Milk supply issues

[estrellita]

I've been posting about this off and on in random threads and I know there have been some similar posts lately, but I could really use some hope. I just need to know that the stress I'm feeling right now is going to hopefully be worth it. It all started at the hospital when I was first trying to BF E. He had a hard time latching so the LC gave me a nipple shield. That kinda worked, but I had no milk whatsoever. We started supplementing with a syringe and SNS because I felt terrible that he hadn't eaten anything at all for about 36 hours at that point. We tried to keep it up at home but it was so frustrating having feeding be a two person job. So at the recommendation of our pediatrician, we started bottle feeding formula while I pump. The plan was to just start bottle feeding the breast milk once it came in instead of the formula. Problem is, there isn't enough milk. I'm 11 days PP now and the most I've been getting is a quarter ounce a session (between both sides, not each). Basically I'm looking for anyone that had their milk take this long and still were able to pump enough to not need formula. I just need to know that it's possible and that I need to keep trying.

I've been having a really rough time with this and am really thankful for the support I've gotten here so far. I've reached out to the hospital LCs a few times and have been in contact with someone from LLL. Unfortunately their advice hasn't really helped. The LLL person keeps telling me the best way to increase supply is to have E nurse, but he screams his head off every time I even try doing skin to skin. He either starts freaking out immediately, or he will start looking to nurse and freak out when he can't figure it out fast enough. I try to just let him go for a while, but listening to him scream kills me, so we end up giving in and giving him a bottle after a while.

So I've been trying to pump every 2-3 hours during or after E's feedings, massage while pumping, fenugreek, brewer's yeast, oatmeal and other food that is supposed to help. I just started the fenugreek and brewer's yeast on Sunday so I'm still waiting for that to kick in. So far it's only made a little bit of a difference (I went from just barely filling up the bottom of the milk container to a quarter ounce, so that's an improvement) but I'm going to give it some time to work. Any other ideas are welcome as well.

This got a little long, sorry about that. But if anyone has stories of their milk coming in super late or being able to increase their supply enough to get off formula, please let me know. I just need to know this isn't a lost cause!

[Deleted]

Can you do skin to skin after he is full and calm? Or feed him half and let him try to breast feed? Or have him try to feed well before his hungry? Those things work for me sometimes:)

Mostly big hugs since it's not working like it's supposed to for me either.

Other things--have the LCs watched you pump? You may need bigger or smaller flanges. Also did you rent a hospital pump? Those are more powerful and may help.

[Brie]

Where are you located in the US? Someone here may have recommendations of LCs or BF groups that are more helpful.

Are you eating and drinking enough?

Other than that I can just offer hugs. The newborn days are really, really hard and you're doing a great job.

[estrellita]

Mar 3, 2015 22:20:53 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

Can you do skin to skin after he is full and calm? Or feed him half and let him try to breast feed? Or have him try to feed well before his hungry? Those things work for me sometimes:)

Mostly big hugs since it's not working like it's supposed to for me either.

Other things--have the LCs watched you pump? You may need bigger or smaller flanges. Also did you rent a hospital pump? Those are more powerful and may help.

I've tried skin to skin right after he eats and he either screams right away or starts looking to nurse. I am fairly sure he's full because he won't take any more from the bottle and he's usually eaten 2-3 oz. I've also tried to get him to latch when he's hungry but he will try for a second and get pissed off because he's not getting anything.

The LC did watch me in the hospital but I'm not sure if she was paying that close of attention. I mentioned something about the flange size and they seemed to think it was fine. I have a Medela PISA pump, so a pretty good one. I don't know how much a hospital grade one would be to rent but I'm not sure if I can afford the extra cost but I could look into it I suppose.

[Brie]

Also, remember it's not all or nothing. Many posters here (myself included) have successfully combination fed their babies with both BM and formula.

[estrellita]

@littlemoxie I haven't tried the "power hour" thing yet but I will try that. I've noticed that I get most of my milk within the first 10 minutes and after that it's maybe a couple drops, so maybe that will help?

Brie I am in MN. I tried looking up a IBCLC in my specific area and there is nothing. The LCs at the hospital don't do appointments either and I haven't been able to find a BF group here. I wasn't really eating/drinking enough the first couple days home but I am more now. I probably could up my water intake though (I'm bad about it in general). More water definitely couldn't hurt!

