Joe Biden, We Need To Talk About How You Touch Women

[summer]

newsfeed.gawker.com/joe-biden-we-need-to-talk-about-the-way-you-touch-wome-1686648038/+LeahBeckmann





This week the Vice President and Social Chair of the United States groped the wife of Ashton Carter as he was sworn in as Secretary of Defense. This was funny—Joe Biden, he's wacky!—but also sort of not funny and indicative of a creepy, creepy trend.



Biden's questionable "hold your shoulders from behind while I whisper in your ear" maneuver might've been merely funny if it were a one-off, or prom:





But it wasn't either of those things: it was Joe Biden acting in his capacity as veep, and just the latest installation in a long collection of Groping Joe Moments:



He's creeped on a senator's young daughter.





He's creeped on a congressman's wife.





He's creeped on a biker.




He's very fond of the touching from behind—generally frowned upon with strangers.



He clutched two elderly woman at once.



You're not supposed to touch children like that if they aren't your children.



He was very affectionate at a soldier's funeral.



He touched this other little girl who was in turn touching her stuffed dog (that last part is OK).




Did he really need to kiss this elderly supporter on the lips while touching her with both hands? I can't be certain but probably not.





Hm.



Senator Chris Coons' daughter looks uncomfortable in this clearer view.



Joe Biden went in for the kiss with an usher at the Little League World Series.



Maybe he's just a very warm man. Maybe he's more affectionate than almost all other adults. But ask yourself this: if this were any other male politician, would we be so quick to add it to the meme pile? Try this: look at all of those photos and imagine, say, Paul Ryan's face instead of Biden's.

[jeaniebueller]

I have definitely raised my eyebrows at some of the Biden memes as it relates to women and being touchy feeling. I don't care for it.

[IIOY]

My FIL was bitching about this yesterday, which immediately made me skeptical, but ITA if this were anyone other than Joe, we'd be more outraged. Just because he's sort of a cuddly, often hilarious, old man who may or may not represent our political beliefs on any given issue doesn't make discomfort-inducing touches OK.

[Deleted]

Ew for the mouth kissing.

[Velar Fricative]

Ack, I'm cringing.

I think there isn't outrage because he's like that creepy relative many people have. "Oh, that's just how he is..."

[omgzombies]

It always seems to be done out of genuine affection, and not in an attempt to be creepy. Yeah, he should probably get better about reading body language, but he gets a pass from me. Though I'll be the first to admit I have a lot of touchy feely relatives, so I'm kinda used to it.

[jillboston]

Feb 23, 2015 8:41:50 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

I've seen him pull at least two of these on the President.

I'm glad he touches him though - Obama could use a bro hug now and again- if only to loosen him up a little.

[iammalcolmx]

Minus the lip kisses I still don't mind what he does.

[KateAggie]

All I have to do is picture Huckabee doing the same things and yeah, nope. Not ok. Not in any way shape or form. Intent is absolutely meaningless.

[josieposy]

That poor Senator's daughter looks very uncomfortable.

[MrsAxilla]

Lol at shock collar.

[sushi]

Ick.

[pixy0stix]

The old ladies love it. The biker lady clearly was not uncomfortable. So some of these instances aren't really big deals.

Some of the others are. He clearly has no defined personal space.

[wawa]

You guys...look at the looks on the faces of the bikers. They're totally having a silent conversation along the lines of
"why the fuck is that old man touching my lady??"
"dude, he's the veep. And we're on camera. You can't punch him."
"are you sure?"
"yes."
*sigh*

Biden also gets handsy with men...which I think bears mentioning. I'm not sure it's a "all ladies are fair game" issue with him. But that doesn't make it ok. GET OUT OF MY BUBBLE. The man needs to learn to read body language and respect some personal space, even if he cracks me up. I mean...I also love my Uncle J, but I have no qualms about stiff arming the man when he comes in for a mouth kiss. NOPE.

[jeaniebueller]

Feb 23, 2015 8:53:41 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

It always seems to be done out of genuine affection, and not in an attempt to be creepy. Yeah, he should probably get better about reading body language, but he gets a pass from me. Though I'll be the first to admit I have a lot of touchy feely relatives, so I'm kinda used to it. 

Not trying to pick on you specifically, but we have so many discussions on this board about women and women having autonomy over their bodies, I guess seeing that anyone feels this way is surprising to me. I don't care what someone's intent is, don't touch me unless I am inviting you to do so, KWIM?

