I ask because an acquaintance who is anti- gay and anti-abortion because the bible says so s getting divorced. For some reason I thought she wouldnt do that for religious reasons....but I'm not well versed on what the bible says on divorce.
a) its not about what the bible says. We aren't literalists b) it could be annulled, which is allowed. We have things that make it annul worthy (like deception pre marriage or abuse or other things)
Ha, I have the same situation. A couple who go on and on about serving the Lord and the Bible. They are both previously divorced and have children with multiple people. I don't have a problem with these things, I just find them hypocritical.
a) its not (only) about what the bible says. We aren't literalists b) it could be annulled, which is allowed. We have things that make it annul worthy (like deception pre marriage or abuse or other things)
Good answer irish...just changed it a bit ("only").
To be clear an annulment is not a "Catholic divorce" although I can certainly see why some feel that way considering how many there are these days. It is basically saying that the marriage never really happened; it was invalid right from the start. Causes for that are some of the things that irish mentioned.
Post by basilosaurus on Aug 9, 2012 8:01:41 GMT -5
Most of what I've heard (from fundie radio) refers to being unequally yoked. So if 1 is a Christer, and the other isn't, that's grounds for divorce, essentially. Even in OT world.
Literally, the bible, specifically Jesus, was death on divorce.
Funnily enough, Jesus never mentions homosexuality.
Not looking to turn this into a Bible discussion on homosexuality (or a Bible discussion period), but He does reiterate OT teaching about a man and a woman marrying.
Post by snarkymalarky on Aug 9, 2012 8:10:48 GMT -5
Coming out of lurkdom for this one. This is my co-worker. She goes on and on about the evils of abortion (the crappy economy is due to Roe v wade you know...) and homosexual men are the reason for all child molestation. She is very Southern Baptist. The irony is that she divorced her husband bc she "just didn't love him anymore" and finds no qualms with that. Everyday I am at work requires a great deal of tongue biting.
Well, the Gospels sort of contradict each other on whether there is just cause or not for divorce.
Can you share the contradiction? Because although I know that the Bible appears to contradict (esp when comparing OT and NT), I always thought it was pretty clear on divorce.
So from my understanding, they are divorcing because she is a "hippie fundamentalist homeschooler" (her words!) and he just doesnt have the same passion. they just argue and argue and argue (true story, its all over facebook all the dayum time). There has not been (as far as i know) infidelity or abuse.
I do find it hypocritical. I don't care they are divorcing, but she uses the bible as justification for being anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage and yet she's divorcing. Seems....I dont know. Not right.
So from my understanding, they are divorcing because she is a "hippie fundamentalist homeschooler" (her words!) and he just doesnt have the same passion. they just argue and argue and argue (true story, its all over facebook all the dayum time). There has not been (as far as i know) infidelity or abuse.
I do find it hypocritical. I don't care they are divorcing, but she uses the bible as justification for being anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage and yet she's divorcing. Seems....I dont know. Not right.
I hear you....but I would just say she's a sinner just like the rest of us.
I don't doubt the ability to make the Bible work for you when you want it to (general "you"), but I think the unequally yoked refers to a believer and an unbeliever.
Matthew says "except for infidelity / adultery / being an unchaste slutty slut, which is an inaccurate translation of the Greek word anyway. Mark and Luke make no exception.
I don't know that I would call that a contradiction. Not mentioning something doesn't necessarily mean a contradiction. Now, if Mark and Luke specifically said "there are no exceptions", I would call that a contradiction.
Thats the great thing about the bible - instead of trying to do what god wants, you can do what you want, then find the bits in it that prove you right! Hence....everything...
a) its not (only) about what the bible says. We aren't literalists b) it could be annulled, which is allowed. We have things that make it annul worthy (like deception pre marriage or abuse or other things)
Good answer irish...just changed it a bit ("only").
To be clear an annulment is not a "Catholic divorce" although I can certainly see why some feel that way considering how many there are these days. It is basically saying that the marriage never really happened; it was invalid right from the start. Causes for that are some of the things that irish mentioned.
But even if she gets a religious annulment, she will be getting a civil divorce. And in the eyes of the state, the marriage did happen and was simply dissolved. The church and the state view it differently. This is why I get so frustrated with people who don't want same-sex couple to be able to be civilly married while still supporting the right of married couples to be civilly divorced.
I don't doubt the ability to make the Bible work for you when you want it to (general "you"), but I think the unequally yoked refers to a believer and an unbeliever.
