Ben and I got into a very heated discussion, each insisting we were correct. What answer do you get?
Steve trades spiders and bugs for snakes. He finds a lot of spiders in the attic of his house. Janie finds snakes in her garden. She gives Steve 2 snakes for 7 spiders. Steve traded 35 spiders and bugs for snakes this month. How many snakes did he get from Janie?
Well, we aren't told whether "and bugs" trade for snakes at the same rate as spiders, so that's a little confusing. It also doesn't say Steve traded all of his spiders and bugs with Janie, so there could be another exchange rate with someone else. However, without that information I'd interpret the problem to say that 7 (spiders + bugs) = 2 snakes, so multiplying each side of the equation by 5 gives us 35 (spiders + bugs) = 10 snakes.
I say there is not enough information (it doesn't say that is always the rate, and it says nothing about bugs), but I would bet the answer they give is 10.
Well, we aren't told whether "and bugs" trade for snakes at the same rate as spiders, so that's a little confusing. It also doesn't say Steve traded all of his spiders and bugs with Janie, so there could be another exchange rate with someone else. However, without that information I'd interpret the problem to say that 7 (spiders + bugs) = 2 snakes, so multiplying each side of the equation by 5 gives us 35 (spiders + bugs) = 10 snakes.
Yes! The problem clearly states Janie gives Steve two snakes. I insisted the answer was 2. I thought this was a relevant info vs irrelevant info kind of problem. But no. I was wrong and the answer is 10. What kind of bullshit question is that?!?
Not looking at other answers so no throwing stones if others disagree! The answer is 10. Caveat: the problem throws "bugs" in along with the spiders, which is needlessly confusing, but given that this a second grade problem, I'm going to assume "bugs" is superfluous and can be ignored.
ETA: OK, I see others read it the same way, which is comforting. I've complained on here many times about poorly written math questions. This isn't of the ilk I usually see,* but it is a good example of one that is written in a needlessly confusing manner.
*What I usually see that drives me to distraction is unclear or incomplete questions. Ex. "Steve and Jane are exchanging apples and oranges, because everyone knows that snakes and spiders are creepy and gross. Steve has 14 marshmallows, Jane has 2 scooters, and neighbor Joe is wearing green pants. Solve."
Well, we aren't told whether "and bugs" trade for snakes at the same rate as spiders, so that's a little confusing. It also doesn't say Steve traded all of his spiders and bugs with Janie, so there could be another exchange rate with someone else. However, without that information I'd interpret the problem to say that 7 (spiders + bugs) = 2 snakes, so multiplying each side of the equation by 5 gives us 35 (spiders + bugs) = 10 snakes.
Yes! The problem clearly states Janie gives Steve two snakes. I insisted the answer was 2. I thought this was a relevant info vs irrelevant info kind of problem. But no. I was wrong and the answer is 10. What kind of bullshit question is that?!?
I think you could argue that *if* that's the unit he was studying because the wording is confusing. But I would assume it's more likely to be multiplication/algebra and the answer would be 10.
Not looking at other answers so no throwing stones if others disagree! The answer is 10. Caveat: the problem throws "bugs" in along with the spiders, which is needlessly confusing, but given that this a second grade problem, I'm going to assume "bugs" is superfluous and can be ignored.
ETA: OK, I see others read it the same way, which is comforting. I've complained on here many times about poorly written math questions. This isn't of the ilk I usually see,* but it is a good example of one that is written in a needlessly confusing manner.
*What I usually see that drives me to distraction is unclear or incomplete questions. Ex. "Steve and Jane are exchanging apples and oranges, because everyone knows that snakes and spiders are creepy and gross. Steve has 14 marshmallows, Jane has 2 scooters, and neighbor Joe is wearing green pants. Solve."
"and explain how you found the answer." I'm like, "I found the answer because it says JANIE GAVE STEVE TWO SNAKES!!"
Well, we aren't told whether "and bugs" trade for snakes at the same rate as spiders, so that's a little confusing. It also doesn't say Steve traded all of his spiders and bugs with Janie, so there could be another exchange rate with someone else. However, without that information I'd interpret the problem to say that 7 (spiders + bugs) = 2 snakes, so multiplying each side of the equation by 5 gives us 35 (spiders + bugs) = 10 snakes.
