4 year olds-anxiety?

[faith194]

DS turned four this past October. The last month or do, I feel like his anxiety is getting worse.

1. He still won't poop on the potty- says he is scared(he did it from 15 months-25 months just fine). He gets full on shaking and freak out mode if he sits on it, unless he has his Leap Pad- but he don't poop while playing it. I am thinking of setting up another appointment with his pedi about it. We are breezy now about it, but it is still frustrating.

2. He won't go into a room by himself. We live in a small one-level ranch. If we ask him to get something in his bedroom, he wants someone with him. Pee on the potty? Someone has to be with him. He rarely wants to be alone, including nap and bedtime(calls us to his room at least 6 times over a span of an hour). He has never been a great sleeper, but was remarkably better at 3.

3. When he gets upset, he has trouble resetting himself. He screams "I want to be good! I want to make good decisions!" But can't snap out if it. It is like he needs one major freak out a day, but it can go on for a while. We have taught him to take some deep breaths, to close his eyes and think of something happy,- none of that works. I am wondering if being cooped up all winter is part of his issue? Summertime- he is outside most of the day, and he loves to run. With -10 temps lately, we have been stuck inside.

Any advice? Is any of this something I should set up an appointment for? TIA

[oliviapope]

All of this should be mentioned to your pedi. I would even consider a developmental pedi to see if there is anything else going on. This may seem odd, but by any chance did he happen to have the cord around his neck when born?

[sjh722]

My sister had really severe anxiety about death around age 4 (my uncle was killed in a plane crash). I know the pedi had my mom take her to a therapist for awhile. I think it's worthy of a mention to the pedi.

[july]

Have you talked to him about his fears? Have you tried a training potty instead of the toilet? Does he see others go on the toilet or read books about it?

Does he really not go into rooms alone? My daughter is similar, but will go into rooms sometimes. If she wants something from her room, she will want me to come with her. She expects me to sit on the tub while she goes to the potty. She wants to be close to me all the time; it is not anxiety to me. I have never taught this was odd toddler behavior. However, this is not all the time. She has gone to play in her room on her own. Sometimes I go with her, other times I ignore it, and then sometimes I will compromise by going halfway. It is improving with age, but was worse in the past.

If this is constant and you have tried other things, I would bring it up. 

[july]

Jan 17, 2015 9:09:51 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

All of this should be mentioned to your pedi. I would even consider a developmental pedi to see if there is anything else going on. This may seem odd, but by any chance did he happen to have the cord around his neck when born?

What does the cord have to do with it? My daughter had the cord around her neck.

[anaps28]

Have you had any big changes recently? Sometimes that can trigger things.

My DS turns 4 in March and we recently overcame a major hurdle with pooping but it sounded a lot like your description. We pee trained in a heartbeat but he refused to poop on the potty. I was pregnant and SO sick everyday so I didn't really have the energy to push pooping on the potty and just gave him a pull up. Well when the baby came he decided he was going to HOLD his poop even refusing the pull up. He would say he was scared of pooping and would carry on like we had lit him on fire if we tried to get him to go. So the pedi recommended giving him a quarter cap of Miralax every day for a few week. I started just with one week and would give him culturelle. He had to go so badly but would get himself so worked up it was so sad and frustrating for everyone. My husband would have to sit in the bathroom with him holding his hand and coach him through it.

I remember asking my pedi about some behaviors I thought were issues and she said that at 3 turning 4 they are going through so many changes that sometimes its just a phase that they have to work through and if the behavior continues over a longer period of time then it should be addressed professionally. Of course at the time you feel like your drowning it and it consumes you as a parent. I think its worth a conversation with your pedi maybe they can recommend a behavioral therapist that can give you the tools to help him work through this.

[faith194]

No major changes that I can identify. He is an only. DH stays home with him like usual(I am home in the summer). I wish I could identify something. We had a death in the family in May, but he rarely saw her.

We have many options for him with the potty- even a travel potty he used last summer. We have several books. He knows that pooping on the potty is a normal thing- all of his friends at school do it. His BFF does it at well, and they are only 2 weeks apart. He is on Mirilax, because we want through several bouts with withholding.


He was born via section with nothing out of the usual.

I will call his pedi on Monday. If he needs to see someone, I would like to start it now. I just wasn't sure what the norm is. Thanks!

