I'm a Title I teacher. For the past week, every classroom teacher I work with has taught nothing in my subject area but how to take the SBAC test. Homework is to go on SBAC websites and do more practice questions. Between this and the actual testing, no new math content will be taught until mid-April. Yes, if I had a child who was in elementary, they would be opted out. I think it is flawed, and wish we would give it more time before jumping in.
I'm a Title I teacher. For the past week, every classroom teacher I work with has taught nothing in my subject area but how to take the SBAC test. Homework is to go on SBAC websites and do more practice questions. Between this and the actual testing, no new math content will be taught until mid-April. Yes, if I had a child who was in elementary, they would be opted out. I think it is flawed, and wish we would give it more time before jumping in.
At least your students are receiving practice. Our kids had one, two-hour practice session, and that was it. I feel they are totally unprepared.
I'm a Title I teacher. For the past week, every classroom teacher I work with has taught nothing in my subject area but how to take the SBAC test. Homework is to go on SBAC websites and do more practice questions. Between this and the actual testing, no new math content will be taught until mid-April. Yes, if I had a child who was in elementary, they would be opted out. I think it is flawed, and wish we would give it more time before jumping in.
At least your students are receiving practice. Our kids had one, two-hour practice session, and that was it. I feel they are totally unprepared.
On the other hand, taking away so much instruction time isn't the answer either. No matter how much practice these kids have, it's a new test (for Washington state at least), score are going to drop, so why waste time prepping this year?
Plying devil's advocate here. Do you think if adults didn't freak out so much over the test, do you think students would be less stressed and less nervous?
This is why I'm so glad we're doing away with the proficiency exams. This graduating class is the last group that has to pass in order to graduate.
I don't know what the district is going to do now, but there has been talk that the teachers will administer an end of year exam that tests what students learned that year. So, basically a final exam. Which is such a "DUH" thing that I don't get why we haven't been doing this for years.
These final exams are the ones that are the standardized tests here in NYC at the high school level. And our students just can't pass them, because they lack the fundamental skills to do well in a regular classroom setting.
That's frustrating to hear.
I can see how that would be the same for us here though. At one school I was interning at, the box with the writing proficiency exams had a sign on it that said "Proficiancy Test." PROFICIANCY. And we're wondering why these kids are taking this test for the fourth time? No.
Plying devil's advocate here. Do you think if adults didn't freak out so much over the test, do you think students would be less stressed and less nervous?
My kid didn't freak out over last year's standardized tests. His issues are not receiving proper accommodations. Perhaps that is the issue with many?
Plying devil's advocate here. Do you think if adults didn't freak out so much over the test, do you think students would be less stressed and less nervous?
No. For the last two years, M took the state-specific standardized test. We didn't mention it at all at home the first year. He came home a basket case the first day, and it built over the week. The second year, we told him not to stress because it's not a measure of him, but of how the teachers are doing. That year, he flipped out because he likes his teacher and was afraid she'd get fired if he didn't do well enough.
Plying devil's advocate here. Do you think if adults didn't freak out so much over the test, do you think students would be less stressed and less nervous?
YES, in a lot of cases. In a meeting last week regarding our upcoming MN standardized testing, my principal showed us some of the methods being used in some schools to prepare for testing. They have pep rallies, prizes, contests; it's a huge.fucking.deal. But those schools also have huge rates of test anxiety.
One thing that I really appreciate about our school is that most of the teachers view this testing as a necessary annoyance but there is very little emphasis given to the tests themselves. There isn't specific teaching to the test, because the things being taught are truly what students need to learn, in the order that suits learning best. Students are told, basically, that they should do their best but that this is just another part of the day. I know these kids, and have for years. There are almost no instances of the kind of stress and anxiety that are being seen in other schools. I think the way the teachers deal with testing has a HUGE impact on that.
Plying devil's advocate here. Do you think if adults didn't freak out so much over the test, do you think students would be less stressed and less nervous?