Yes! The problem clearly states Janie gives Steve two snakes. I insisted the answer was 2. I thought this was a relevant info vs irrelevant info kind of problem. But no. I was wrong and the answer is 10. What kind of bullshit question is that?!?
You are approaching this with the law school mindset. At this level, it is far more likely to be a poorly written question than a tricky question designed to test a child's ability to sort relevant from irrelevant information.
ETA: FWIW, H and I had a huge fight one night over how a 1st grade math question was written because we both read it differently.
Post by secretlyevil on Jan 31, 2015 17:08:42 GMT -5
Janie gives him two snakes for his seven bugs. If he collected 35 and traded all for snakes, it would be 10 snakes as long as the going exchange rate continued. The bugs wording is confusing as hell though. ANDPLUSALSO, this is second grade math?!?!?!?
Yes! The problem clearly states Janie gives Steve two snakes. I insisted the answer was 2. I thought this was a relevant info vs irrelevant info kind of problem. But no. I was wrong and the answer is 10. What kind of bullshit question is that?!?
You are approaching this with the law school mindset. At this level, it is far more likely to be a poorly written question than a tricky question designed to test a child's ability to sort relevant from irrelevant information.
ETA: FWIW, H and I had a huge fight one night over how a 1st grade math question was written because we both read it differently.
I know. It's funny because Ben is very literal and I was surprised that he got 10. But of course, he sits in class where they do several of these problems together, so he knew what the question was looking for.
You are approaching this with the law school mindset. At this level, it is far more likely to be a poorly written question than a tricky question designed to test a child's ability to sort relevant from irrelevant information.
ETA: FWIW, H and I had a huge fight one night over how a 1st grade math question was written because we both read it differently.
I know. It's funny because Ben is very literal and I was surprised that he got 10. But of course, he sits in class where they do several of these problems together, so he knew what the question was looking for.
This is precisely why I get so frustrated. I understand that students should understand the context because they sat through the lesson in class that day. The problem is that 1st or 2nd (or 3rd, etc.) graders are little kids and don't always pay attention, so when a poorly-worded question comes home and Preshus doesn't know how to answer because he wasn't paying sufficient attention, the parents are at a loss because the question reads like word vomit.
Steve trades spiders and bugs for snakes. He finds a lot of spiders in the attic of his house. Janie finds snakes in her garden. She gives Steve 2 snakes PER 7 spiders. Steve traded 35 spiders for snakes this month. How many snakes did he get from Janie?
2 snakes per 7 spiders. Cut out the bug stuff. There. All clear.
Steve trades Janie for spiders and bugs for snakes. He finds a lot of spiders in the attic of his house. Janie finds snakes in her garden. She gives Steve 2 snakes PER 7 spiders. Steve traded Janie 35 spiders for snakes this month. How many snakes did he get from Janie?
2 snakes per 7 spiders. Cut out the bug stuff. There. All clear.
This is pretty intense for grade 2. To show how I would do it at a grade 2 level I would use pictures since a grade 2's understanding of ratios is…well…limited?
I just asked my husband to listen to the question and his answer to it was "who cares?", lol. He is a grade 6 teacher. Follow up comment was "freaking absurd".
That being said, I see what they did there. Also, at a grade 2 level a t-chart would work, I can't really draw one here but imagine snakes spiders 2 7 4 14 6 21 8 28 10 35
The question is made slightly more challenging (read: confusing) by the superfluous details and is also a bit more challenging since most kids would create a growing pattern as I showed it but it would mean that the 'answer' would be found on the left side of the t-chart but we tend to presume answers will be on the right side of t-charts…not sure if that makes any sense.
I just asked my husband to listen to the question and his answer to it was "who cares?", lol. He is a grade 6 teacher. Follow up comment was "freaking absurd".
That being said, I see what they did there. Also, at a grade 2 level a t-chart would work, I can't really draw one here but imagine snakes spiders 2 7 4 14 6 21 8 28 10 35
The question is made slightly more challenging (read: confusing) by the superfluous details and is also a bit more challenging since most kids would create a growing pattern as I showed it but it would mean that the 'answer' would be found on the left side of the t-chart but we tend to presume answers will be on the right side of t-charts…not sure if that makes any sense.