[estrellita]

Also, I always tell everyone else that formula is totally fine and not to feel guilty, but for some reason when it's my own child, I feel incredibly guilty. I think it's because I had an idea of how I wanted things to go (BF for a few weeks until I started pumping to prepare for going back to work). I realized my original plan won't work, so I decided to just start exclusively pumping now instead of waiting. Well, that's not working either. So it just sucks when things don't work the way you envision it. And formula gets expensive.. we are already going to struggle with daycare costs so this is really going to hurt us. That was a huge reason I wanted to BF/pump.

[glauren]

I'm not sure if this is helpful to hear or not, but I needed to start supplementing at 4 weeks due to low supply and was able to BF until DS self-weaned at 11 months.
I have IGT (not enough storage tissue, basically) so even with power pumping and fenugreek and More Milk Plus I wasn't able to increase my supply all that much, unfortunately.
Can you try putting your LO to the breast before he gets hungry? Maybe he'll be a bit more patient/less upset?
I'm sorry, I know how emotional this is. Big, big hugs - you're doing a great job!

[water*drop]

Mar 3, 2015 22:27:19 GMT -5 estrellita said:

Mar 3, 2015 22:20:53 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

Can you do skin to skin after he is full and calm? Or feed him half and let him try to breast feed? Or have him try to feed well before his hungry? Those things work for me sometimes:)

Mostly big hugs since it's not working like it's supposed to for me either.

Other things--have the LCs watched you pump? You may need bigger or smaller flanges. Also did you rent a hospital pump? Those are more powerful and may help.

I've tried skin to skin right after he eats and he either screams right away or starts looking to nurse. I am fairly sure he's full because he won't take any more from the bottle and he's usually eaten 2-3 oz. 

Will he take a pacifier during skin-to-skin while he's full? If he's full and still looking to nurse, it's probably comfort nursing, which, while good for supply, obviously isn't helpful if he gets too mad when he's struggling to latch. At least that way you'd get some skin-to-skin time with him calm (which is also good for supply), and then you could maybe try to help him latch to comfort nurse after he's nice and settled and maybe sleepy? 

Hugs. 

[estrellita]

glauren I've tried skin to skin before and after eating and neither seemed to work

water*drop he does take a pacifier sometimes so maybe that will help. I will have to try that!

[glauren]

I'm so sorry!

[curbsideprophet]

If he wants to comfort nurse I would let him. Have you had him checked for tongue tie?

Have you tried expressing some milk before he latched so it is more ready for him?

[estrellita]

Mar 3, 2015 23:06:57 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

If he wants to comfort nurse I would let him. Have you had him checked for tongue tie?

Have you tried expressing some milk before he latched so it is more ready for him?

I've tried to let him do his thing but he gets frustrated easily even when I help him. He barely latches without the shield and either way he will suck a couple times and get pissed off. Then the screaming starts and doesn't stop until we give him a bottle. I haven't had him checked for a tongue or lip tie but maybe I will ask at his appointment on Monday. And I have tried expressing a little but I barely get anything and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Either I don't get enough or it's just not enough for him.

[lilac05]

I'm sorry you're struggling.

Try to eat a lot more. I sometimes eat so much that it's embarrassing...but anytime I cut back calories even a bit, my supply suffers. (To give you an idea, a calorie estimator for Breastfeeding told me I needed to eat 2600-2800 calories a day to maintain my supply! I think it's a little high, but not crazy high, given my experiences!). Oatmeal is supposed to be really good for supply. Google lactation cookies. There are a ton of recipes out there...choose whichever looks best to you.

I hope you're able to find someone who can help! It's so hard to find someone who can help push/guide you though the worst days while not shaming you for supplementing, if needed.

Keep telling yourself that you will do whatever it takes to make this work, but if it doesn't work or if it becomes too much, there is nothing wrong with supplementing (or switching completely). Don't worry about the big picture, just worry about today.

[Brie]

Mar 3, 2015 22:37:10 GMT -5 estrellita said:

Also, I always tell everyone else that formula is totally fine and not to feel guilty, but for some reason when it's my own child, I feel incredibly guilty. I think it's because I had an idea of how I wanted things to go (BF for a few weeks until I started pumping to prepare for going back to work). I realized my original plan won't work, so I decided to just start exclusively pumping now instead of waiting. Well, that's not working either. So it just sucks when things don't work the way you envision it. And formula gets expensive.. we are already going to struggle with daycare costs so this is really going to hurt us. That was a huge reason I wanted to BF/pump.