No. For the last two years, M took the state-specific standardized test. We didn't mention it at all at home the first year. He came home a basket case the first day, and it built over the week. The second year, we told him not to stress because it's not a measure of him, but of how the teachers are doing. That year, he flipped out because he likes his teacher and was afraid she'd get fired if he didn't do well enough.
Of course some kids will be upset no matter what. But keep in mind that how YOU react to testing doesn't necessarily represent the way the other adults in his life, like his teachers, present their views on testing. In general, I absolutely believe that when adults (parents AND teachers) treat the test like a big deal, or put a lot of value or emphasis on it, then it will generate more anxiety in students.
Post by cherryvalance on Mar 5, 2015 5:41:31 GMT -5
I think in general, yes, the way adults behave does dictate how kids will react, to a certain degree. Of course there are always kids who have major anxiety regardless, just as there are always kids who don't get nervous at all.
In our case, the PARCC has been a different animal all around and I think it's been mainly external adults freaking kids out. The biggest anxiety-producing aspect for my kids, especially my highest level students, is that there are no answers. We don't know how the test will be used and, until last week, we didn't know if it would be a graduation requirement. My kids aren't the ones to go into a test and see how it goes.
We also have a large population of Korean American students and for most of their families, it's traditional and cultural to value test scores and performance. Since we haven't even had decent practice materials, it's nerve-wracking for them because they're convinced they will be failures.
My inclusion students have been hearing online/tv how difficult the test was supposed to be and most immediately said they gave up. No matter what I say or what success they're having in class, they're convinced they just can't do it. It wasn't until they announced that the test wouldn't count that most even considered taking it.
Finally, our BOE and administration have dictated that we implement a ton of prep time for the test. We have to use Study Island four times a month for 43 minutes apiece (this is how fucking regimented they've become) and have to list any PARCC websites we visit in class in a separate log. We also had to do November and February benchmarking. I've lost countless hours of instructional time (which actually might prepare them for the higher level reading passages) and prep time in creating these practice assessments. So my kids never have time off from PARCC. It's just nonstop in their world.
At least your students are receiving practice. Our kids had one, two-hour practice session, and that was it. I feel they are totally unprepared.
On the other hand, taking away so much instruction time isn't the answer either. No matter how much practice these kids have, it's a new test (for Washington state at least), score are going to drop, so why waste time prepping this year?
I agree with both of these points. I am glad they won't go into the test blindly, but to utilize every single math block for a two week period (so, ten, one-hour class periods) and then spend an additional several weeks testing, we lose too much instructional time. By the time classroom teachers get back into the regular routine, it will be April break and we will have backslid again. I think it's really a no-win situation, and I don't think the benefits outweigh the losses.
No. For the last two years, M took the state-specific standardized test. We didn't mention it at all at home the first year. He came home a basket case the first day, and it built over the week. The second year, we told him not to stress because it's not a measure of him, but of how the teachers are doing. That year, he flipped out because he likes his teacher and was afraid she'd get fired if he didn't do well enough.
Of course some kids will be upset no matter what. But keep in mind that how YOU react to testing doesn't necessarily represent the way the other adults in his life, like his teachers, present their views on testing. In general, I absolutely believe that when adults (parents AND teachers) treat the test like a big deal, or put a lot of value or emphasis on it, then it will generate more anxiety in students.
I really don't think it's the adults M's life. It's the other kids in good school. We live in an area full of Indian and East-Asian families, who culturally put a really high value on education. I don't know what is said in most their homes, but many of the kids talk about these tests as of they are an indicator of their value. They love to compete and through or their scores throughout the year to shut down arguments. ("Yeah, well, he only got x on his NJASK!")
It's past of the culture here, for sure, but the pressure's not coming from adults... which is probably why he's afraid opting-out will make him look stupid to his friends.
There isn't specific teaching to the test, because the things being taught are truly what students need to learn, in the order that suits learning best. Students are told, basically, that they should do their best but that this is just another part of the day.
But, in a lot of instances, the Common Core curriculum is not developmentally appropriate. Or maybe I'm confusing it with the methods to teach CC, like Singapore Math. Kids are expected to figure out the logic in may and to explain it before they are developmentally ready to do that kind of thinking or have the full vocabulary to explain it.
