Ugh. A FB friend just posted that diseases eliminate the weak, and it is Darwinism. I told her that I didn't think that previously healthy children dying of preventable disease and not being able to carry on their genes was what Darwin was thinking of when he developed his theory of evolution.
Seriously? She'd prefer that children die, including hers, in a sort of culling the herd thought process, than have her children vaccinated because Darwin was right but not enough people believe that so we have to keep demonstrating it in this way over and over?
My head is blown by this. Like people seriously think this way? Then we should all stop engaging in all sorts of modern medicine and just accept any fate that befalls us. Jesus, I hope that you defriended her. I mean anti-vaxxers are bad and wrong, but this is all kind of f-ed up.
But their parents don't seem to worry about the health ramifications that their stupidity is causing for others.
Can you imagine the possible implications of a kid with measles showing up in a ped waiting room?
They are still going to show up somewhere. Or worse, for some things, go untreated and continue to spread disease.
Back in the dark ages when I had measles, my mom was instructed me to keep me at home. Instructions were given over the phone for my care as he did not want me in his waiting room. Despite this, the little boy I was playing with when we both caught them, died. Showing up at the doctors would not have made any difference as to whether he lived, he was one of the unlucky ones with complications.
This was pre MMR, when just about every parent KNEW of a horror story like this.
One thing that might make the anti vaxxers take notice is if less pediatricians will agree to treat their kids.
There was a report on TV yesterday of one dropping his kid patients whose parents refused to vaccinate because he felt he needed to protect the rest of his practice.
I agree in theory but I worry about the health ramifications for innocent and vulnerable children whose parents already have a track record of stupidity.
There's the rub. But I think ultimately it should be up to the pedi to make that decision for their practice. You have to protect patients who don't get to make the decisions to vaccinate or not b/c medically it is made for them first.
And, I am completely baffled that it seems easy to get around the requirement to be vaccinated for school in PA. This was printed in the newspaper:
Children need not be immunized if the parent, guardian or emancipated child objects in writing to the immunization on religious grounds or on the basis of a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief.
Yes, it's crazy how easy it is to get a personal belief exemption around here in LA. And in LA, the trend seems to be, the more affluent areas = more anti-vax. If you compare the % of parents filing personal belief exemptions for required vaccines in schools on the westside of LA it 9.1% vs 2.2% for LA county as a whole. It's mind boggling. This is a quote from an article talking about this phenomena:
"What's more, this demographic isn't intimidated by the medical establishment. They've done their own research, read the trendy books and articles, and they feel confident enough of their own knowledge to do what they believe is right for their children, not what they're told is right."
It's crazy, there are some schools in Santa Monica, west LA, Beverly Hills with exemption rates of 70%!!
ETA: link to map of exemption rates in LA, in case anyone wants to look up their school
I agree in theory but I worry about the health ramifications for innocent and vulnerable children whose parents already have a track record of stupidity.
But their parents don't seem to worry about the health ramifications that their stupidity is causing for others.
Can you imagine the possible implications of a kid with measles showing up in a ped waiting room?
Yep.
There are already pediatricians that won't accept patients if their parents won't vaccinate. That's one reason I chose the practice I did when I was pg w/ N 7 years ago. Doctors have an obligation to protect their patients. Welcoming in people who are willing to deliberately put the health of others at risk is a HUGE liability for them to play with. Not to mention what other recommended medical treatments the anti-vax parent may choose to shun because "reasearch/anecdote/google."
Pedi: Your kid has bacterial pneumonia and needs antibiotics
Anti-vax parent: Yeah, but I'm not comfortable with that, because I've heard antibioitics are made in labs by big pharma. Are you paid to prescribe a particular brand? I know you all get big bucks for that. How about an essential oil in a humidifier. My friend sells those, and they're amazing. Which one should I use?
Pedi - you should use an antibiotic
Parent - I really don't think so. Are you sure?
Then they go to the ER when the kid can't breathe and are all HOLY SHIT my kid is SICK, why didn't my doctor DO something? Modern medicine is such a crock.
And organic essential oils. Just rub a lavender/peppermint blend on the measles, and walla.
And breastfeeding. I know someone who "did her research" and found that breastfeeding would pass her antibodies on to her kids, therefore making them immune without the vaccine. She was shocked when I told her that's not the way it works.
And her husband was on FB yesterday talking about parents making "educated" and "personal" decisions.
