Bedtime really sucks

[devotchka]

Max has gone from having a nice bedtime routine (bathtime, pjs, stories, asleep by 9 at the latest) to screaming, running around, crying and whining that he will not sleep. If we try to push him to do it, he will scream and cry and run around and say "I dont want the lights off" or "I don't want to sleep" - this has been a trend all week and he won't really fall asleep until after he tantrums for a while and it's closer to 10. We're exhausted and don't know what to do. I've tried to do a "reboot" and put him to bed earlier and the exact same thing happens. He just gets up and turns the lights back on or won't get into bed, etc. It's just a full out war. I know that toddlers push boundaries but since it means he won't get enough rest, I'm really upset about the whole situation and feel powerless. Some of you guys have recommended books but I just feel like we are beyond help. I wish I had done cry it out. Every time I try to fix the situation it just gets worse and worse. I feel like a shitty parent. I just want to leave right now and let H deal w/ the screaming. 

This is our only real struggle, and I've tried to spend quality time w him during the evening bc I thought he was just attention starved, but contrary to the advice I've read on positive parenting blogs/etc., it's just not working. Im going insane. Help!

ETA
Honestly, this is making me question wether we can have another child or not... I change my mind on a daily basis. I just don't feel like I am equipped to deal w/ another toddler while having to work full time. I just feel like I am failing.

[lolaburns]

Please do not feel like you are not doing a good job because of this. That is most certainly not the case.

Is he still taking a nap during the day? L began very similar behavior when he was ready to drop his nap. If he is still napping maybe try shortening his nap to see if it helps. Once L stopped napping bed times were easier again ( save the new thing of monsters ).

(((((Hugs)))))

[devotchka]

Jan 30, 2015 1:09:16 GMT -5 lolaburns said:

Please do not feel like you are not doing a good job because of this. That is most certainly not the case.

Is he still taking a nap during the day? L began very similar behavior when he was ready to drop his nap. If he is still napping maybe try shortening his nap to see if it helps. Once L stopped napping bed times were easier again ( save the new thing of monsters ).

(((((Hugs)))))

He is still napping but there was a few times during Xmas break (when we were home w him) that he didn't nap and bedtime was easier, and since Xmas break there was one time at preschool when he didn't nap, much to the surprise of the teachers. I wish I had control over that situation but it's kind of out of my hands. Should I say something to his main teacher, like don't encourage him to nap or something? 

Thanks! I am just feeling out of control :/ H is much calmer/more rational but I'm just an emotional person and this gets to me in a weird way. 

[orriskitten]

How long is his nap? Maybe a shorter nap would help him.

You are not beyond help and over time it will improve. Until then it will suck and you drink! Lol we had a phase with Mel when bedtime was a 3hour ordeal... For 3 months. It did improve. It takes a while.

Hugs.

[browndog]

I second the nap thing. We dropped James' nap during the summer because of the same antics. The upside was he would go to sleep pretty happily by about 6:30, so we kind of had an evening. He is cry recently back to napping again, which is weird, but I think kids sleep needs change a lot.

[devonpow]

Ugh, I'm sorry.

You can't make him sleep. You CAN make him have a set bedtime and routine and have him stay in his room. Do you have a gate or anything? Some may disagree with me, but I would be very no nonsense, it's bedtime , do the routine even if he's freaking, no negotiations, stay very calm, in bed, lights out, shut the gate, done.

He may cry and tantrum and run around his room and goof off, but you are done. Just basic super nanny approach of "it's bedtime, it's time to be quiet in our rooms" the first interaction, then only silent interactions after that. They key is always consistency. It's so hard, but they WILL figure out you mean business after a while.

[unclejesse]

A is going through some sort of sleep transition now or something. It has been an hour of putting him down, him running out, taking him back to bed, repeat 15 times, for about a week. School says his naps are really sporadic, and when he doesn't nap, he's a mess.
We just keep reiterating that it is bedtime and he needs to get some sleep and blah blah blah until it finally sticks. I refuse to give into him wanting to stay up later, because we simply all need him to go to bed at 8.