It does suck. I will say, though, that I killed myself pumping constantly to keep up with my huge eater. When I finally gave him a bottle of formula, I cried I was so relieved, and it was SUCH a non-event. I wished I'd done it sooner, and I continued to BF my son until he was 17 months old. Formula strengthened my BF relationship because I wasn't so stressed all the time, and I enjoyed the experience much more.

[Deleted]

I don't know if they really help or not for sure, but the lactation cookie recipe fortmyersbride posted the other day are delicious! They are easy to eat with one hand which is always helpful too.

[estrellita]

Mar 3, 2015 23:26:47 GMT -5 Brie said:

Mar 3, 2015 22:37:10 GMT -5 estrellita said:

Also, I always tell everyone else that formula is totally fine and not to feel guilty, but for some reason when it's my own child, I feel incredibly guilty. I think it's because I had an idea of how I wanted things to go (BF for a few weeks until I started pumping to prepare for going back to work). I realized my original plan won't work, so I decided to just start exclusively pumping now instead of waiting. Well, that's not working either. So it just sucks when things don't work the way you envision it. And formula gets expensive.. we are already going to struggle with daycare costs so this is really going to hurt us. That was a huge reason I wanted to BF/pump.

It does suck. I will say, though, that I killed myself pumping constantly to keep up with my huge eater. When I finally gave him a bottle of formula, I cried I was so relieved, and it was SUCH a non-event. I wished I'd done it sooner, and I continued to BF my son until he was 17 months old. Formula strengthened my BF relationship because I wasn't so stressed all the time, and I enjoyed the experience much more.

I did feel better at the hospital supplementing because I knew he was eating something and he needed it. Now though it makes me super emotional every time I think about it. I know it's not my fault but I can't help but feeling like a failure. It's been really rough on me and I just wish there were better resources around here to go to.

[pugz]

I am so sorry. Low supply and a baby mad at the boob are the worst. I had no milk for at least a week and got less than an oz a day from pumping at every feeding. Combination of sleepy late term preemie + PCOS hormone problems + possible IGT. We were able to combo feed for 13 weeks. A 90 min consilt with an LC helped so much with fixing our latch issues.

You are NOT a failure. These early days are so very hard. It will get easier, i promise.

[estrellita]

Did the Reglan help you at all farmvillelover? I'm thinking of trying these supplements for a week or two before maybe asking about that. I'm afraid though of the possible depression side effect. I have a history of depression and my mental health hasn't been great with these issues. But then again, if my supply were to go up enough, I would probably feel better. Idk though.

[jorja]

No advice that hasn't been offered...just wanted to tell you I'm so sorry...those early days are so hard when breastfeeding isn't working out the way you wanted it to.

[bbmomma]

I'm so sorry. I've been there and know how you feel. I used domperidone with my son, and even with it, produced about 50-75% of what he consumed. The rest was formula.
With my almost 5 month old, I was able to exclusively nurse while I was home with her full time. However, now that I'm back at work, I am pumping enough for 4-2.5 oz bottles and she drinks 4-3 oz bottles. For now, she is getting 0.5 oz formula in each and I am waiting on my domperidone to come in from overseas. Given my experience with it from my son, I expect to not only be able to produce enough, but be able to freeze some daily.
I would definitely contact a Dr about domperidone. Reglan has seriously scary side effects and the lack of FDA approval for dom is VERY political in nature. (I've read the full reports for both with regards to side effects, and spoken with somebody I know in pharm R&D about it) It IS illegal for a provider to prescribe domperidone, but most will talk to you about how to take it and be able to give you information on how it may interact with other things you are taking.

Are you still taking your prenatal? I know it seems silly, but I stopped taking for a while and my supply dropped significantly. Started taking them again, and went right back to where I had been within 2 or 3 days.

If you have any questions about my experiences with dom, or just supply issues, I'm kind of an open book.

