Has anyone heard of this? (Warning, vent)

[thom]

My MIL loves to tell me about any new studies or random anecdote she hears about how long distance running or marathoning is bad for you. Fun times. I usually just nod and don't say very much. I run more for enjoyment, goal fulfillment, and personal solitude anyway, so I don't really care. She doesn't directly say it relates to me, and I don't even think she's trying to be a jerk. But, hello, I run marathons. Maybe she's just concerned, but it gets annoying.

Today she was telling me how one of her daughter's friends ran 10 miles last weekend( OMG, right??) and it brought on an underlying heart condition. I don't know all the details, and obviously I hope this friend is ok. She went on to say that new studies are showing extreme distance runners are actually having lots of heart problems, and it's causing their arteries to harden and clog.

For real? Now, I know certain aspects of distance running can be hard on your body, but I REALLY doubt that running is going to wreck my heart (unless I've got a non- diagnosed underlying condition) or clog my arteries. I didn't press her on where she heard this, mostly because I just don't want to hear about.

Have you heard of this? Ack!

I'm probably feeling especially sensitive because my hip flexors are still really sore and tight so I'm way down on mileage. I'm pretty sure I will have to re-evaluate my spring race plans, and I'm just frustrated.

[Mushe]

Oh good lord. She sounds exhausting. I haven't heard that, but just ick. I agree with you, I highly doubt there's really a study that says running is going to harden your arteries. Is there a nice way to shut her down on this garbage?

[gt7301b]

It sounds like your MIL read some studies and is using selective parts to induce panic.

A quick google search brings up articles that basically tell me that she needs to calm the f down. I haven't done more research outside of said quick google search, but ultimately my thoughts about the research is meh. They even say in the Runner's World article that the only thing the research showed is that the marathon runners had a higher artery plaque level (which is linked to decreased mortality rates). It also said a larger % of the runners were previously smokers. So we can't really prove causation here. Was it the smoking, running, or other factors that lead to the increase in plaque levels.

evidencemag.com/cardio-heart-disease-4

www.runnersworld.com/health/heart-risk-marathoners-have-increased-artery-plaque

I especially like this quote from ONE OF THE AUTHORS of the study:

Coauthor William Roberts, who's also medical director of the Twin Cities Marathon, notes: "When the sedentary group starts shoveling snow or racing after a bus, they're going to be at much higher risk than the runners. We don't see marathon runners dropping dead on a regular basis at Twin Cities. I'd rather be a marathoner than one of the sedentary guys."

[ktzmoh]

Yes it's true there have been a couple studies in the medical literature (one recently) that have shown that marathon running was correlated with bad heart outcomes. However these were not randomized trials. There are definitely scenarios I can think of where the decision to become a marathoner might be correlated with risk of heart attack, which would bias the results. To be fair, I can think of lots of reasons the bias would go the opposite direction.

I havent read the original studies, but i'd be super curious about the runners diets. I'm not a cardiologist, but I wonder if bad diet+stressful exercise might be worse for the heart than bad diet + no exercise, and if good diet + strenuous exercise might be the best combination? Calcium build up is something I would like to learn more about.

At any rate, they really need to do a random trial where at risk individuals are randomly assigned to a become-a-marathoner group and a control group.

And your MIL needs to mind her own business. I think It's common for people who are unhappy with their own health to try to resolve that internal conflict by convincing themselves that people who exercise are wrong for all sorts of reasons.

[thom]

Thanks ladies.

I guess there is more research on some of this than I thought, but I'm still not worried about it. I'll keep doing what I'm doing as long as my body will let me.

As for my MIL, I do try to be patient with her perspective because I don't want fights and drama. She's definitely insecure about being overweight , and she's trying to justify why she shouldn't be more active. ( I wish she would, but that's another story.) We get along fine mostly, but we're not close enough for me to be really open with her about things.

Mostly it's just nice to come here and talk things through. I know you guys won't judge me , and I appreciate that.

ETA: Mushe - that's a good way to put it; she can be exhausting !

[Stingyshark]

You gotta die somehow, amiright? At least you're going to conk out while you're doing something you love.

