UPDATE Tenant Issue : Help please!

[whiskeyandwine]

Your parents are probably in trouble here.

What does the lease say will happen in the event of a sale? Is there a written lease?

There probably isn't a ton to be done here, unless they have a current, written lease and even if they do - termination is a big deal. Not having it in writing is a bigger deal.

What does their RE lawyer say?

[penguingrrl]

When is the tenant's lease up? My understanding is that unless it's otherwise stipulated in a lease a new owner is required to honor a lease until the end date (this may well vary by state as well). I remember my mom had her house sold when she was living there and the new owners weren't allowed to evict her or raise the rent during the terms of her lease. She was notified in writing and it was sent via certified mail so her LL had a return receipt as evidence she was given notice and what date the notice occurred.

And what does the lease say about notice? Every lease I've had has stipulated 30 days written notice or an automatic renewal of the lease for a set amount of time. Our current lease says it automatically renews for 6 months if notice isn't given 30 days before it ends.

[killercupcake]

They didn't get it in writing because they assumed that the people would leave because the relationship has never been bad? The same people that never paid their rent on time and asked if they could just stay there when the new people moved in?

lol

Dude.

Lease? Lawyer?

[orangeblossom]

I know guy said it was a pretty laid back relationship, but is/was there a lease or were they month to month.

From what I know, if there is a lease in place, your parents can't just say move out. They can digest it, but the tenants don't have to follow rough, and the new owners would be landlords.

Generally 30 day notice needs to be given, so I don't really know what can be done legally, and your parents will just have to deal with the tenants moving out during that timeframe. Hopefully, sooner than later.

I know your parents don't want to rent to them any longer at the new place, but could they swing a month or two with them, so that can expedite the move and make sure of happens.

Anything going forward, make sure it's in writing.

Disclaimer: Not a lawyer or real estate agent.

[MrsAxilla]

Is there a lease? What does it say? Your parents should really talk to an attorney.

[panicked]

They need to talk to a lawyer who specializes in landlord/tenant law as soon as humanly possible.

[killercupcake]

If it were me, I'd find out the minimum notice required, get it all in writing, signed and then if I HAD to, I'd try to push back closing a few days.

[Jalapeñomel]

I'd just change the locks on them and let them fend for themselves.

[isabel]

So, uh, have they since put it in writing? Because they need every single day they can get with this. They may want to consider letting them/the son know they will forego January rent if they move out by February 15th. It's not 30 days notice, but maybe they'll be more willing to comply if your parents let this month's rent go?

[Jalapeñomel]

Jan 25, 2015 21:02:58 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

Jan 25, 2015 20:59:07 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

I'd just change the locks on them and let them fend for themselves.

Lol this is what I suggested, or that they just turn of the power. 

Changing the locks weren't work because the husband literally NEVER leaves the house. Literally. So he would still just stay there.


ETA - They are contacting a lawyer first thing tomorrow.

I was really kidding.  This is NOT good advice.  LOL

[killercupcake]

Do the tenants NEED to sign the paper? If they've been given notice, isn't that enough?

They need to consult a lawyer who specializes in this sort of thing, really. This is different everywhere.

[isabel]

Jan 25, 2015 21:02:05 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

Jan 25, 2015 21:00:03 GMT -5 isabel said:

So, uh, have they since put it in writing? Because they need every single day they can get with this. They may want to consider letting them/the son know they will forego January rent if they move out by February 15th. It's not 30 days notice, but maybe they'll be more willing to comply if your parents let this month's rent go?

She's now refusing to sign anything because apparently she is just so distraught and is having a panic and can't sign a piece a paper.

Are they required to have a signature? I would send it via email to the son (I'm making an ASSumption that they don't use email) and follow that up with a certified letter that requires a signature when the mail carrier drops it off. I don't think you generally have to have a signature from the tenant. You just have to prove the notice was delivered and when. This would of course vary from state to state.

[penguingrrl]

Jan 25, 2015 20:59:24 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

Jan 25, 2015 20:53:15 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

When is the tenant's lease up? My understanding is that unless it's otherwise stipulated in a lease a new owner is required to honor a lease until the end date (this may well vary by state as well). I remember my mom had her house sold when she was living there and the new owners weren't allowed to evict her or raise the rent during the terms of her lease. She was notified in writing and it was sent via certified mail so her LL had a return receipt as evidence she was given notice and what date the notice occurred.

And what does the lease say about notice? Every lease I've had has stipulated 30 days written notice or an automatic renewal of the lease for a set amount of time. Our current lease says it automatically renews for 6 months if notice isn't given 30 days before it ends.