In our school, kids are also told to do their best, but that doesn't mean they don't feel the pressure anyway. Kids are very adept at picking up the vibes around them, and, add I said above, the pressure isn't always coming directly from the adults.
And this is all incredibly magnified when you factor in children with learning disabilities who are required, by the way schools enforce the No Child Left Behind Act, to work on the same material at the same time as other children, whether they are ready for that lesson or not. It creates a school environment in which they feel they are constantly struggling and failing, rather than one that teaches to their level and they could have success in learning. And then, for the final blow, these kids are stepped of whatever accommodations they are typically allowed and are asked to sit for a multi-day, test in a format many of them have very little experience with.
We live in an area full of Indian and East-Asian families, who culturally put a really high value on education. I don't know what is said in most their homes, but many of the kids talk about these tests as of they are an indicator of their value. They love to compete and through or their scores throughout the year to shut down arguments. ("Yeah, well, he only got x on his NJASK!").
This is so, so true in my district. With the HSPA, it was NBD since it was a basic skills test, but incoming freshman always referred to ASK scores and older kids are obsessed with SAT scores. It's not uncommon to hear, "I can't believe he gets A's with his SAT score." They really are so test-oriented.
Plying devil's advocate here. Do you think if adults didn't freak out so much over the test, do you think students would be less stressed and less nervous?
No. For the last two years, M took the state-specific standardized test. We didn't mention it at all at home the first year. He came home a basket case the first day, and it built over the week. The second year, we told him not to stress because it's not a measure of him, but of how the teachers are doing. That year, he flipped out because he likes his teacher and was afraid she'd get fired if he didn't do well enough.
In later posts you say that the other adults aren't freaking the kids out, but the bolded is completely inappropriate in my opinion. I would never say that to students, and I teach older kids (middle school). I can't imagine saying something like this to elementary students. I mean, I don't know what exactly was said, but if you weren't talking about it, some other adult mentioned that these test affect the teacher's job.
The schools themselves here put a lot of pressure on the kids to do well. So much is tied to these test scores-from funding for the school, to teacher pay. So, it is drilled into their heads that if they do not do well, they will fail. In 3rd grade, if you don't pass, you don't go to 4th grade. In high school, if you don't pass one of the tests, you don't graduate until you do.
This is the first year they are doing the writing/essay test on computers and my daughter was a nervous wreck. If it weren't for her being in the Finance Academy and having to take a typing course, she would be even more nervous because kids here aren't taught how to type quickly. Can you imagine how long it will take some of them to finish their tests?
LetmetellYOU, my 9th grader takes FSA today. I gave him the option of opting out and he opted to take the test, he has always done well on FCAT, he just looks at these test like any other test he has to take, except for EOC's, but that's a different story for a different day.
Anyway, if my child for some reason does not do well on this BULLSHIT test and they want to take him out of his AP class to put him in remedial classes.
There will be a big fat BOOM happening over here on the Space Coast and it will not be from a rocket going up.
There isn't specific teaching to the test, because the things being taught are truly what students need to learn, in the order that suits learning best. Students are told, basically, that they should do their best but that this is just another part of the day.
But, in a lot of instances, the Common Core curriculum is not developmentally appropriate. Or maybe I'm confusing it with the methods to teach CC, like Singapore Math. Kids are expected to figure out the logic in may and to explain it before they are developmentally ready to do that kind of thinking or have the full vocabulary to explain it.
In our school, kids are also told to do their best, but that doesn't mean they don't feel the pressure anyway. Kids are very adept at picking up the vibes around them, and, add I said above, the pressure isn't always coming directly from the adults.
And this is all incredibly magnified when you factor in children with learning disabilities who are required, by the way schools enforce the No Child Left Behind Act, to work on the same material at the same time as other children, whether they are ready for that lesson or not. It creates a school environment in which they feel they are constantly struggling and failing, rather than one that teaches to their level and they could have success in learning. And then, for the final blow, these kids are stepped of whatever accommodations they are typically allowed and are asked to sit for a multi-day, test in a format many of them have very little experience with.