[labbie]

Oh believe me, I've heard it all- running will kill me one way or another between getting attacked, hit by a car/plow/motorcycle, wrecking my knees, my ankles, my back and yes by ruining my heart.

I smile and say "thank goodness I also drink red wine to counteract all the bad things running does to me."

[cinco]

My mom sends me all those studies. She is glad I am retiring from marathons (lets be honest, it will probably be just a long break ) I'm sure there is some truth out there, but my health is pretty darn good. And my knees are FINE, mom! I feel like I personally couldn't handle multiple marathons per year like others, and that is physical, mental, and personal (ie my DH would have some opinions about that). I just nod and smile when my mom tells me the studies or anecdotes.

[Mushe]

You are seriously the best - I love that you are able to see behind her words to her own insecurity that is driving it, and choose not to engage that. You deserve major kudos!

[wambam]

I know nothing about running and heart disease, but I totally understand family being overly concerned about things. My mother is absolutely convinced my beef and egg consumption will kill me dead in the next year. She tells me every time we eat together.

[theoriginalbean]

Do we have the same MIL?? You wouldn't believe some of the things she says about running.

[clseale]

It's so frustrating. Most people mean well, but you can find a study to support almost anything. Send her this: www.runnersworld.com/health/recreational-marathon-training-good-for-runners-hearts

While many of us peak well beyond this for marathon training, none of us are anywhere elite mileage, and few of us, even if we peak at 60+, are maintaining 50+ miles on the regular. I think the above study applies to all of us recreational marathoners.

[thom]

theoriginalbean -- sorry you're dealing with the same. Obviously I can make my own decisions about this stuff, so I know I shouldn't let her opinion bug me. I guess it does because she has brought it up so many times. I'm surprised at how many of you also hear these comments. Ug .

My own mom worries too, but she doesn't throw it in my face. She just tells me it's great no matter how far I get, and to be sure to stop if I get too tired. That always makes me smile, even though I know I won't stop when I'm "tired."

clseale - thanks for sharing that link; I'll look through. You are right that some sort of study seems to exist for justifying almost anything!

[spunkypenguin]

I specifically asked my Cardiac Arrhythmia Specialist if he thought that running had caused or exacerbated my heart condition. He said that he does see a lot of runners. He does not believe that running causes heart problems, but rather make them more noticeable. If I had remained sedentary, I probably would have never really noticed my A-Fib because it only really interferes with my life when I exert myself. When you are putting stress on the heart, these things become more noticeable and interfere with what you are doing/want to do, so people seek medical attention for it.

[runblondie26]

There are studies that show long term participation in endurance sports cause heart damage. There are many risks in life. You weigh them and decide which ones you want to take.

ETA: I also have abnormal EKGs. It was discovered about 5 yrs ago when I was having chest pain during a summer run and went to the doctor. I get monitored yearly by a cardiologist. They can't find any reason beyond "you're a long distance runner". Drink lots of water and take in a lot of salt is the only recommendation. I feel fine as long as I'm compliant.

[foundmylazybum]

Yes. I've heard of this. I've often wondered if there is a correlation between the idea that runners may be more self-aware of their bodies and thus go to the doctor more--and then heart issues are picked up more frequently than in the general population.

Example:

runblondie26 is more self-aware of what feels right and wrong in her body overall, AND has a more open relationship with her doctors. Beyond that she's involved in an activity she enjoys very much and it would be a great loss if she had to stop. So when she feels a twinge in her heart she immediately goes to her doctor to get it checked out. This isn't just her--it's the special population of runners in general so heart conditions are actually picked up more frequently in runners. Not that they happen more frequently.

Another example: I (FMLB) feel what is potentially a stress fracture in my foot. I immediately go to the doctor to get it checked out. Tell me a time when: even though the doctor is checking out my foot--he doesn't STILL do a general well check in which he listens to my heart, where he might pick up a heart problem?


It seems like runners have better or more frequent visits to the doctor--than the general population...so our heart conditions/issues might be picked up more frequently b/c..well we are seen more often.

