In Solidarity: When Caribbean Immigrants Become Black

[summer]

I have to admit here that I have always felt some kind of way about this topic. The union at my grandma's factory had a huge rift between American and Caribbean Black folks. And I grew up with people who would question whether I was good enough to be friends with their kids. Now look, I've been to your teenage daughter's basement parties- Do not put on airs with me, ok?

[iammalcolmx]

This is still happening in 2015? I take issue with anyone thinking are better than me.

[AJL]

Slightly tangential, but I started watching Black in Latin America by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. The first episode in the series is a very interesting look at self-identity in Haiti and Dominican Republic. The main purpose of this series is to look at the influence of African ancestry in Latin American and the Carribean, but it really does a good job of discussing self-perception and what it means to be black.

It's on Netflix streaming right now.

[Michelle]

Mar 4, 2015 3:37:20 GMT -5 @246baje said:

First black Caribbean immigrants don't have a problem being called black, they generally have a problem being called African American because well it is incorrect.

For the record I don't think Caribbean people in general think that they are better or better educated than black Americans. I think they think that about Americans in general, regardless of race.

I think I have mentioned here before long conversations with my brother about this. He didn't understand how he could come to this country with a HS education and work his way from bank teller to a VP and black Americans "had the same opportunities but weren't using them". So we have talked about how we didn't have Jim Crow Laws, how slavery was abolished a full generation in the Caribbean before the U.S., how our educational system is not built on where you live or property taxes (children test into HS at age 11) and even about how growing up all of the political leaders, doctors,lawyers, judges and jury were black like us and what a difference that makes in well, everything.

Until I came to the U.S. my academic ability was never once questioned with respect to race (in fact in my country the white children are often under performing and there are low expectations of them).

Also the people immigrating to the U.S. are a self selecting group so many of them are educated and are from middle to upper class backgrounds and even more of those who aren't, are driven and ambitious. The guys from a bad neighborhood who "lime on the block" all day are not coming to the U.S. and liming on the block in droves.

But the people I went to HS with? Who were the top 120 11 year olds in the country the year they tested? At least half of us have lived or are currently living in the U.S. or the UK post graduation.
We would have been successful anywhere in the world regardless of background but in the US you are just "Caribbean immigrant -successful" no backstory given.

So much like the white American men who are all "bootstraps!!!!" I think Caribbean immigrants get bootstrappy without acknowledging the significant leg up we have had.

I got schooled on the "we aren't from Africa" issue in HS and again in college which is why I tend to say, "Black" instead of African American if I have to include race as a reference point. 

And also I notice that most of my Black Conservative friends are from Caribbean island nations as either first generation or second. You put it so perfectly that some get "bootstrappy" and I never realized the leg up difference because I don't know about the history - your commentary is very educational, thanks for sharing.

[thejackpot]

This is something that I want to mull over a bit. As an AA raised in Miami with large populations of people from the Caribbean, there always seemed to be a riff between people from the Caribbean and AA sand some of it was even related to skin color. Now I do have a good number of friends who are from the islands but there def was a perception of a distinct chasm between the groups.

[thejackpot]

Oh and just to be clear, I would never expect them to consider themselves AA as that would be inaccurate.

[thejackpot]

Mar 6, 2015 9:11:24 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Mar 5, 2015 19:28:36 GMT -5 thejackpot said:

This is something that I want to mull over a bit. As an AA raised in Miami with large populations of people from the Caribbean, there always seemed to be a riff between people from the Caribbean and AA sand some of it was even related to skin color. Now I do have a good number of friends who are from the islands but there def was a perception of a distinct chasm between the groups.

This makes sense to me, because I think if there's anywhere where the rift would be omnipresent, it would be Miami. The West Indian population is so large, there is no need to assimilate/integrate if they don't want.

Yes, it is. It is great because there are so many cultures and you get great authentic experiences- food, celebrations etc. But it was unique growing up having people who essentially look like me be so distant to AAs. And there was the part of me that found it comical because to whites you are black and hello we know that comes with its own set of challenges. 

[thejackpot]

Mar 6, 2015 9:34:19 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Mar 6, 2015 9:22:40 GMT -5 thejackpot said:

Yes, it is. It is great because there are so many cultures and you get great authentic experiences- food, celebrations etc. But it was unique growing up having people who essentially look like me be so distant to AAs. And there was the part of me that found it comical because to whites you are black and hello we know that comes with its own set of challenges. 

But they are not refuting/denying their blackness.  I think it's more that it's a non-issue for them because they come from places where they are the majority race, so it's not something they have to constantly think about as a part of their identity the way some of us (certainly I, I am more than fine with admitting) do.

No, I get that they may not be refuting their blackness but as un-evolved high school students it came across as "I am not Black because I am X" well you are not AA but here you are black. Because things are black and white for the most part. 
And even though they are the majority race I think they can relate to distinctions between people because as far as I know most Caribbean people know a great deal about color/ wealth distinctions in the islands.