[pescalita]

He touches everyone the same way, which means he's not respecting their wishes, period.

Not about intent, not about some people like it. Joe Biden does not respect people's space.

[wawa]

Feb 23, 2015 10:32:05 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Feb 23, 2015 8:53:41 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

It always seems to be done out of genuine affection, and not in an attempt to be creepy. Yeah, he should probably get better about reading body language, but he gets a pass from me. Though I'll be the first to admit I have a lot of touchy feely relatives, so I'm kinda used to it. 

Not trying to pick on you specifically, but we have so many discussions on this board about women and women having autonomy over their bodies, I guess seeing that anyone feels this way is surprising to me. I don't care what someone's intent is, don't touch me unless I am inviting you to do so, KWIM?

It's the difference between "somebody needs to tell him that he's being a creeper" and "somebody needs to punch that creepy fucker,"  you know?  Intent doesn't change that it's not ok - but it does change how you fix it.  You can't fix somebody who's doing it on purpose knowing the subject is uncomfortable by explaining that it makes people uncomfortable. 

[jeaniebueller]

Feb 23, 2015 10:38:39 GMT -5 wawa said:

Feb 23, 2015 10:32:05 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Not trying to pick on you specifically, but we have so many discussions on this board about women and women having autonomy over their bodies, I guess seeing that anyone feels this way is surprising to me. I don't care what someone's intent is, don't touch me unless I am inviting you to do so, KWIM?

It's the difference between "somebody needs to tell him that he's being a creeper" and "somebody needs to punch that creepy fucker,"  you know?  Intent doesn't change that it's not ok - but it does change how you fix it.  You can't fix somebody who's doing it on purpose knowing the subject is uncomfortable by explaining that it makes people uncomfortable. 

Serious question though, he can't tell through body language that some of these women are uncomfortable? I can spot it a mile away.

[IIOY]

If Joe Biden came up from behind me and grabbed my shoulders, it wouldn't matter if his intent was to use his superpowers to heal my bad back. I'd go full Afroman and be in jail.

[wawa]

Feb 23, 2015 10:41:51 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Feb 23, 2015 10:38:39 GMT -5 wawa said:

It's the difference between "somebody needs to tell him that he's being a creeper" and "somebody needs to punch that creepy fucker,"  you know?  Intent doesn't change that it's not ok - but it does change how you fix it.  You can't fix somebody who's doing it on purpose knowing the subject is uncomfortable by explaining that it makes people uncomfortable. 

Eh, I hate, hate people touching my shoulders and my response would be the same no matter someone's intent: "Stop touching me".

I don't care about someone's intent really, because it's not the point. The point is, stop touching me.

I'm not sure how this wasn't clear - but I totally agree with you that he needs to stop.  Obviously the people in question aren't comfortable telling him to keep his mitts to himself for whatever reason - so he needs a handler to tell him to knock it the fuck off.  The fact that I'm inclined to think he's just a handsy idiot instead of an intentionally invasive asshole just means I think he'd be amenable to a reminder - not that he should get a pass.

Though maybe since he's been doing this his whole damn career and he's not exactly a spring chicken - he DOES know better and just doesn't care.  I'll own that I'm only inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on judging his character (vs. his judgment) because I like him.  If it was Huckabee I'd just think he was a dick.

Either way - yeah, he needs to be told to stop it because it's just not ok.

[wawa]

Feb 23, 2015 10:41:04 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Feb 23, 2015 10:38:39 GMT -5 wawa said:

It's the difference between "somebody needs to tell him that he's being a creeper" and "somebody needs to punch that creepy fucker,"  you know?  Intent doesn't change that it's not ok - but it does change how you fix it.  You can't fix somebody who's doing it on purpose knowing the subject is uncomfortable by explaining that it makes people uncomfortable. 

Serious question though, he can't tell through body language that some of these women are uncomfortable? I can spot it a mile away.

I don't know.  Some people really truly can't take a hint so it's not impossible.  But like I said in my post a second ago - as I'm thinking about it - it's not like he's new.  So.....he should have learned by now.  So maybe he really IS an asshole who doesn't care if people are uncomfortable.

[litebright]

Feb 23, 2015 8:37:49 GMT -5 mockingbird said:

I think I'm less skeeved out because he has shown time and time again that he has no filter/concept of appropriate behavior.

