You need to make $108,092 a year to live comfortably in D.C.

[KB]

This doesn't shock me at all.

[ijack]

Oh yay, MM's favorite discussion!!

[karinothing]

Before we had kids DH and I lived comfortably in DC for less than that. So I could see how we could live fine with 108K if we had no kids.

ETA: This would be comfortable renting, but it let us rent a nice place. We could go out to nice restaurants all the time and on lots of vacations.

[iammalcolmx]

Jan 30, 2015 11:33:03 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

I feel like you need much more than this in DC to be comfortable.

Girl yes because you need to make way more than that to live comfortably in Atlanta.

[iammalcolmx]

Also My Momma doesn't make that amount of money and she is comfy however she has no house-note.

[MrsAxilla]

Jan 30, 2015 11:33:03 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

I feel like you need much more than this in DC to be comfortable.

That number is for an individual.  Does that mean a family of four needs $432K?  That sounds about right - lol.

[tacosforlife]

We make slightly more than that (for another month).

We are comfortable but not particularly secure. Partly due to some bad choices and partly due to circumstances not within our control.

I mean, it's hard to get your financial house in order when you pay a combined $1600/month in student loans. We'll get there, but it's going to take time.

[ttt]

Jan 30, 2015 11:49:41 GMT -5 @mx said:

Comfortable is such a squidgy term.

I definitely have single friends who live well on less-including home/car ownership, paying for student loans and having discretionary income for travel, eating out and rather nice gym memberships. And I know they don't have mysterious family money. Maybe they are all selling drugs.

They're all getting welfare!!!!11!!

ETA wait do they have iPhones and LV purses?

[Velvetshady]

Kind of a meaningless article without a definition of "comfortable". And maybe where is DC this "comfortable" living is happening in.

[karinothing]

Jan 30, 2015 11:54:50 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Jan 30, 2015 11:33:39 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Before we had kids DH and I lived comfortably in DC for less than that. So I could see how we could live fine with 108K if we had no kids.

ETA: This would be comfortable renting, but it let us rent a nice place. We could go out to nice restaurants all the time and on lots of vacations.

I could see a couple living comfortably on this (although, like you said, renting, not owning) in DC, so it makes total sense to me that this is the number for an individual.  It's kind of crazy to say an individual could not live comfortably in any US city on this amount.  It's an awful lot like the "I am middle class" proclamations for the $250K HHI group.  Still, I would be curious how comfort is defined.  If I were single, no children, I could be comfortable in a one-bedroom apartment.  I could even be comfortable without a vehicle.  I am sure they used some sort of lifestyle barometer for this, I wonder why they did not include it.

Ha, yeah it would be interesting to see how comfort is defined. I mean we had a car (paid off), but we flew somewhere once a month and went out to really nice restaurants. We had ALL the channels for cable. We also had a one bedroom apartment. We also could put money into savings. So it was pretty cushy. If we both made 108K we be living the high life w/out kids (and student loans ha ha).

ETA: We could have afforded a 2 bedroom apartment as well (and not changed our lifestyle).

[Cicero]

Jan 30, 2015 11:49:41 GMT -5 @mx said:

Comfortable is such a squidgy term.

I definitely have single friends who live well on less-including home/car ownership, paying for student loans and having discretionary income for travel, eating out and rather nice gym memberships. And I know they don't have mysterious family money. Maybe they are all selling drugs.

This describes my SIL to a tee, but she also has pretty much nothing saved for retirement and a lot of CC debt.

Comfortable is all relative.  She's got a nice lifestyle but I wouldn't be at all comfortable living like she does because I'd be freaking out about the fact that I would be in debt my entire life and have to work until the day I died.  I would, however probably be comfortable on what she makes or less minus the international trips etc.  I'm also a worrier my nature though.

[sushi]

We feel comfortable on less. It's cheaper here than Honolulu where we also felt comfortable. It's all relative.

[iammalcolmx]

Yall know if I can't take my trips I am not comfortable.

[Velar Fricative]

How can I feel comfortable when my diamond shoes are too tight?

[iammalcolmx]

Jan 30, 2015 12:26:25 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

How can I feel comfortable when my diamond shoes are too tight?

Because you don't have to walk too far in them since you have an elevator and all

[Alyssa]

Does comfort = paying your mortgage on time or does it mean you can live in DC and afford a trip to the Bahamas for some R&R? I don't get how they are measuring this.

[lya]

Jan 30, 2015 11:28:00 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Cheat Sheet then determined how much a household would need to earn a year in order to live “comfortably.” The report used $75,000 as the “magic salary number” based on a 2010 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences study indicating that someone’s day-to-day emotional well-being doesn’t increase after a household income hits the $75,000 threshold. Cheat Sheet then adjusted that income level up or down using a cost-of-living calculator and comparing each city to Phoenix — “a city with a moderate cost of living and a median income that’s close to the national average.”

