Purdue University showdown over implementation of YEARLY

[cattledogkisses]

Standardized testing is a giant waste of college students' time.

And honestly, as someone who's been both a student and a TA for awhile now, the biggest factor that determines what students get out of their college education is how much effort they put into it. The students who are invested in their education and take things seriously generally do well. The students don't take it seriously do poorly, and no amount of adjusting the curriculum is going to make that group perform better.

[cattledogkisses]

There are only 14 weeks in a semester. That's already a short amount of time to try to teach all of the material for a class.

How is taking away actual learning time to take standardized tests a good use of anyone's time?

[LoveTrains]

what the eff?!

[tres3]

I knew there was a reason I marked Pence "strongly unfavorable" on my Tennessee Voter Exploratory Republican Presidential Preference Polling Ballot"

WTF WTF

We have too much focus on testing in K-12 College should be about exploring and learning for the sake of learning. The market can and does decide which degrees it values.

[cattledogkisses]

We talk about the sky-high price of tuition all the time here, so how many credit hours will be taken up by this testing, and how much money does that work out to? You want to talk about making sure students get the most for their money? Please.

[emilyj]

This is horseshit. I would be LIVID if I had to give a standardized test, period, let alone one to assess critical thinking.

Who is he in bed with that he's going to profit from by doing this??

[emilyj]

I'm so fired up about this. Everything I teach is critical thinking. It is a fucking battle to get them away from the "what's on the test??" panic mentality. I ask them to think critically, and sometimes it's like I asked them to shank the person next to them. I refuse to give tests/quizzes in my capstone class, because I want them to think, not memorize.

Yearly standardized testing? That thin shred of leverage we do have to get them to think critically would be gone.

[NewOrleans]

Out of control.

[lilibet]

This is such a dumb and very bad idea. What a waste of time and money. Like pp said, there's already such a short amount of time to teach everything anyway, I can't imagine having to fit in time for this too.

I think this will hurt Purdue. They seem to think other schools will follow but I guarantee you if I was looking at college now and read that I'd have to take standardized tests at Purdue, but say Indiana wasn't following this trend I would so cross Purdue off my list and drive over to check out Indiana. And I think a good number of other schools will realize this and won't want to follow their lead.

[NewOrleans]

I just thought I'd remind you all that Arne Duncan has suggested assigning value-added scores to Colleges of Education based on the student test scores belonging to the teachers who graduated from that program.

[5thofjuly]

I don't even know HOW to teach critical thinking. I know how to help students develop critical thinking skills within my discipline. I do my best to foster intellectual curiosity and intellectual humility (two components of critical thinking I think are especially important.) But, some amorphous measure of "critical thinking?" No way. I have no idea what would even be on the test, and it won't be discipline specific. I guess I'd have to get a copy and teach to the test, the thought of which makes me want to barf.

That said, I think this is truly a solution in search of a problem. What seems more likely- that engineers, vets, and pharmacists learned NOTHING about critical thinking over four years or that the test just isn't a good measure of the critical thinking they learned?

Rage!

[5thofjuly]

Jan 24, 2015 17:08:45 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

This is fucking ridiculous. These people are trying to destroy the intellectual and cultural fabric of this country. I want very bad things to happen to them. They obviously don't care about or value education. So go away. Go back to Wall Street. They can make all the crooked money they want. Just leave our schools alone.

I'm envisioning a movie about a futuristic totalitarian society in which the intelligentsia, sick of being forced only to utilize only someone's version of "evidence based practice" and no judgment whatsoever are the underground resistance fighters. If it comes to that, I'd like to be played by Sigourney Weaver circa 1984, please.

I'm not convinced that this push is a drive to make us all worker-drones like some people are- I don't think people like Daniels have the kind of brain power required to think macro-level and long-term. Rather, it's all about the profit and political capital they can personally gain.

[cattledogkisses]

It doesn't even sound like the faculty are outright fighting this as much as they're saying, "Give us some more time so we can try to do this in a way that might have a shot at being meaningful," and he's just like, "Nope, don't care."

[5thofjuly]

Jan 24, 2015 17:26:55 GMT -5 nursecramer said:

Jan 24, 2015 17:10:26 GMT -5 5thofjuly said:

I don't even know HOW to teach critical thinking.

I don't even know what critical thinking is. The field has no consensus for a definition of critical thinking, let alone a standardized way to measure it!

Exactly. The last listing I saw had like 40 different components.

I wish I had the power to determine what was on this test: one question, essay format: "Utilizing example when appropriate, explain why a standardized test of critical thinking is problematic."

[eclaires]

This is seriously asinine.

I do know that senior year my H took (possibly had to take?) some engineering test that pretty much every other engineer had to take (or chose to?). I didn't pay attention just rolled out of bed like a nice girlfriend and drove him to the test on a Saturday. But it might have been optional?

[nsl]

As someone who is under the gun for her high school students' test scores, I can well imagine the level of outrage Purdue faculty are feeling here. It's one thing to be told by your administrators that they want to see data on student outcomes, and another thing entirely to hear that the only data they're going to care about is based on an amorphous concept they're testing using measures that haven't been fully validated.

[NewOrleans]

I personally think it's great. Because what I see happening is that this will awaken professors. My gut tells me the average immunology or French professor doesn't know what's happening out there with testing, unless they have young school-aged kids, which I'm estimating that many profs are slightly too old for (?). Maybe this will be a call to arms and they will join their public school brethren in bringing the system down.

[WOT?*]

Jan 24, 2015 15:41:33 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Standardized testing is a giant waste of college students' time.