I totally admit I'm biased because I'm kind of smitten with him. You'd THINK that the Obama would have appointed him some sort of public speaking/behavior coach. Or maybe just fitted him with a shock collar, for when he's getting too close or saying something ridiculous.

The concept of a Joe Biden shock collar just killed me dead for laughing. 

[omgzombies]

Feb 23, 2015 10:32:05 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Feb 23, 2015 8:53:41 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

It always seems to be done out of genuine affection, and not in an attempt to be creepy. Yeah, he should probably get better about reading body language, but he gets a pass from me. Though I'll be the first to admit I have a lot of touchy feely relatives, so I'm kinda used to it. 

Not trying to pick on you specifically, but we have so many discussions on this board about women and women having autonomy over their bodies, I guess seeing that anyone feels this way is surprising to me. I don't care what someone's intent is, don't touch me unless I am inviting you to do so, KWIM?

I don't think you're picking on me, don't worry .  And I'm not saying that it's ok, or that it shouldn't stop.  I was just disagreeing with the premises of the article that it was because he's a "creeper", which to me means doing something either in to display power over the other individual (cat-calling would be a good example) or groping/touching an individual because it gets you off.  I don't think he's doing either of those things, I think he's just completely ignorant of what most people consider to be personal space/touching.  

[wawa]

Feb 23, 2015 10:58:18 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Feb 23, 2015 10:48:32 GMT -5 wawa said:

I'm not sure how this wasn't clear - but I totally agree with you that he needs to stop.  Obviously the people in question aren't comfortable telling him to keep his mitts to himself for whatever reason - so he needs a handler to tell him to knock it the fuck off.  The fact that I'm inclined to think he's just a handsy idiot instead of an intentionally invasive asshole just means I think he'd be amenable to a reminder - not that he should get a pass.

Though maybe since he's been doing this his whole damn career and he's not exactly a spring chicken - he DOES know better and just doesn't care.  I'll own that I'm only inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on judging his character (vs. his judgment) because I like him.  If it was Huckabee I'd just think he was a dick.

Either way - yeah, he needs to be told to stop it because it's just not ok.

What you said was clear.  I just disagreed with part of it.  You said reaction depends on intent.  I say my reaction would be the same because intent means nothing when it comes to putting your hands on someone else's body. 

I'll use two examples from two different jobs I had. 

A male coworker of mine would always come up to be, from behind, and put his hands on my shoulders, like "Oh, you're so tense, I'll give you a message".  My response?  "Please don't touch me."

A female coworker of mine (who was a therapist, no less) came up to me one day, from behind, and put her hands on my shoulders like "Oh, you're so tense, is everything okay?".  My response?  "Please don't touch me."

Here's a third example I just thought of.

A new PCP I went in to see for anxiety was being very condescending to me about medication and in faux concern put her hands around my knees, as I was sitting up on the table, and she was like "You're so young, and you'll want kids someday, so no medication for you".  My response?  "Please don't touch me."

Three different intents, one response.  

eta:  I'm really disagreeing with what you've said, just saying how I wouldn't take intent into consideration when reacting to someone touching me.

Ohhhhh, ok.  I see.  I'm sorry.  I wasn't referring to the touchee's reaction, since obviously all of the people in this pictures (probably for a variety of reasons) didn't say that to him.   Yes, absolutely, somebody who doesn't want to be touched should just say so regardless of the touchers intent.  I in no way think they should just put up with it because "he doesn't mean anything by it."  

I was suggesting that if he's just clueless rather than an asshole, that it would be helpful if somebody in a position to do so sit his ass down and explain that it's not OK, even if the person says nothing.

[downtoearth]

Feb 23, 2015 11:16:48 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

Feb 23, 2015 10:32:05 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Not trying to pick on you specifically, but we have so many discussions on this board about women and women having autonomy over their bodies, I guess seeing that anyone feels this way is surprising to me. I don't care what someone's intent is, don't touch me unless I am inviting you to do so, KWIM?

I don't think you're picking on me, don't worry .  And I'm not saying that it's ok, or that it shouldn't stop.  I was just disagreeing with the premises of the article that it was because he's a "creeper", which to me means doing something either in to display power over the other individual (cat-calling would be a good example) or groping/touching an individual because it gets you off.  I don't think he's doing either of those things, I think he's just completely ignorant of what most people consider to be personal space/touching.  