This part is key.  There was a previous study that studied how a person's day-to-day experience changed with increasing salary.  The idea is that if you  make little, an increase in salary will make a huge difference, however if you make more, an increase in salary may make less of a difference.  They found that up to $75,000 you are happier after a salary increase, however, after that amount, your daily experience doesn't change much.  For example, if you made $30,000 and increase to $35,000 would likely change your daily life.  But if you increase a salary of $75,000 to $80,000 your daily life probably isn't going to change much.

All this current study is doing is taking this $75,000 number and adjusting it to different cities based on a cost-of-living calculator.  That is what they are basing "comfortable" on.  

[earlgreyhot]

We are a family of 4 with a HHI is 1.5-1.75x times that and have carved out a secure living. We have an e-fund, a car, eat out, take vacations, etc. However, we couldn't afford the (small, downtown, un-renovated) condo we rent without becoming "house poor." We aren't saving for college either right now. My oldest goes to to a DC public.

I feel the number is fairly accurate for your typical Ward 2, 3, 4'er. I mean, certainly you can live on less, but to take in yoga classes, go out to restaurants, live in the newer highrises, or even afford a renovated rowhouse (or buy a cheap one and update yourself) then 100K is about right. I feel like it's a chicken and egg thing though, lots of young lawyers have flocked to the city and make about ~70-100K to start and the infrastructure has just risen to support it. But clearly there is a significant demographic who is completely ignored in this matrix.

[eclaires]

All I know about DC is that my BIL and SIL's mortgage payment for a not that exciting house in Arlington made me want to yell for smelling salts.

In general, though, their life seems expensive to me. Not just the mortgage payment but costs of childcare and other general expenses.

Of course they both work and individually probably make way more than what MH makes, let alone combined.

[saz]

Jan 30, 2015 11:33:39 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Before we had kids DH and I lived comfortably in DC for less than that. So I could see how we could live fine with 108K if we had no kids.

ETA: This would be comfortable renting, but it let us rent a nice place. We could go out to nice restaurants all the time and on lots of vacations.

This for us too, although we were not in the city, just a nearby suburb.

[tacosforlife]

Jan 30, 2015 12:54:46 GMT -5 eclaires said:

All I know about DC is that my BIL and SIL's mortgage payment for a not that exciting house in Arlington made me want to yell for smelling salts.

I'm not itching to buy a house today or anything, but this is part of why going back to the Midwest is feeling appealing. I think we'll be able to start saving for a down payment in maybe a year or so. If we move to Chicago, for example, our income is not likely to decrease much, if at all. We could probably save for 2-3 years at most and have a DP. In Milwaukee, probably only a year.

Out here? Nah man. We're gonna have to save for 10 years, especially if we have kids and throw daycare costs into the mix. If we stay here, I think my plan will be to buy around 45 and do a 15-year mortgage so I can still have a paid off house in retirement.

[iammalcolmx]

I don't miss the COL one bit. H's parents however had offered to give us their house when they can't deal with the stairs anymore.

[eclaires]

Jan 30, 2015 13:08:29 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

Jan 30, 2015 12:54:46 GMT -5 eclaires said:

All I know about DC is that my BIL and SIL's mortgage payment for a not that exciting house in Arlington made me want to yell for smelling salts.

I'm not itching to buy a house today or anything, but this is part of why going back to the Midwest is feeling appealing. I think we'll be able to start saving for a down payment in maybe a year or so. If we move to Chicago, for example, our income is not likely to decrease much, if at all. We could probably save for 2-3 years at most and have a DP. In Milwaukee, probably only a year.

Out here? Nah man. We're gonna have to save for 10 years, especially if we have kids and throw daycare costs into the mix. If we stay here, I think my plan will be to buy around 45 and do a 15-year mortgage so I can still have a paid off house in retirement.

It's seriously nuts. And their old house that my BIL bought for like $500-600k sold for like $700-800k and it was so tiny. Like seriously minuscule and dated and terrible. They redid the bathroom and kitchen there which added a lot to its value because the old kitchen was basically non existent.

I think he borrowed money from my ILs for his first house down payment but I am not entirely sure on the details of it.

[iammalcolmx]

Jan 30, 2015 13:15:45 GMT -5 @mx said:

Jan 30, 2015 12:11:00 GMT -5 Cicero said:

This describes my SIL to a tee, but she also has pretty much nothing saved for retirement and a lot of CC debt.

Comfortable is all relative.  She's got a nice lifestyle but I wouldn't be at all comfortable living like she does because I'd be freaking out about the fact that I would be in debt my entire life and have to work until the day I died.  I would, however probably be comfortable on what she makes or less minus the international trips etc.  I'm also a worrier my nature though.