One thing that might make the anti vaxxers take notice is if less pediatricians will agree to treat their kids.
There was a report on TV yesterday of one dropping his kid patients whose parents refused to vaccinate because he felt he needed to protect the rest of his practice.
I agree in theory but I worry about the health ramifications for innocent and vulnerable children whose parents already have a track record of stupidity.
But, Darwin. (In case it's not clear, I'm not promoting the death of little kids. Making a snide remark about CajunShrimp's fb friend's comment.)
Jesus. Even though everyone in here is on the same side as me and expressing the same outrage, I can't handle it. This whole thread has me so worked up.
We need to launch a similar Internet/mommy blogger campaign in reverse.
Get local and national news to just start reporting every time some dies from one of these diseases? Probably start reporting "43 deaths this week from the flu" and things like that too.
A 6 week old baby just died from Pertussis in KS:(
Ugh. A FB friend just posted that diseases eliminate the weak, and it is Darwinism. I told her that I didn't think that previously healthy children dying of preventable disease and not being able to carry on their genes was what Darwin was thinking of when he developed his theory of evolution.
Seriously? She'd prefer that children die, including hers, in a sort of culling the herd thought process, than have her children vaccinated because Darwin was right but not enough people believe that so we have to keep demonstrating it in this way over and over?
Yep. This was her response where I attacked the article she posted, fact by fact.
i think our capitalistic society has taken over true medicine. i know of a chemist who worked in a vaccine manufacturing facility. he told his friends and family not to inject their kids with this shit. it's not the science behind the vaccine; it's the additives, the stabilizers, the mass productivity. our immune systems, when healthy from being breast fed, eating healthy foods, getting proper exercise and outdoor time, are sufficient to handle most diseases. look at history. who got sick? the weak. it's Darwinian. and it's part of life that not everyone will survive. i'm ok with that. i've lost many close people and i realize that death is part of life. it is my belief that if i provide my children with the proper diets, environments, and of course love, that their immune systems will be strong. so far so good.
The irony is that a mutual friend has seen her smack the crap out of her kids (so much for providing her kids with love) and she herself is morbidly obese, and has posted many times on FB that she needs to start eating better and getting more exercise and taking care of herself (so much for that proper diet!). When it serves her purposes (like when discussions like this come up), she goes on and on how she feeds he kids only organic food, but then checks in to McDonalds on FB all the time.
Part of me wants to suggest that the culling of the herd begin with people like her, but that may be crossing the line.
I agree in theory but I worry about the health ramifications for innocent and vulnerable children whose parents already have a track record of stupidity.
But those kids are endangering babies, sick children who cant get vax'd or have no immune system. It sucks to have to choose between kids but the choice should always be to protect the majority. To do that, anti vaxxers must be banned. (Not counting children with absolutely legitimate medical reasons why they cannot receive the vax)
Yes.
The healthcare community needs to make it abundantly clear that this is not an acceptable "parenting choice." This isn't like bfing vs formula. Or co-sleeping vs back to sleep. Or CIO vs attachment parenting. Or any other parenting choice that impacts exactly one child and one family.
Post by Monica Geller on Jan 31, 2015 11:18:14 GMT -5
Some jackass "doctor" & anti-vaxer on CNN just said that he COULD live with himself if another child died as a result of catching a preventable disease from his unvaccinated kid, because it's not his responsibility to protect every child.
Some jackass "doctor" & anti-vaxer on CNN just said that he COULD live with himself if another child died as a result of catching a preventable disease from his unvaccinated kid, because it's not his responsibility to protect every child.
Is it the cardiologist from Arizona? An article he wrote has been all over FB.
Some jackass "doctor" & anti-vaxer on CNN just said that he COULD live with himself if another child died as a result of catching a preventable disease from his unvaccinated kid, because it's not his responsibility to protect every child.
Is it the cardiologist from Arizona? An article he wrote has been all over FB.
Post by pantsparty on Jan 31, 2015 11:22:03 GMT -5
The whole "it's a money making scheme!!111!!1" puzzles me the most. Isn't...EVERYTHING a money making scheme? Someone is making money on every single thing I buy, medical or otherwise. Why is that a
Some jackass "doctor" & anti-vaxer on CNN just said that he COULD live with himself if another child died as a result of catching a preventable disease from his unvaccinated kid, because it's not his responsibility to protect every child.
Is it the cardiologist from Arizona? An article he wrote has been all over FB.