I think maybe you're taking my comments a bit out of context. I understand testing, because as I mentioned before, I am the assessment coordinator at my school for my district. Preparing and giving these test is my job, and that includes proctoring tests to kids with IEPs and 504 plans.
I wasn't saying that all kids in all schools wont have test anxiety if the adults aren't pushing it. Someone asked about whether adult reactions played a role in student anxiety. It absolutely can, and I was specifically talking about what we do at our school (which does not use common core). It's a public Montessori, so already a different vibe than traditional schools. It's also elementary, so very different from the testing atmosphere in a HS.
FTR I'm agreeing with you. I dont like them, I am likely going to opt my own kids out, and I think they cause undue stress and anxiety, even under the best conditions.
But, in a lot of instances, the Common Core curriculum is not developmentally appropriate. Or maybe I'm confusing it with the methods to teach CC, like Singapore Math. Kids are expected to figure out the logic in may and to explain it before they are developmentally ready to do that kind of thinking or have the full vocabulary to explain it.
In our school, kids are also told to do their best, but that doesn't mean they don't feel the pressure anyway. Kids are very adept at picking up the vibes around them, and, add I said above, the pressure isn't always coming directly from the adults.
And this is all incredibly magnified when you factor in children with learning disabilities who are required, by the way schools enforce the No Child Left Behind Act, to work on the same material at the same time as other children, whether they are ready for that lesson or not. It creates a school environment in which they feel they are constantly struggling and failing, rather than one that teaches to their level and they could have success in learning. And then, for the final blow, these kids are stepped of whatever accommodations they are typically allowed and are asked to sit for a multi-day, test in a format many of them have very little experience with.
I think maybe you're taking my comments a bit out of context. I understand testing, because as I mentioned before, I am the assessment coordinator at my school for my district. Preparing and giving these test is my job, and that includes proctoring tests to kids with IEPs and 504 plans.
I wasn't saying that all kids in all schools wont have test anxiety if the adults aren't pushing it. Someone asked about whether adult reactions played a role in student anxiety. It absolutely can, and I was specifically talking about what we do at our school (which does not use common core). It's a public Montessori, so already a different vibe than traditional schools. It's also elementary, so very different from the testing atmosphere in a HS.
FTR I'm agreeing with you. I dont like them, I am likely going to opt my own kids out, and I think they cause undue stress and anxiety, even under the best conditions.
I didn't realize that your school was a Montessori school. I thought you were saying that the standard school program (of Common Core) was appropriately teaching kids what they needed when they were ready to learn it, and that was what I was responding to. Thanks for clarifying.
No. For the last two years, M took the state-specific standardized test. We didn't mention it at all at home the first year. He came home a basket case the first day, and it built over the week. The second year, we told him not to stress because it's not a measure of him, but of how the teachers are doing. That year, he flipped out because he likes his teacher and was afraid she'd get fired if he didn't do well enough.
In later posts you say that the other adults aren't freaking the kids out, but the bolded is completely inappropriate in my opinion. I would never say that to students, and I teach older kids (middle school). I can't imagine saying something like this to elementary students. I mean, I don't know what exactly was said, but if you weren't talking about it, some other adult mentioned that these test affect the teacher's job.
No, am adult at the school didn't tell him that; after he was so stressed the first year, we told him not to sorry about the test at all the second year. We explained that the scores wouldn't be used in relation to him (they aren't used for placement or anything else), but that they are used by the schools to see how the teachers are doing. We never said it was in relation to them keeping their jobs or anything like that (and it wasn't being used to disqualify teachers). That was something he came up with all on his own.
LetmetellYOU, my 9th grader takes FSA today. I gave him the option of opting out and he opted to take the test, he has always done well on FCAT, he just looks at these test like any other test he has to take, except for EOC's, but that's a different story for a different day.
Anyway, if my child for some reason does not do well on this BULLSHIT test and they want to take him out of his AP class to put him in remedial classes.
There will be a big fat BOOM happening over here on the Space Coast and it will not be from a rocket going up.