Well my friends aren't taking international vacations.

You know the bolded is OUT OF THE QUESTION for me right??? LOL!!

[dottyblue]

I live just outside of DC in VA. We make a bit more than that for our little family of three and things are TIGHT. We live in 950 square feet. Daycare is killing us (we pay just as much in daycare as we do in rent) for only one kid. I have no idea how "poor" people have multiple kids here. Daycare for 2 would be more than my DH's salary. We don't eat out. We take advantage of the free museums and zoo.

And mortgage? HA! We are moving back to CT this summer because we can't afford to buy anything other here than a shithole in a sketchy neighborhood or an efficiency apartment without moving another 45 minutes away from DC. And I refuse to do that kind of commute.

DC is fun when you are young and don't have as many responsibilities. There is a reason that people start moving away when they have kids...

[iammalcolmx]

Jan 30, 2015 13:17:08 GMT -5 dottyblue said:

I live just outside of DC in VA. We make a bit more than that for our little family of three and things are TIGHT. We live in 950 square feet. Daycare is killing us (we pay just as much in daycare as we do in rent) for only one kid. I have no idea how "poor" people have multiple kids here. Daycare for 2 would be more than my DH's salary. We don't eat out. We take advantage of the free museums and zoo.

And mortgage? HA! We are moving back to CT this summer because we can't afford to buy anything other here than a shithole in a sketchy neighborhood or an efficiency apartment without moving another 45 minutes away from DC. And I refuse to do that kind of commute.

DC is fun when you are young and don't have as many responsibilities. There is a reason that people start moving away when they have kids...

Really? I was born and raised there. Are you talking about currently? Most of our High School friends stayed in the area.

[CurlyQ284]

I agree with dottyblue. We had to move. It's not comfortable with kids. At all. I posted my budget on MM and they couldn't even find stuff to cut. I was bare bones and stressed about money constantly.

[tacosforlife]

Jan 30, 2015 13:17:08 GMT -5 dottyblue said:

DC is fun when you are young and don't have as many responsibilities. There is a reason that people start moving away when they have kids...

This is what H keeps saying.

I think I can get him on board with a mini taco much sooner if we move somewhere else.

[dottyblue]

Jan 30, 2015 13:20:23 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Jan 30, 2015 13:17:08 GMT -5 dottyblue said:

I live just outside of DC in VA. We make a bit more than that for our little family of three and things are TIGHT. We live in 950 square feet. Daycare is killing us (we pay just as much in daycare as we do in rent) for only one kid. I have no idea how "poor" people have multiple kids here. Daycare for 2 would be more than my DH's salary. We don't eat out. We take advantage of the free museums and zoo.

And mortgage? HA! We are moving back to CT this summer because we can't afford to buy anything other here than a shithole in a sketchy neighborhood or an efficiency apartment without moving another 45 minutes away from DC. And I refuse to do that kind of commute.

DC is fun when you are young and don't have as many responsibilities. There is a reason that people start moving away when they have kids...

Really? I was born and raised there. Are you talking about currently? Most of our High School friends stayed in the area.

Literally every single one of our close friends that we have made down here in the past 10 years have moved away (or at least further out from DC at least 30-50 miles) as soon as they decided to have kids.  I can think of 10 different couples off the top of my head.

There are obviously people who stay (your family, case in point), but it's HARD raising a family here unless if you make a lot of money.

[tacosforlife]

Jan 30, 2015 13:20:23 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Jan 30, 2015 13:17:08 GMT -5 dottyblue said:

I live just outside of DC in VA. We make a bit more than that for our little family of three and things are TIGHT. We live in 950 square feet. Daycare is killing us (we pay just as much in daycare as we do in rent) for only one kid. I have no idea how "poor" people have multiple kids here. Daycare for 2 would be more than my DH's salary. We don't eat out. We take advantage of the free museums and zoo.

And mortgage? HA! We are moving back to CT this summer because we can't afford to buy anything other here than a shithole in a sketchy neighborhood or an efficiency apartment without moving another 45 minutes away from DC. And I refuse to do that kind of commute.

DC is fun when you are young and don't have as many responsibilities. There is a reason that people start moving away when they have kids...

Really? I was born and raised there. Are you talking about currently? Most of our High School friends stayed in the area.

I wish I could remember where, but I recently read something that said the COL in NoVA has risen about in proportion to the increase in lobbying spending. And that lobbying spending has increased by some insane exponential percentage between 1998 and 2011. So I think on the COL front, a lot of things have changed. But I don't know what it was like when you were growing up.

You know I'm generally all rah rah DC, but after my hour long 9-mile reverse commute last night, I am like I'M OUT!