[mrsg123]

Jan 17, 2015 9:09:51 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

All of this should be mentioned to your pedi. I would even consider a developmental pedi to see if there is anything else going on. This may seem odd, but by any chance did he happen to have the cord around his neck when born?

What??

[curbsideprophet]

I am curious to hear more about the cord around the neck issue.

[pierogigirl]

I think I would ask the pedi for a referral to a developmental pedi. The wait for an appointment can be long and I think you are right to want to start something as soon as possible.

[oliviapope]

Jan 17, 2015 9:22:47 GMT -5 july said:

Jan 17, 2015 9:09:51 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

All of this should be mentioned to your pedi. I would even consider a developmental pedi to see if there is anything else going on. This may seem odd, but by any chance did he happen to have the cord around his neck when born?

What does the cord have to do with it? My daughter had the cord around her neck.

I work in neuro psych research. I am currently on a project linking behavior and movement. I can't say too much right now, but we are seeing a connection between certain reflexive movements babies do in the womb, and emotion regulation. Having the cord around their neck prohibits this motion and is being linked to higher anxiety even in toddler/preschool age.
I was asking for my own personal reasons. 2/3 of my kids had cords around their necks and also have issues with emotion regulation.

[whereintheworld]

I take my almost 5yo to a private psychologist office for play therapy. He exhibits a lot of anxiety and weekly therapy gives him and us some tools to manage this. I would look in to an evaluation in your case.

[oliviapope]

Jan 17, 2015 12:00:51 GMT -5 incogneato said:

Jan 17, 2015 11:26:44 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

I work in neuro psych research. I am currently on a project linking behavior and movement. I can't say too much right now, but we are seeing a connection between certain reflexive movements babies do in the womb, and emotion regulation. Having the cord around their neck prohibits this motion and is being linked to higher anxiety even in toddler/preschool age.
I was asking for my own personal reasons. 2/3 of my kids had cords around their necks and also have issues with emotion regulation.

Interesting. Do you ID the cord issues through U/S, because it seems like cord around neck during birth doesn't necessarily mean it was there through all/most of pregnancy, right?

We are using both methods. However, this particular movement doesn't appear until the last few weeks of pregnancy, so there is a close correlation. It does seem that the cord is prohibiting practicing of this movement, and it is showing up hyperactive or hypo active in many children which is also correlating to emotional and self regulation challenges.

[Willis Jackson]

DS1 got more fearful when it started getting dark early.

[oliviapope]

Jan 17, 2015 15:14:18 GMT -5 incogneato said:

oliviapope that's really interesting! good luck with the research! I think my DD1 had the cord wrapped around her neck, but she was also born at 36 weeks so I guess by the time she would have needed that mobility, she was no longer constricted because she was out of the womb early. :-)

Well it could also mean that since she wasn't able to "practice" the movement, then she could see effects of that. I had no idea how much behavior and sensory stuff and movement were tied together until this. It has been eye opening and hopefully will be ground breaking. I certainly had such a limited knowledge of why we developed a certain way.

Nothing is always true for anyone, but sometimes if we know things about the birth-then we are able to teach the body that movement earlier and create change. I am certainly excited to see where this goes. I am lucky I get to be a research nurse on the team

[amaristella]

If he has had issues with constipation at any point then he may have had a painful bowel movement in relation to potty training and that would explain his fear of the toilet. I'm not sure how but that would likely need to be addressed before he feels comfortable trying again. Definitely I would ask the doctor about all of those concerns aggregately. (Maybe they can refer you out if it's beyond their specialty)

[amaristella]

Jan 17, 2015 11:26:44 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

Jan 17, 2015 9:22:47 GMT -5 july said:

What does the cord have to do with it? My daughter had the cord around her neck.

I work in neuro psych research. I am currently on a project linking behavior and movement. I can't say too much right now, but we are seeing a connection between certain reflexive movements babies do in the womb, and emotion regulation. Having the cord around their neck prohibits this motion and is being linked to higher anxiety even in toddler/preschool age.
I was asking for my own personal reasons. 2/3 of my kids had cords around their necks and also have issues with emotion regulation.

My son had the cord around his neck twice and only just now is even starting to show any signs of learning to regulate his emotions. (This is why Cry-it-out and Ferber of ANY kind have not been an option for my son). Edit: I see you mention it's related to late pregnancy. A was born right at 38 weeks. He could not wait his turn.

[oliviapope]

Jan 17, 2015 8:58:20 GMT -5 faith194 said:

DS turned four this past October. The last month or do, I feel like his anxiety is getting worse.