The lease ended awhile ago and it states that after that it is just month to month. I don't think they put anything in the lease about what happens if the house is sold. 

Argh i am banging my head against the wall for my parents. I am dumbfounded that they didn't think written notice would be needed. 

They need to consult a lawyer. Each state and municipality has different laws regarding notice in these cases. At this point they will almost definitely either need to push back the closing or get the new landlords to consent to being landlords and deal with all that may come with that (this is sounding like it could easily turn into a nasty 6+ month eviction battle).

[usuallylurking]

Jan 25, 2015 21:05:19 GMT -5 @rennido said:

They still haven't paid rent yet? Depending on the state they can issue a three day eviction. If they pay, then they need to issue a thirty day notice.

Get a lawyer. It's going to get messy.

Ohhhh. Yes. This could be their saving grace. But yeah, lawyer asap.

[vanillacourage]

This is really bad. :/

Lawyer up, then consider offering them transitional help to just get them the F out of the apartment. One month in an extended stay hotel, etc.

[EmilieMadison]

Jan 25, 2015 21:02:58 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

Jan 25, 2015 20:59:07 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

I'd just change the locks on them and let them fend for themselves.

Lol this is what I suggested, or that they just turn of the power. 

Changing the locks weren't work because the husband literally NEVER leaves the house. Literally. So he would still just stay there.


ETA - They are contacting a lawyer first thing tomorrow.

NOOO. Both of those things are illegal. 

They will need to give proper notice NOW, but these people wont legally have to be out until the end of Feb at the very earliest. They need to contact an attorney asap, and also their real estate agent. They could possibly make the most of this by presenting the tenants are a "bonus" to the new owners for the month of Feb.

Your parents should cough up the rent that they may or may not ever get from the tenants and give it to the new owners for Feb. Then they should explain that the tenants have been given notice to leave (hopefully in the next few days so they have to be out by Feb 28) but that if the new owners want to continue renting it out that they can contact the tenants and extend the lease. 

[EmilieMadison]

Jan 25, 2015 21:05:09 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

Jan 25, 2015 21:03:45 GMT -5 killercupcake said:

Do the tenants NEED to sign the paper? If they've been given notice, isn't that enough?

They need to consult a lawyer who specializes in this sort of thing, really. This is different everywhere.

I don't think they do, they only reason I think they need to in this case is because she would just deny getting it, like she did with the verbal warning.

I guess at this point they need to send her a registered letter. Who knows if she will go pick it up.

Many states will allow you to POST the notice (on their door). And you can take a picture of the notice posted on their door as proof. But they need to verify whether this is permitted in your state. 

[Deleted]

Jan 25, 2015 21:12:26 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

Jan 25, 2015 21:09:28 GMT -5 EmilieMadison said:

NOOO. Both of those things are illegal. 

They will need to give proper notice NOW, but these people wont legally have to be out until the end of Feb at the very earliest. They need to contact an attorney asap, and also their real estate agent. They could possibly make the most of this by presenting the tenants are a "bonus" to the new owners for the month of Feb.

Your parents should cough up the rent that they may or may not ever get from the tenants and give it to the new owners for Feb. Then they should explain that the tenants have been given notice to leave (hopefully in the next few days so they have to be out by Feb 28) but that if the new owners want to continue renting it out that they can contact the tenants and extend the lease. 

My parents would never ever do that, don't worry!

Attorney will be contacted first thing tomorrow. At this point, they don't care about rent they just want them gone. I am going to suggest this to them, they said the new owners don't want them here but i am going to guess the new owners want the house because their house has probably already sold as well so they may be willing to work something out.

f I was buying a house I sure as hell wouldn't take possession of it with tenants that refuse to move/are being difficult about leaving. I'm sure they want nothing to do with the eviction process.

[whiskeyandwine]

A non-payment eviction is a good option here, but still takes time.

It can take up to 6 months here between service and the sherif coming to remove the tenant. These do not sound like tenants who are going to leave when the judgment is ordered.

[nikki25]

Most leases which expire go automatically to a month to month lease where the notice to leave occupancy usually ranges from 30-90 days, but, your parents need to find what their state, county, municipality states. As someone else stated, even if they don't comply you can get them evicted but that really can take a ton of time. If I were your parents, I would talk to them, explain the situation and see if any type of middle ground can be found; even if that middle ground is your parents putting them up in a hotel for a month. Once they are out, they are out and the closing can commence. I feel for the tenants, they clearly are elderly, enjoy your parents, and love living there BUT business is business and it sucks sometimes.

[DotAndBuzz]

Yeah, this just all depends on the laws in their state. They need to talk to an attorney, like, right now.

