's a little more important than just a question of white women working.  But I think we're basically on the same page anyway.  

Yes, we are on the same page, I promise. I didn't think you were comparing it to shooting black men either. But she did so I was trying to break it down for her lol.