According to the numerous talk radio shows I heard on this topic, it refers to more than that.
Granted I listened to protestant radio, but the gist of it was that it referred to people who didn't have the same beliefs. Whether they were believing in the salvation prayer or catechism or whatever, they were unequal. They could both be believers but believe in different aspects, and that was unequal.
Mostly I listened to this stuff to stay awake on too long drives, despite believing in none of it, but I generally, as an outsider,heard it as these strong conservatives sanctioning divorce of people with a different take on the gospels (and beyond).
I don't doubt the ability to make the Bible work for you when you want it to (general "you"), but I think the unequally yoked refers to a believer and an unbeliever.
According to the numerous talk radio shows I heard on this topic, it refers to more than that.
Granted I listened to protestant radio, but the gist of it was that it referred to people who didn't have the same beliefs. Whether they were believing in the salvation prayer or catechism or whatever, they were unequal. They could both be believers but believe in different aspects, and that was unequal.
Mostly I listened to this stuff to stay awake on too long drives, despite believing in none of it, but I generally, as an outsider,heard it as these strong conservatives sanctioning divorce of people with a different take on the gospels (and beyond).
I understand. This is what happens when we interpret the Bible the way we see fit. There is no end to what unequally yoked could mean. Maybe a couple should get divorced because one believes in eating meat and the other does not.....
Most of what I've heard (from fundie radio) refers to being unequally yoked. So if 1 is a Christer, and the other isn't, that's grounds for divorce, essentially. Even in OT world.
That's what fundie radio says but...that's not really what the Bible says. (Paul says not to get married if it'll be unequal (2 Cor. 6). Paul also says that if the believer and the unbeliever are willing to put up w/ the difference, not to leave over it. (1 Cor 7)--not really a verse that leaves a lot of gray area, regardless of translation
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.)
Post by basilosaurus on Aug 9, 2012 9:05:16 GMT -5
I, for one, would find that a perfectly reasonable explanation for divorce. There is no 1 right way for biblical interpretation.
It's not about "seeing fit." Plenty of people see fit against their own best interest.
But if you're going to pull in meat, yeah, I could easily divorce a man who thought it was acceptable to eat factory farmed meat 3 times a day despite where we were living. That's a deep incompatibility.
I think I'm only bothered because she is so judgemental of those who don't lead a 'biblical' lifestyle and yet here she is divorcing. But I suppose it can be justified biblically. Interesting stuff!
Also Sibil - isn't it 4am in Hawaii? Why the hell are you awake!?
I, for one, would find that a perfectly reasonable explanation for divorce. There is no 1 right way for biblical interpretation.
It's not about "seeing fit." Plenty of people see fit against their own best interest.
But if you're going to pull in meat, yeah, I could easily divorce a man who thought it was acceptable to eat factory farmed meat 3 times a day despite where we were living. That's a deep incompatibility.
OK, so apparently there are a lot of exceptions for divorce per the Bible since there are a lot of correct interpretations.
I think I'll stop here with the Bible talk....it's heading in the usual direction.
I think I'm only bothered because she is so judgemental of those who don't lead a 'biblical' lifestyle and yet here she is divorcing. But I suppose it can be justified biblically. Interesting stuff!
Also Sibil - isn't it 4am in Hawaii? Why the hell are you awake!?
I'd be bothered by it too. I mean I'd be bothered by it anyway, but to sort of just ignore that she isn't adhering to a "biblical lifestyle" either (by a long shot) is additionally irritating.
I'm sure this isn't the only area of life she is apathetic about.
I think I'm only bothered because she is so judgemental of those who don't lead a 'biblical' lifestyle and yet here she is divorcing. But I suppose it can be justified biblically. Interesting stuff!
Also Sibil - isn't it 4am in Hawaii? Why the hell are you awake!?
I'd be bothered by it too. I mean I'd be bothered by it anyway, but to sort of just ignore that she isn't adhering to a "biblical lifestyle" either (by a long shot) is additionally irritating.
I'm sure this isn't the only area of life she is apathetic about.
She's pretty darn rigid. And VERY vocal about others who aren't adhering to a biblical lifestyle. I'd imagine I won't be the only one questioning her about this.
I'm not surprised she's divorcing. I couldn't imagine someone being married to her.
The Catholic Chrch supports civil divorce in cases of abuse and a few other things. The issue comes with dating and remarriage. It's fine to separate homes and finances to protect one party or the other, but then according to the Church (unless an annulment is granted) the couple is still married and may not date or remarry.