Tell your MIL that.

[hannahb]

Yeah I've heard of this. It makes sense that endurance training can equal increased blood volume making your heart work harder/ increase in size and therefore maybe cause issues, I also think what people have said previously is part of the truth too. Runners are more apt to go to the doctor when they feel off. Plus if one runner collapses at a race it gets media attention because it's a runner, they should be "healthy".

[thom]

I'm happily overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you guys are sharing (and I'm learning) due to my need to vent yesterday. Thanks for all the perspectives!

spunkypenguin - I hope things are going well for you. Are you cleared for full exercise again as long as you're careful? I remember your first marathon saga last year very well, and I'm so glad you are okay!

runblondie26 - I never would have imagined that. I'm glad everything is pretty under control for you. I have a whole new respect for your running and your speedy abilities! You're also right that everything in life is a series of risks.

FMLB - Also very good points. I know this is true for me since I started running more seriously.

[spunkypenguin]

Mar 1, 2015 14:20:26 GMT -5 thom said:

I'm happily overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you guys are sharing (and I'm learning) due to my need to vent yesterday. Thanks for all the perspectives!

spunkypenguin - I hope things are going well for you. Are you cleared for full exercise again as long as you're careful? I remember your first marathon saga last year very well, and I'm so glad you are okay!

runblondie26 - I never would have imagined that. I'm glad everything is pretty under control for you. I have a whole new respect for your running and your speedy abilities! You're also right that everything in life is a series of risks.

FMLB - Also very good points. I know this is true for me since I started running more seriously.

I have been cleared! I will probably continue to have episodes sometimes but it's not bad enough to need medication or anything at this point

[ktzmoh]

My interest was really piqued by this thread and I spent a little time this morning looking at the literature. I found these to be interesting reads for anyone who is interested. I'm not planning on stopping running anytime soon, but it's enough to raise my eyebrows and I'll definitely keep an eye out on this literature.



Seidl and Asplund 2014

Taylor et al 2014

[Mushe]

Holy cow, this is awful (but coincidental) timing. I just found out that a running buddy collapsed and died while running; they're thinking heart attack. But he fits into that category mentioned above, where he was overweight and sedentary his whole life, and wanted to get fit and started running in his 50's. Such a sad thing, though.

[thom]

Mushe - I am so sorry for your loss and for his family. That is heartbreaking.

I guess this brings even more importance to "listening to your body." If you feel like something isn't right, monitor your effort and get checked out if you can. I hope we can all keep running happy & healthy for many years.

[Mushe]

Mar 3, 2015 8:17:06 GMT -5 thom said:

Mushe - I am so sorry for your loss and for his family. That is heartbreaking.

I guess this brings even more importance to "listening to your body." If you feel like something isn't right, monitor your effort and get checked out if you can. I hope we can all keep running happy & healthy for many years.

Yes, definitely!  I'm sorry in hindsight that I shared this story; I was in such shock yesterday.  I completely agree about listening to your body. 

[thom]

Mushe -- I don't think there's any reason to be sorry for sharing. It's important to hear the tough stuff too. I think what makes the board "real" is most of us do share what's hard and what we're actually dealing with. I'm sure it was really devastating news to hear, especially as you are training for marathon number 1. I am just so sorry.

I have learned a lot from this thread, and I'll also be sensitive that maybe my MIL is legitimately concerned. Though I still plan to keep on running as long as I can.

[kirra]

I know some people with mitral valve prolapse have had major problems show up during exercise, but MVP is often missed by doctors until it causes problems or a person gets a diagnosis that makes doctors check for it (such as Marfans or EDS).

So if she had an underlying heart condition, it makes sense that it showed up during exercise.

[schenkertobe]

I haven't read the literature, but my thought is that running doesn't cause heart conditions, but can unmask underlying heart conditions that already exist. You can have a heart condition from birth and never even know it if you lead a relatively sedentary lifestyle and don't ever stress your heart. But if that same person is a runner, then the symptoms of a heart condition are much more likely to present and be found. Therefore, its obvious that runners would have an higher incidence of heart conditions.