[christy082]

Mar 3, 2015 22:37:10 GMT -5 estrellita said:

Also, I always tell everyone else that formula is totally fine and not to feel guilty, but for some reason when it's my own child, I feel incredibly guilty. I think it's because I had an idea of how I wanted things to go (BF for a few weeks until I started pumping to prepare for going back to work). I realized my original plan won't work, so I decided to just start exclusively pumping now instead of waiting. Well, that's not working either. So it just sucks when things don't work the way you envision it. And formula gets expensive.. we are already going to struggle with daycare costs so this is really going to hurt us. That was a huge reason I wanted to BF/pump.

I have no advice, but wanted to let you know I feel exactly this same way you do. I'm not having supply issues but am having latch issues/pain. I met with a LC Monday and was feeling super positive about things improving, but since then they have not. I'm waiting on my larger flanges that I ordered to arrive today then will attempt some pumping to see if that makes a difference in how I feel, but am strongly leaning towards using formula instead for my own sanity.  I'm 2 1/5 weeks in, and it still takes two people to breastfeed my daughter. My H goes back to work next week and I just don't see how I'm going to be able to do this alone.

I feel like a failure for even considering it, since I have milk. It's just so defeating- I dread every feed and feel like I am not getting to enjoy my baby. I've put an incredible amount of stress on myself over breastfeeding. I feel like I will be judged if I decide to quit, even though my H and my mom assure me no one will judge me. It's so hard. I want what is best for my baby but also for myself. But I feel like these are two different things, so no matter what I decide, it will be the wrong decision for one of us. 

Sorry, not trying to make your post about me. Just wanted to commiserate with you and let you know you are not alone in your feelings. Big hugs to you estrellita. I hope it all works out for you in the best way possible. 

[estrellita]

bbmomma is domperidone expensive? And yes, still taking my prenatal every night.

[bbmomma]

Estrellita, sending a PM.

[estrellita]

Hugs to you too christy082. I think the judging thing is a big part of why this bothers me so much. I feel like if someone sees me mixing a formula bottle, they will think I'm using formula because I was too lazy or selfish to BF (I don't feel that people that chose to FF are lazy or selfish but I know some people think that way). I feel like I need to walk around with a sign that says "don't judge me, I did everything I could". We shouldn't have to feel like that when we are killing ourselves trying to feed our babies the way we want to. It's not our fault it's not working and I wish more people understood!

[azurely]

I don't have any advice that you haven't already gotten, but I wanted to tell you that you're an amazing mom and should be so proud of yourself for all you are doing. Like you said though, don't beat yourself up for something that you can't control. Supplementing with formula is not the end of the world, but I totally get where your frustration is coming from, especially in terms of cost Try to be gentle with yourself though, you are doing the best you can. Hugs!

[persa]

Quick list, haven't had time to read everything thoroughly.

I'll put another plug in for the FB IGT and low milk supply group (no I'm not an admit or anything, just a member)

Get him checked for lip and/or tongue tie by someone who knows what they're talking about

People like the motherlove mother's milk more milk plus special blend that also has goat's Rue in it.

Is your thyroid working ok?

Would you consider taking domperidone to stimulate supply? It can be ordered from overseas and takes a couple weeks to come in but often there's people who will sell you their extras to hold you over. The IGT and low milk supply group also has a buy sell trade page. There's also a Mother's on domperidone group. I take Motilium and I ordered it from inhousepharmacy.vu and even though they say they require a prescription, they shipped it without one.

[bk1]

So many hugs estrellita. I wish we lived closer to each other.

I'm right there with you. I had been pumping to try and up supply but never made anywhere close enough for a full bottle a day. I decided to go to only FF at one month. For me, the stress and anxiety I was putting on myself wasn't worth what I was pumping. I'm so sorry you are having issues and wish you the best of luck. Please don't beat yourself up. You are doing amazing.

[MrsAggie]

((Hugs)) I know the mother love milk plus supplement is supposed to help but I haven't tried that one. My OB suggested Reglan also when my supply plunged at 2 weeks. Luckily I just needed more rest and less stress to recover. It might help get you started though. I know you know this but you're an amazing mother no matter how you feed your child.

[laurenh]

Many hugs, please try not to beat yourself up. I don't have any real advice that hasn't already been mentioned but I do notice a huge drop if I don't eat and drink enough throughout the day, particularly if I'm lacking in fats. Have you tried different size flanges to see if they make a difference? I know my medela pump came with 24s which were way too small and I think the hospital LC told me it's very common for women to need either the 27s or 30s. I did notice an increase in comfort and supply when I moved up to the 30s.