Ugh. A FB friend just posted that diseases eliminate the weak, and it is Darwinism. I told her that I didn't think that previously healthy children dying of preventable disease and not being able to carry on their genes was what Darwin was thinking of when he developed his theory of evolution.
This kind of logic is akin to Christiams who refuse medical treatment because " God will provide!" The fittest, under Darwin's theory of evolution, can most definitely be the mentally smartest. Humans aren't surviving in the wild where the sick die off. They are living in society, where the stupid often don't thrive.
Post by CajunShrimp on Jan 31, 2015 11:25:03 GMT -5
I like her complaint that vaccines are 'mass produced'. Ok, let's hand make vaccines for billions of people in the world. How exactly can you make vaccines for that many people if not by mass production?
I like her complaint that vaccines are 'mass produced'. Ok, let's hand make vaccines for billions of people in the world. How exactly can you make vaccines for that many people if not by mass production?
I get all my hand-crafted vaccines from Etsy, personally.
I like her complaint that vaccines are 'mass produced'. Ok, let's hand make vaccines for billions of people in the world. How exactly can you make vaccines for that many people if not by mass production?
I get all my hand-crafted vaccines from Etsy, personally.
Post by usuallylurking on Jan 31, 2015 11:29:53 GMT -5
I want to know where all the parents are who's kids have just had measles. Why aren't they chomping at the bit to say "it was no big deal! Just a regular childhood illness! My precious has completed their first right of passage to a better immune system!" Because that's what they all say now, prior to their kids being sick from their choices, do they still feel the same way?
I wish I could find a pediatrician/PCP who would require vaccines. I don't like having to worry that measles (or other VPD) could be lurking in the air when we simply go in for a well child check.
The whole "it's a money making scheme!!111!!1" puzzles me the most. Isn't...EVERYTHING a money making scheme? Someone is making money on every single thing I buy, medical or otherwise. Why is that a
Especially when vaccines are one of the medical technologies when the ROI is actually low.
The cost of making a vaccine is astronomical, and the market is pretty one sided, in that you get one vx, then a booster, and done. The pharma companies would do MUCH BETTER if people got sick and there was a targeted antiviral or some drug that would relieve symptoms that they could market. Drugs and diagnostics, for the most part, usually make way more money.
This is also why many pharma don't focus on spending R&D $ in vaccines in actually.
I like her complaint that vaccines are 'mass produced'. Ok, let's hand make vaccines for billions of people in the world. How exactly can you make vaccines for that many people if not by mass production?
What? You don't locally source your flu vax w/ eggs from chickens in your backyard?
The whole "it's a money making scheme!!111!!1" puzzles me the most. Isn't...EVERYTHING a money making scheme? Someone is making money on every single thing I buy, medical or otherwise. Why is that a
Well, I'd like one of these people to explain who is getting rich off of vaccines.
From what I understand, vaccines are pretty much a loss for pharmaceutical companies and this why this arm of pharmaceutical companies is supported by the government as a function of Public Health.
I guess what it boils down to is that there is a generation of parents out there who have never seen the result of childhood diseases, so it does not make much of an impact. I'd hazard a guess that most of those parents were vaccinated against them themselves and have never actually been sick themselves.
I had a post doc in the lab one year who caught chicken pox from her nephew (this was also pre-vaccine). If I hadn't remembered my childhood friend, the fact that this phenomenally healthy woman wound up in ICU for 3 weeks with chicken pox, and wasn't up to coming back into the lab for another month after that. Even then, she looked like hell.
I wonder what's going to happen with this generation of unvaccinated children, who wind up catching childhood diseases as adults? Once you hit adulthood, you risk sterility from the mumps and the diseases drag you out of the workforce for awhile. I wonder how many working adults can afford that amount of time sick?
The whole "it's a money making scheme!!111!!1" puzzles me the most. Isn't...EVERYTHING a money making scheme? Someone is making money on every single thing I buy, medical or otherwise. Why is that a
Yeah, no one is making a penny off of those essential oils or "immunity drinks". Fucking DERP.
The whole "it's a money making scheme!!111!!1" puzzles me the most. Isn't...EVERYTHING a money making scheme? Someone is making money on every single thing I buy, medical or otherwise. Why is that a
Yeah, no one is making a penny off of those essential oils or "immunity drinks". Fucking DERP.
no no, it's ok, because they're natural and holistic, and not endorsed by a government and/or public health agency who is out to get us all.