And honestly, as someone who's been both a student and a TA for awhile now, the biggest factor that determines what students get out of their college education is how much effort they put into it. The students who are invested in their education and take things seriously generally do well. The students don't take it seriously do poorly, and no amount of adjusting the curriculum is going to make that group perform better.

FTFY.

[penguingrrl]

This is insanity and without a doubt it comes down to him having a crony at Pearson. WTF? Standardized tests are bullshit to begin with, but annual standardized tests to determine the worth of a college education is offensive.

[UMaineTeach]

Jan 24, 2015 18:05:47 GMT -5 eclaires said:

This is seriously asinine.

I do know that senior year my H took (possibly had to take?) some engineering test that pretty much every other engineer had to take (or chose to?). I didn't pay attention just rolled out of bed like a nice girlfriend and drove him to the test on a Saturday. But it might have been optional?

It was probably the FE - fundamentals of engineering test to get his state Engineering Intern license and put him on the road to taking another test to be a PE. It would have been technically "optional" if he didn't want to use his degree, like a JD doesn't have to take the bar.

I think all fields that require a license after a 4 year+ degree have a standardized test to qualify for the license (teaching, engineering, nursing, social working, lawyering...) That should be good enough to know if a school/faculty is doing a good job, what % of students pass license testing and to hell if the 16th century women's study of basket weaving poets majors can think critically.

[MarmeeNoir]

Didn't Purdue release the Asian Ladybug plague that seems to get worse every fucking year.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jan 24, 2015 22:27:12 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Jan 24, 2015 18:58:18 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I personally think it's great. Because what I see happening is that this will awaken professors. My gut tells me the average immunology or French professor doesn't know what's happening out there with testing, unless they have young school-aged kids, which I'm estimating that many profs are slightly too old for (?). Maybe this will be a call to arms and they will join their public school brethren in bringing the system down.

No. They know what's happening because they are getting Freshman who don't know how to complete an essay exam and are completely educated around standardized testing. So when you sit them down in a seminar and ask them to tell you what they think The Yellow Wallpaper is about, they have no fucking clue where to start. And then they rate you as a shitty prof on the student eval because your fill in the blank questions on the final didn't have a corresponding word bank. Professors have been watching in horror at what is happening in K12 because they knew it wouldn't be long before it showed up on their door step. And low and behold...

You mean its not about some ugly wallpaper?

[wawa]

Jan 24, 2015 18:05:47 GMT -5 eclaires said:

This is seriously asinine.

I do know that senior year my H took (possibly had to take?) some engineering test that pretty much every other engineer had to take (or chose to?). I didn't pay attention just rolled out of bed like a nice girlfriend and drove him to the test on a Saturday. But it might have been optional?

I haven't read the whole thread so this might have been answered, but that was the FE. its a licensing exam, not actually school related. Its a state licensing board thing

[cattledogkisses]

Jan 25, 2015 1:58:21 GMT -5 MarmeeNoir said:

Didn't Purdue release the Asian Ladybug plague that seems to get worse every fucking year.

My house is infested with these things. 

[eclaires]

Jan 24, 2015 22:41:35 GMT -5 UMaineTeach said:

Jan 24, 2015 18:05:47 GMT -5 eclaires said:

This is seriously asinine.

I do know that senior year my H took (possibly had to take?) some engineering test that pretty much every other engineer had to take (or chose to?). I didn't pay attention just rolled out of bed like a nice girlfriend and drove him to the test on a Saturday. But it might have been optional?

It was probably the FE - fundamentals of engineering test to get his state Engineering Intern license and put him on the road to taking another test to be a PE. It would have been technically "optional" if he didn't want to use his degree, like a JD doesn't have to take the bar.

I think all fields that require a license after a 4 year+ degree have a standardized test to qualify for the license (teaching, engineering, nursing, social working, lawyering...) That should be good enough to know if a school/faculty is doing a good job, what % of students pass license testing and to hell if the 16th century women's study of basket weaving poets majors can think critically.

Jan 25, 2015 7:47:49 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jan 24, 2015 18:05:47 GMT -5 eclaires said:

This is seriously asinine.

I do know that senior year my H took (possibly had to take?) some engineering test that pretty much every other engineer had to take (or chose to?). I didn't pay attention just rolled out of bed like a nice girlfriend and drove him to the test on a Saturday. But it might have been optional?

I haven't read the whole thread so this might have been answered, but that was the FE. its a licensing exam, not actually school related. Its a state licensing board thing

Yes, that's it!  Thanks!  I was thinking it was related to the PE, but my memory was fuzzy and then I thought he did PE post-college.  He wasn't home for me to ask, and all I really remember about that day was it being a Saturday and having to wake up early (after sharing a twin bed, lollllll) to take him and he's out of town so I couldn't ask him for clarification.

And I just realized that was almost 12 years ago.  I feel so old.

[emilyj]

Jan 24, 2015 18:58:18 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I personally think it's great. Because what I see happening is that this will awaken professors. My gut tells me the average immunology or French professor doesn't know what's happening out there with testing, unless they have young school-aged kids, which I'm estimating that many profs are slightly too old for (?). Maybe this will be a call to arms and they will join their public school brethren in bringing the system down.

I am 100% willing to fight now. However, I have no clue where to start.

[katfco]

Jan 25, 2015 13:07:46 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Jan 24, 2015 18:58:18 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I personally think it's great. Because what I see happening is that this will awaken professors. My gut tells me the average immunology or French professor doesn't know what's happening out there with testing, unless they have young school-aged kids, which I'm estimating that many profs are slightly too old for (?). Maybe this will be a call to arms and they will join their public school brethren in bringing the system down.

I am 100% willing to fight now. However, I have no clue where to start.

this is the problem; I think it needs to happen at a legislative level and educators have little clout.

[curbsideprophet]

This is ridiculous.