Post by sweetptater on Jan 19, 2015 11:31:17 GMT -5
I interviewed for a job a couple of weeks ago. Last Friday they called me with a verbal offer. The offer was okay, but I told them that I was currently looking at another position where the salary was $5-$10K more (I'm not), however I was much more enthusiastic about the position they were offering. I asked if they would meet me at $5K more than the verbal offer. The corporate recruiter got all snippy and said he'd have to talk to HR and he'd get back to me. This was around 1pm. At 5pm I emailed him and asked if he had heard anything from HR, to which I received the following response:
Sweetptater:
I will follow up as soon as I get an answer from HR. If that's today I will call you. Otherwise will talk to you at the first of the week.
Recruiter
I'm probably reading too much into the email due to his attitude on the phone, but it just sounds rude to me. Now I'm kicking myself for not just accepting the original offer. I'm TERRIFIED that they're going to come back and tell me no to my counter offer and essentially tell me that they're taking back their offer. What are the odds of that happening? That's not common, right? I HATE my current job and current boss and I need to move on. I haven't had any motivation for months and after getting this offer, I'm completely checked out. Unfortunately this new company is off today for MLK day so I'm not going to hear anything until tomorrow at the earliest.
I feel like I did something wrong. It's okay to negotiate right? And it's not like I asked for them to double it, I asked for 6% more than they offered. I'm so tempted to backpedal my way out of this and tell them that I'll happily accept the original offer, just pleeeeeeeeeease hire me. Ugh, this waiting sucks. I picked a really bad weekend to grow a set of balls.
I wouldn't read too much into it at this point. Wait until closer to the end of the day tomorrow before reaching out again. Hopefully they'll get in touch in the morning. Good luck.
It is definitely okay to negotiate. I hope you just misinterpreted the tone, because negotiating is extremely common. I did the same thing at my current job (minus the mentioning of another offer). They made an offer, I said I was hoping to be at X, but would they be willing to meet me half way? They got back to me the next day and agreed.
I think you were premature emailing him back just a few hours later. They'll get back to you. Give it a bit. Good luck!
ETA: The email wasn't snippy at all. You're nervous & being sensitive. The email was pretty standard.
If the recruiter thought you were lying about the other position when he called with his offer, I'm pretty sure your email just hours later confirmed his suspicions.
I've worked as a recruiter and I didn't like hiring people who lied to me either. It might be an expensive lesson for you.
Yeah, you never lie about another offer. You likely screwed yourself by lying and then emailing so quickly. I hope it works out but you will have to be patient.
Yeah, you never lie about another offer. You likely screwed yourself by lying and then emailing so quickly. I hope it works out but you will have to be patient.
I actually am in talks with another company with that range, so I didn't completely pull it out of thin air. We're just not as far in the process as I implied. They were hoping to have the verbal offer to me in the next couple of weeks, but it's a smaller company and seem to be less organized. I don't think I worded that right in my OP.
don't keep e-mailing them. Wait to see their response.
As far as negotiating, don't feel bad about it. You're worth the extra pay, are you not? You need to be more comfortable in your own self worth or negotiating is wasted effort.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
I think you are probably fine, though I wouldn't have lied and said something more along the lines of "based on my experience blah blah blah I was really hoping to be more in the salary range of X-Y" or something like that.
That said, don't be surprised if they can't meet it. My current job, I asked for more, they couldn't meet it, but offered me an extra week of vacation instead. I took it.
This is a great point about negotiating. If they can't meet your initial requests, there are often other things you can negotiate on. You can also ask for a 6 month performance review. Most of the time I don't expect much from those, but my current job wrote that into my contract and I actually received a 10% bump (putting me over my initial salary requirement).
This is a great point about negotiating. If they can't meet your initial requests, there are often other things you can negotiate on. You can also ask for a 6 month performance review. Most of the time I don't expect much from those, but my current job wrote that into my contract and I actually received a 10% bump (putting me over my initial salary requirement).
I really like this idea. I may ask for this regardless, not even with the intention of a raise. Just to find out where I'm at and to show that I'm committed to improvement.
Negotiating isn't bad, but lying and hounding them for an answer after four hours are both bad. Even if you really are considering another position, pitting a prospective employer against another is not how you negotiate. You negotiate by convincing them you're worth the higher salary, not by saying someone else might think you are, maybe, so they should too.
And his email wasn't rude; you're reading into it. His email was actually not saying what he was probably thinking, which was "omfg, it's been four hours on the last day before a long weekend. People have other things to do."
Lying while negotiating is uncool. It's fine to play your cards close to your chest, but an outright lie is a lie is a lie. Regardless of whether it was or was not concocted wholly out of thin air.
There is nothing remotely rude or snippy about the recruiter's email which, considering it was four hours later on the Friday before a long weekend, shows remarkable restraint on her/his part. Cool your jets and wait for a response. If they reject your proposal, deal with it then.