[alicia45]

Ugh. I'm sorry. How long is he napping due the day? I've noticed that when A naps 2 hours and early, like 1:30-3:30, she goes to bed at 9pm much easier than if she napped close to 3 hours and woke at 5pm. I've been waking her at 4:30pm, no matter what time she went to sleep and it seems to be helping. She's not as wired at night. Also, what time are you starting your routine? A goes to bed at 9 and we start our routine no later than 7:30pm. We turn the lights down, so maybe one lamp on versus the whole house lit up. We only play quiet toys or bathe (depending on the day), we put her pjs on, she watches one Mickey show at a low volume, we brush her teeth and then we rock in a comfy rocking chair for 5-10min. You could just lay with him for a little bit and whisper about his day. I'm a firm believer that you have to set the mood for sleep. I can't even think about getting sleepy if every light is on in our house, no matter what time it is. My whole goal at 7:30pm is to get her quiet and relaxed so that her brain can slow down. I really think toddlers don't know how to slow down. They're either up, running around, or BAM! out like a light.

I'm sorry he's so tough at night. Huge hugs. Don't toddlers know that by 7pm Mommy and Daddy are all out of patience?

[dixeedeluxe]

I'm so sorry. This is rough.

[imimahoney]

Jan 30, 2015 7:14:55 GMT -5 unclejesse said:

A is going through some sort of sleep transition now or something. It has been an hour of putting him down, him running out, taking him back to bed, repeat 15 times, for about a week. School says his naps are really sporadic, and when he doesn't nap, he's a mess.
We just keep reiterating that it is bedtime and he needs to get some sleep and blah blah blah until it finally sticks. I refuse to give into him wanting to stay up later, because we simply all need him to go to bed at 8.

this is Ari word for word. He is clearly transitioning. He takes naps maybe 70% of the time and when he does bedtime is such a battle. But when he doesn't he literally freaks out starting at 5. It is such a terrible phase. I hone it passes for you soon.

[shevacc]

In nearly all respects, we're gentle parents, but I think that still means setting firm limits sometimes. My approach in practice is a lot like devonpow's and G has tried all kinds of strategies to test the limits before mostly settling into them. In her case I know she's tired, she just doesn't want to go to bed.

After dinner, G gets bath, then teeth brushing, and 3 stories. Then lights out. She turned them back on a few times and I turned them right off and told her it's time for bed. I tell her what to expect then follow through. For example, I offer to rub her back for a count of 50 then say goodnight. After that, I say goodnight and leave, closing the gate at the top of the stairs behind me. Even if she jumps up and starts after me, starts crying, or otherwise trying to stay awake. I give her a few minutes then return and say "I love you G. It's bedtime." After that point she's expected to stay in bed. When I've had to return a 3rd, 4th, etc time I usually just point to her bed unless I think she needs something specifically (Tylenol, lotion).

You can't make him sleep, but I think you need to solve the turning on lights and leaving his room issues. A baby gate? Putting the lock on the outside of the door for a few months? Can you take his light bulb? Somehow disable the switch after bedtime?

[laurack]

Matilda has definitely gotten a bit worse lately. It's probably pretty common at this age I guess. She's so not ready to drop her nap though. If she doesn't have it she is intolerable.

The two children thing definitely complicates things. She keeps waking her brother when I put her in her room which infuriates me. In order to try to avoid this I end up reading to her, singing to her, snuggling etc. in our room and it all takes so long until I feel like she's "ready" to go in the room with him and make minimal noise

Getting both my children in bed takes almost two hours.

If we had a three bedroom house I would be doing the devonpow thing. "Scream all you want sucker! See you in the morning!" lol

[sunshineluv]

Can you do some sort of countdown? Henry does a lot better when we give him warnings about what is coming, we usually give a 15 minute warning, then a 5 minute, then a one minute. One more minute until mickey goes night night. (He watches Mickey before bed)

Maybe a timer that you actually set and will ding? When this dings, you get one story, then it is lights out?