[my3boyz]

On the real estate side I would explain the issue to the buyers and keep the closing date and try to get them to commit to a rentback until the end of the month. Then I would give the tenants a 30 days notice. I would also find out if your parents can get the courts to issue an eviction notice simultaneously since they know the tenants won't leave voluntarily. If they don't do it this way it's possible that after 30 days notice it will still take an additional 30 days for the courts and sheriff to do the actual eviction. Which will surely mess up the sale of the house.

And LOL at anyone that thinks the new buyers will take possession with the tenants still there.

[Deleted]

Jan 25, 2015 21:37:11 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

I dont understand people, I still completely think my parents not giving notice in writing is the dumbest thing ever. But come on, who does this to people who have genuinely been nice to you and put up with so much of your shit? They KNEW the house was sold, they KNEW what the closing date was. They know my parents have to be out by a certain date.

Yet she has not made any attempt to move, or even started packing.

But this whole thing could have also been avoided.


Thanks for all your help ladies!

I feel terrible for the elderly couple. The poor woman must be terrified about her next move because it sounds like they are in a bad way financially. Imagine being elderly, poor, and having a husband who can't take care of himself, and having no place to go?

None if this is your parents responsibility, but I understand why she is maybe mentally having a really hard time accepting this.

[cheeseandcrackers]

No matter how good your relationship is with tenants, you should always put that stuff in writing. I know it's too late, but at least your parents know better for if there is a next time?

[orangeblossom]

Jan 25, 2015 21:13:57 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Jan 25, 2015 20:54:29 GMT -5 orangeblossom said:

I know guy said it was a pretty laid back relationship, but is/was there a lease or were they month to month.

From what I know, if there is a lease in place, your parents can't just say move out. They can digest it, but the tenants don't have to follow rough, and the new owners would be landlords.

Generally 30 day notice needs to be given, so I don't really know what can be done legally, and your parents will just have to deal with the tenants moving out during that timeframe. Hopefully, sooner than later.

I know your parents don't want to rent to them any longer at the new place, but could they swing a month or two with them, so that can expedite the move and make sure of happens.

Anything going forward, make sure it's in writing.

Disclaimer: Not a lawyer or real estate agent.

I would advise against this.  If they let the tenants move into the new place for "only a month or two" and then the tenants decide that they don't want to move your parents will have to go through the entire eviction process.  They could, possibly, stay there months and months before they're forced out of the new place.

That's true. I wasn't thinking about that, and we just thinking on the fly and trying to come up with a solution.

I'd still offer them some kind of incentive to get them out, even if it means an extended stay or something.

[hazelden]

If rent is late enough (it certainly is for January) you can file an unlawful detainer to begin the eviction process. Do not accept a rent payment from them at this point. Though I'm a little concerned that there's no lease and therefore no due date for the rent. Some states have Squatters Rights so that even if you let someone stay with you for free for a few months you must provide them with 30 days written notice.

I think the best bet would be to have your parents write a big check to the freeloaders as incentive to make them move, I'm guessing something in the neighborhood of 6 months rent would work.

[themoneytree]

Your parents have mismanaged this no doubt, but I have zero sympathy for these parasites. I'm so sorry your parents have to deal with this and hope they can get it sorted out.

I would google eviction notices for your state and send it registered, signature required. Hopefully the attorney can draft something that will motivate them enough to start moving.

[redheadk]

Perhaps your parents can waive January's rent and pay X amount towards moving expenses to get them out reasonably on time (and try to negotiate a later close date with their buyers).

Honestly, I would have considered this an emergency and called my realtor immediately for advice.

Glad they are contacting an attorney tomorrow, that is really the best thing they can do at this point.

[livinitup]

Jan 25, 2015 21:37:11 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

I dont understand people, I still completely think my parents not giving notice in writing is the dumbest thing ever. But come on, who does this to people who have genuinely been nice to you and put up with so much of your shit? They KNEW the house was sold, they KNEW what the closing date was. They know my parents have to be out by a certain date.

Yet she has not made any attempt to move, or even started packing.

But this whole thing could have also been avoided.


Thanks for all your help ladies!

What's to understand? They are old, scared, poor and at least one is in poor health. What? They care about their landlord's closing date? - because they let them slide on rent a bunch? No. Not even a little. And sadly, this was on your parents to do properly and legally, months ago.

[Deleted]

It actually may be OK only because they have the recording. Verbal notice is not normally valid but the agreement and acknowledgment they will be out by January 31 may be enforceable. Your parents also may be able to serve the 3 day notice. Did your mom play the recording for the son? Because it sounds to me like he is instigating this.

Also, hell yes their realtor should have helped them handle this. He should have printed up the eviction notice. But regardless, I feel for your parents.