1. He still won't poop on the potty- says he is scared(he did it from 15 months-25 months just fine). He gets full on shaking and freak out mode if he sits on it, unless he has his Leap Pad- but he don't poop while playing it. I am thinking of setting up another appointment with his pedi about it. We are breezy now about it, but it is still frustrating.

2. He won't go into a room by himself. We live in a small one-level ranch. If we ask him to get something in his bedroom, he wants someone with him. Pee on the potty? Someone has to be with him. He rarely wants to be alone, including nap and bedtime(calls us to his room at least 6 times over a span of an hour). He has never been a great sleeper, but was remarkably better at 3.

3. When he gets upset, he has trouble resetting himself. He screams "I want to be good! I want to make good decisions!" But can't snap out if it. It is like he needs one major freak out a day, but it can go on for a while. We have taught him to take some deep breaths, to close his eyes and think of something happy,- none of that works. I am wondering if being cooped up all winter is part of his issue? Summertime- he is outside most of the day, and he loves to run. With -10 temps lately, we have been stuck inside.

Any advice? Is any of this something I should set up an appointment for? TIA

I am sorry I didn't address your specific question earlier. Definitely call for an appointment with a developmental pedi. I missed that he has been afraid and not been pooping in the potty for two years?!

The developmental pedi will be a great start. To address the "being cooped up" part. Make sure he can move, dance/karate/tumbling. These will all help with that part during the winter.

[oliviapope]

Jan 17, 2015 16:51:49 GMT -5 amaristella said:

Jan 17, 2015 11:26:44 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

I work in neuro psych research. I am currently on a project linking behavior and movement. I can't say too much right now, but we are seeing a connection between certain reflexive movements babies do in the womb, and emotion regulation. Having the cord around their neck prohibits this motion and is being linked to higher anxiety even in toddler/preschool age.
I was asking for my own personal reasons. 2/3 of my kids had cords around their necks and also have issues with emotion regulation.

My son had the cord around his neck twice and only just now is even starting to show any signs of learning to regulate his emotions. (This is why Cry-it-out and Ferber of ANY kind have not been an option for my son). Edit: I see you mention it's related to late pregnancy. A was born right at 38 weeks. He could not wait his turn.

Actually we are finding the last 10 weeks to be super important. Also, this is a movement that is necessary and used for the birth process. So c-sections babies tend to have this issue as well. 2 of my kids were cord and c-sections and are definitely struggling with emotion regulation. It is just interesting to me to see research cross with personal stuff.

[amaristella]

Jan 17, 2015 19:09:00 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

Jan 17, 2015 16:51:49 GMT -5 amaristella said:

My son had the cord around his neck twice and only just now is even starting to show any signs of learning to regulate his emotions. (This is why Cry-it-out and Ferber of ANY kind have not been an option for my son). Edit: I see you mention it's related to late pregnancy. A was born right at 38 weeks. He could not wait his turn.

Actually we are finding the last 10 weeks to be super important. Also, this is a movement that is necessary and used for the birth process. So c-sections babies tend to have this issue as well. 2 of my kids were cord and c-sections and are definitely struggling with emotion regulation. It is just interesting to me to see research cross with personal stuff.

That is so interesting. The midwife said she could see him turning himself in the birth canal and she almost felt like he was communicating with her and when she found the cord wrapped twice she said that maybe that restriction was why he turned himself. I guess I will keep an eye out some day when you guys publish your results.

[bronxgirl]

oliviapope that is really interesting. I'd love to hear more about your research as it develops. my daughter had her cord wrapped 2 or 3 times around her neck and was a C-section baby. She's had some anxiety.

[faith194]

After playing phone tag for a couple days with a nurse from our pedi office, we are being referred to a psychologist. I hope we can get some answers!

[imojoebunny]

Jan 17, 2015 11:26:44 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

Jan 17, 2015 9:22:47 GMT -5 july said:

What does the cord have to do with it? My daughter had the cord around her neck.

I work in neuro psych research. I am currently on a project linking behavior and movement. I can't say too much right now, but we are seeing a connection between certain reflexive movements babies do in the womb, and emotion regulation. Having the cord around their neck prohibits this motion and is being linked to higher anxiety even in toddler/preschool age.
I was asking for my own personal reasons. 2/3 of my kids had cords around their necks and also have issues with emotion regulation.