Post by sweetptater on Jan 26, 2015 12:36:19 GMT -5
I received a verbal offer last week and accepted the position Friday for more than both the original offer and the number I tried to negotiate. (I also received a similar offer from the other, smaller company that I immediately turned down due to the location and my commuting distance, and the fact that I think this company is a better fit for my skill set.)
I thanked the recruiter and told him that looking back I realized that I could have handled the negotiation better, however I appreciated his going to bat for me on this. He said that it was his job to get me the highest numbers he could (which is why he went higher than the number I asked for) and he was just happy that HR had agreed with him that I was the right person for the job.
So even though I completely fucked it up, I'm happy it worked out. I had already realized that if it hadn't worked out, it was my own doing so I'd already accepted whatever would happen with it. I'm also never trying to negotiate anything ever again. With my lack of self-confidence, I'm really not cut out for it.
Glad you got the job! But there's a difference between negotiating and lying. I don't think you're understanding that part. Please don't stop trying to negotiate.
Good update! And don't be so hard on yourself. Negotiating gives me the cold sweats, I can't stand it. At least you put it out there and it worked out ok.
I received a verbal offer last week and accepted the position Friday for more than both the original offer and the number I tried to negotiate. (I also received a similar offer from the other, smaller company that I immediately turned down due to the location and my commuting distance, and the fact that I think this company is a better fit for my skill set.)
I thanked the recruiter and told him that looking back I realized that I could have handled the negotiation better, however I appreciated his going to bat for me on this. He said that it was his job to get me the highest numbers he could (which is why he went higher than the number I asked for) and he was just happy that HR had agreed with him that I was the right person for the job.
So even though I completely fucked it up, I'm happy it worked out. I had already realized that if it hadn't worked out, it was my own doing so I'd already accepted whatever would happen with it. I'm also never trying to negotiate anything ever again. With my lack of self-confidence, I'm really not cut out for it.
I agreed with the above except for the bolded, and liked it because it worked out for you. However, as for the bolded, don't be afraid to negotiate. Practice practice practice if you have to, but if you don't negotiate you'll be stuck at lower pay, lower responsibilities and less respect than you should be afforded. Also, learn to say No or you'll have more on your plate for that lower salary too.
You may never grow up to be a recruiter (ETA: or a union steward ) and negotiate for a living, but you can learn to be assertive. Just do it with integrity next time and every time after that.
Glad you got the job! But there's a difference between negotiating and lying. I don't think you're understanding that part. Please don't stop trying to negotiate.
Yes! And I understand the difference now. It honestly never occurred to me to say "based on my experience and skills with x, y, and z, I think a better suited salary would be in the $$ range." Never, not once. I'm TERRIBLE at selling myself. I've been told before that I'm great at what I do, but my self-doubt gets in my way. I feel like such a fraud most of the time, even though I know that's not the case.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
The stress was killing me. Especially after realizing how badly I messed it up. I'm on anti-anxiety medication for a reason.
Pharma - not sales.
Why do you keep saying you fucked up? You negotiated yourself a higher salary...?
Because I didn't negotiate it correctly. I should have told them why I'm worth the extra money, not "give me more because "X" company is offering me more so you should too."
I did get the higher salary (and a signing bonus, which I have never received before), but I didn't approach it the way I now know I should have.
Listen, I was as hard on you as anyone, but you fuck up, you internalize the lesson, you move on. Hell, I fuck up ON HERE at least once a week. I don't stop posting (probably should, ha), but I do try not to do the wrongest thing yet.
Why do you keep saying you fucked up? You negotiated yourself a higher salary...?
Because I didn't negotiate it correctly. I should have told them why I'm worth the extra money, not "give me more because "X" company is offering me more so you should too."
I did get the higher salary (and a signing bonus, which I have never received before), but I didn't approach it the way I now know I should have.
but the thing is if you indeed had another actual offer, it's completely acceptable to use that approach in negotiation. The only reason you were getting criticism was that it sounded like from your OP that you didn't actually have another offer and were pulling it out of your butt.
Look, you got the job for even more than you asked for. You didn't really fuck up. That means you asked for too little.
Just learn from this. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Because I didn't negotiate it correctly. I should have told them why I'm worth the extra money, not "give me more because "X" company is offering me more so you should too."
I did get the higher salary (and a signing bonus, which I have never received before), but I didn't approach it the way I now know I should have.
but the thing is if you indeed had another actual offer, it's completely acceptable to use that approach in negotiation. The only reason you were getting criticism was that it sounded like from your OP that you didn't actually have another offer and were pulling it out of your butt.
Look, you got the job for even more than you asked for. You didn't really fuck up. That means you asked for too little.
Just learn from this. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Thanks, but the other company hadn't offered me anything yet. I wasn't as far in the process as I led the recruiter to believe, so as everyone else pointed out I did lie about it to him. That won't happen again!
Congrats on getting the job, and the higher salary! But don't let this send you into a pit of despair. Everyone messes up; the best thing you can do is learn from it so you do better next time. I know anxiety is real, and I'm glad you're on meds for it. But knowing how to do it better next time should alleviate some of the anxiety regarding this particular situation.