I think he's too touchy-feely, but I have a feeling it has been mentioned to him over the years - you can easily find articles from mid 2000's that talk about his groping.  Also, I bet he is fully aware of both his inappropriate actions and how he will get skewered for them, but somehow that doesn't stop him b/c he's a witty, funny "dad-type" that women just brush off as "Joe is Joe."

[wawa]

Feb 23, 2015 11:23:21 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Feb 23, 2015 11:16:48 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

I don't think you're picking on me, don't worry .  And I'm not saying that it's ok, or that it shouldn't stop.  I was just disagreeing with the premises of the article that it was because he's a "creeper", which to me means doing something either in to display power over the other individual (cat-calling would be a good example) or groping/touching an individual because it gets you off.  I don't think he's doing either of those things, I think he's just completely ignorant of what most people consider to be personal space/touching.  

I think he's too touchy-feely, but I have a feeling it has been mentioned to him over the years - you can easily find articles from mid 2000's that talk about his groping.  Also, I bet he is fully aware of both his inappropriate actions and how he will get skewered for them, but somehow that doesn't stop him b/c he's a witty, funny "dad-type" that women just brush off as "Joe is Joe."

the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that he might just be an asshole who keeps brushing off suggestions that he should learn to keep his hands to himself.

Dammit Joe!  STOP IT.

[downtoearth]

Feb 23, 2015 11:29:04 GMT -5 wawa said:

Feb 23, 2015 11:23:21 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

I think he's too touchy-feely, but I have a feeling it has been mentioned to him over the years - you can easily find articles from mid 2000's that talk about his groping.  Also, I bet he is fully aware of both his inappropriate actions and how he will get skewered for them, but somehow that doesn't stop him b/c he's a witty, funny "dad-type" that women just brush off as "Joe is Joe."

the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that he might just be an asshole who keeps brushing off suggestions that he should learn to keep his hands to himself.

Dammit Joe!  STOP IT.

I do think there is something to him just thinking "this is the way I am, take it or leave it!" Maybe he thinks it's part of his personality?!  I don't think he wants to change and I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.

[omgzombies]

Feb 23, 2015 11:31:20 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Feb 23, 2015 11:29:04 GMT -5 wawa said:

the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that he might just be an asshole who keeps brushing off suggestions that he should learn to keep his hands to himself.

Dammit Joe!  STOP IT.

I do think there is something to him just thinking "this is the way I am, take it or leave it!" Maybe he thinks it's part of his personality?!  I don't think he wants to change and I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.

This would not surprise me in the least.

[wawa]

Feb 23, 2015 11:31:20 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Feb 23, 2015 11:29:04 GMT -5 wawa said:

the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that he might just be an asshole who keeps brushing off suggestions that he should learn to keep his hands to himself.

Dammit Joe!  STOP IT.

I do think there is something to him just thinking "this is the way I am, take it or leave it!" Maybe he thinks it's part of his personality?!  I don't think he wants to change and I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.

I'm going to totally flip flop at this point - he's a career politician.  The number of people in that position who AREN'T some level of self-important douche monkey is negligible I'd imagine.  You have to be pretty full of yourself to think that you're suited to run the country and then actually get out there and do it.  He's pretty self-deprecating in a lot of other ways - so this is his "i'm just that awesome" coming out.  Like...when people are all, "dude, stop!" he's probably thinking, "I hear you, but...I mean....Why WOULDN'T you want me to touch you?"

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2015 10:36:02 GMT -5 pescalita said:

He touches everyone the same way, which means he's not respecting their wishes, period.

Not about intent, not about some people like it. Joe Biden does not respect people's space.

Exactly and I don't care that some people are okay with it. Those poor girls are not and they are unfortunately not in a position to tell old dude to back the fuck off.

What horrifies me is that their parents are right there, helping to instill the notion that men of power get to make you feel uncomfortable and weird and not only will you not be able to tell them to knock it off, no one will come to your defense either.

These pictures make me feel incredibly uncomfortable and sad and decidedly feminist, which is nice since Patricia Arquette did a nice job of reminding me why the feminism movement as a whole doesn't exactly make me feel any sort of solidarity with him.

If Uncle Joe can't figure out when people are receptive to his touch and when they would like the crawl in a hole and die, then he ought to keep his hands to himself full fucking time.