[devotchka]

Jan 30, 2015 6:49:37 GMT -5 devonpow said:

Ugh, I'm sorry.

You can't make him sleep. You CAN make him have a set bedtime and routine and have him stay in his room. Do you have a gate or anything? Some may disagree with me, but I would be very no nonsense, it's bedtime , do the routine even if he's freaking, no negotiations, stay very calm, in bed, lights out, shut the gate, done.

He may cry and tantrum and run around his room and goof off, but you are done. Just basic super nanny approach of "it's bedtime, it's time to be quiet in our rooms" the first interaction, then only silent interactions after that. They key is always consistency. It's so hard, but they WILL figure out you mean business after a while.

We had a gate but stopped using it. The only thing that worked was - it was 9:45 last night and he was basically exhausted and

The only thing that "worked" last night was - it was 9:45 last night and he was basically exhausted and tantruming at that point. I told him he gets a time out in his room for a few minutes, I put him in there, shut the door, and waited. He screamed and calmed down and then he was ready to be picked up and went to bed sniffling but at least docile. 

I guess if we are in his room and the gate is up, he can't get out and start running around but at least he's quiet in there? We will try that. Thanks!

[lolaburns]

I would ask his day time caregivers what their plan is for dropping naps. If I had to guess he is needing his nap time shortened or dropped. You will have chaos at the end of the day and his behavior might be crazy as he transitions to dropping the nap. I moved up the bed time to try to have him in bed by 7-7:30.

[lolaburns]

laurack L wakes up E when she is napping or sleeping, too. It drives me crazy.

[devotchka]

Jan 30, 2015 10:32:15 GMT -5 shevacc said:

In nearly all respects, we're gentle parents, but I think that still means setting firm limits sometimes. My approach in practice is a lot like devonpow's and G has tried all kinds of strategies to test the limits before mostly settling into them. In her case I know she's tired, she just doesn't want to go to bed.

After dinner, G gets bath, then teeth brushing, and 3 stories. Then lights out. She turned them back on a few times and I turned them right off and told her it's time for bed. I tell her what to expect then follow through. For example, I offer to rub her back for a count of 50 then say goodnight. After that, I say goodnight and leave, closing the gate at the top of the stairs behind me. Even if she jumps up and starts after me, starts crying, or otherwise trying to stay awake. I give her a few minutes then return and say "I love you G. It's bedtime." After that point she's expected to stay in bed. When I've had to return a 3rd, 4th, etc time I usually just point to her bed unless I think she needs something specifically (Tylenol, lotion).

You can't make him sleep, but I think you need to solve the turning on lights and leaving his room issues. A baby gate? Putting the lock on the outside of the door for a few months? Can you take his light bulb? Somehow disable the switch after bedtime?

We actually took out the light bulb yesterday and he freaked. I think we might just take the light out of his room tonight entirely and read with the hallway lights on. At least even w/ the door open he is more drowsy when it's dark. I am going to try the gate again. We used to have one but got rid of it at some point (when we moved to my Mom's). 

[devotchka]

Jan 30, 2015 12:13:27 GMT -5 lolaburns said:

I would ask his day time caregivers what their plan is for dropping naps. If I had to guess he is needing his nap time shortened or dropped. You will have chaos at the end of the day and his behavior might be crazy as he transitions to dropping the nap. I moved up the bed time to try to have him in bed by 7-7:30.

We are gonna have to do this soon. I talked to H and he said he asked about naps eysterday and the teacher said he gets down by 1:15 easily and is exhausted (seems to need it) - but I think that's bc he stays up late and doesnt get enough sleep. When he's at home most days he passes out easily too, but sometimes he doesn't, it varies. 

IT's exhausting. Thanks for your help everyone!!!

[shevacc]

I would definitely anticipate a major freak-out, maybe even for the first entire week or more. If you take away the light, plus gate him in when he's used to running all over, he'll probably be super pissed. But you know he needs sleep. Stick to your plan and he'll get it soon! You can do this!