My son had his cord around his neck and he is cool as a cucumber.  No anxiety that is noticeable, and behaves unless he is tired or hungry.  

To to the OP:
1.  My niece would only poop in a pull up at that age.  My SIL bribed her with a toy she really wanted if she used the toilet to poop for a month.  That worked, but some kids can be afraid if they have gone through periods of constipation, since it can make poops more painful and harder.  A little fiber supplement can help move things along.  It's worth discussing with your ped

2. My kids 8 and 5 and my BFF's 9 year old don't like to go into rooms by themselves.  He may also be manipulating you with the bedtime, nap time "fear". You might try "rewarding" him, like if you don't come out of your room or call mommy and daddy after we put you to bed, you can watch a show tomorrow.  We started penalizing my son because he would come out 10 times a night.  I finally took away something he really loved temporarily, and he stopped for the most part.  

3. Can you give him a safe place to go when he loses it?  My DD likes to go to her room.  She will scream and call me names (like meany, not bitch:-) as long as she stays in her room, there is no further punishment.  DS "needs me to hold him" to calm down, but first he has to lose it.  I try to just ignore it, until he gets to the hold me part, unless he does something like physical that is not allowed, like the other day, he was super tired and threw dirt at me.  

[faith194]

Thanks, everyone! He stopped pooping on the potty at 25 months after a bad case of pneumonia- we didn't force it. He was then hospitalized twice after that within a few months, so we were too busy working on on getting his meds in him, so we gave up in the poop fight.

He was constipated for quite a while, but has been on Miralax since November. He said once his poops were soft, he would poop on the potty. Nope:( he has a pop chart and we have down mini rewards for when he was successful(he has done it 11 times in the last 6 months). His big reward was a trip to a playplace(Billy Beez). He intellectually gets it, but there is a real fear there.

I will try the reward system tonight! He doesn't get out of bed(thank you OK to Wake Owl), but we will see if a TV show will help- they are his rewards for being kind and staying out if time out.

Thanks!

[oliviapope]

Jan 26, 2015 16:30:17 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

Jan 17, 2015 11:26:44 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

I work in neuro psych research. I am currently on a project linking behavior and movement. I can't say too much right now, but we are seeing a connection between certain reflexive movements babies do in the womb, and emotion regulation. Having the cord around their neck prohibits this motion and is being linked to higher anxiety even in toddler/preschool age.
I was asking for my own personal reasons. 2/3 of my kids had cords around their necks and also have issues with emotion regulation.

My son had his cord around his neck and he is cool as a cucumber.  No anxiety that is noticeable, and behaves unless he is tired or hungry.  

To to the OP:
1.  My niece would only poop in a pull up at that age.  My SIL bribed her with a toy she really wanted if she used the toilet to poop for a month.  That worked, but some kids can be afraid if they have gone through periods of constipation, since it can make poops more painful and harder.  A little fiber supplement can help move things along.  It's worth discussing with your ped

2. My kids 8 and 5 and my BFF's 9 year old don't like to go into rooms by themselves.  He may also be manipulating you with the bedtime, nap time "fear". You might try "rewarding" him, like if you don't come out of your room or call mommy and daddy after we put you to bed, you can watch a show tomorrow.  We started penalizing my son because he would come out 10 times a night.  I finally took away something he really loved temporarily, and he stopped for the most part.  

3. Can you give him a safe place to go when he loses it?  My DD likes to go to her room.  She will scream and call me names (like meany, not bitch:-) as long as she stays in her room, there is no further punishment.  DS "needs me to hold him" to calm down, but first he has to lose it.  I try to just ignore it, until he gets to the hold me part, unless he does something like physical that is not allowed, like the other day, he was super tired and threw dirt at me.  

Actually the needing someone to be with them at/during bedtime is a sign of anxiety. It is relatively common with the particular parameters we are working with.

[SallySparrow]

Jan 17, 2015 11:26:44 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

Jan 17, 2015 9:22:47 GMT -5 july said:

What does the cord have to do with it? My daughter had the cord around her neck.

I work in neuro psych research. I am currently on a project linking behavior and movement. I can't say too much right now, but we are seeing a connection between certain reflexive movements babies do in the womb, and emotion regulation. Having the cord around their neck prohibits this motion and is being linked to higher anxiety even in toddler/preschool age.
I was asking for my own personal reasons. 2/3 of my kids had cords around their necks and also have issues with emotion regulation.

I am fascinated by this. So interesting.