You are just south of me.
I would have given my 9th grader the option to not take it, but it wasn't made clear what would happen to students who chose not to take it. Is it wrong of me to hope that everyone fails just so the state has no choice but to maybe see that these tests don't really reflect a child's intelligence and are doing more harm than good? I guess I just wonder what it will take for the higher ups to see that something needs to change.
In later posts you say that the other adults aren't freaking the kids out, but the bolded is completely inappropriate in my opinion. I would never say that to students, and I teach older kids (middle school). I can't imagine saying something like this to elementary students. I mean, I don't know what exactly was said, but if you weren't talking about it, some other adult mentioned that these test affect the teacher's job.
No, am adult at the school didn't tell him that; after he was so stressed the first year, we told him not to sorry about the test at all the second year. We explained that the scores wouldn't be used in relation to him (they aren't used for placement or anything else), but that they are used by the schools to see how the teachers are doing. We never said it was in relation to them keeping their jobs or anything like that (and it wasn't being used to disqualify teachers). That was something he came up with all on his own.
Ok, but you're being a bit obtuse here when you say that it's not the adults and this is all self imposed. For the students for whom testing is very important culturally, it's because their parents and grandparents put huge importance on it. And even though you didnt tell your son that his teacher could lose her job or anything like that, you told him that HIS test score would assess how well his TEACHER is doing. So, yeah, of course it makes sense that his mind jumped to "If I dont do well, my teacher will get in trouble." He didnt come up with that all on his own, that came from you, intentional or not (and of course it was not).
In later posts you say that the other adults aren't freaking the kids out, but the bolded is completely inappropriate in my opinion. I would never say that to students, and I teach older kids (middle school). I can't imagine saying something like this to elementary students. I mean, I don't know what exactly was said, but if you weren't talking about it, some other adult mentioned that these test affect the teacher's job.
No, am adult at the school didn't tell him that; after he was so stressed the first year, we told him not to sorry about the test at all the second year. We explained that the scores wouldn't be used in relation to him (they aren't used for placement or anything else), but that they are used by the schools to see how the teachers are doing. We never said it was in relation to them keeping their jobs or anything like that (and it wasn't being used to disqualify teachers). That was something he came up with all on his own.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I forgot you mentioned before that you tried to console him with the teacher information. That said, I do think that even if the teachers arent saying anything outright, there is definitely a palpable stress among adults (even though they don't mean to) in the schools, some more obvious than others. Kids can certainly feel the stress both of the days leading up to these tests as well as the seriousness of the atmosphere on test day.
Obviously all kids are different - some would stress out because of the test even if the conditions were much more relaxed, but I do think joenali has a great point about the adults making it worse for kids, even though we, of course, don't want or mean to.
No, am adult at the school didn't tell him that; after he was so stressed the first year, we told him not to sorry about the test at all the second year. We explained that the scores wouldn't be used in relation to him (they aren't used for placement or anything else), but that they are used by the schools to see how the teachers are doing. We never said it was in relation to them keeping their jobs or anything like that (and it wasn't being used to disqualify teachers). That was something he came up with all on his own.
Ok, but you're being a bit obtuse here when you say that it's not the adults and this is all self imposed. For the students for whom testing is very important culturally, it's because their parents and grandparents put huge importance on it. And even though you didnt tell your son that his teacher could lose her job or anything like that, you told him that HIS test score would assess how well his TEACHER is doing. So, yeah, of course it makes sense that his mind jumped to "If I dont do well, my teacher will get in trouble." He didnt come up with that all on his own, that came from you, intentional or not (and of course it was not).
Yes, and we realized our mistake in what we told him after the fact. (M doesn't think abstractly at all and still struggles sometime with cause and effect thinking. To be honest, we were shocked he drew that conclusion.)
As for the other students, though, in drawing a line between their fascination with test scores and their parents because I've never heard the parents talk about it. The kids do, but I think the parents just value education strongly, not specifically the standardized test scores. I honestly don't know if the focus on the scores cones from them or not.
Ok, but you're being a bit obtuse here when you say that it's not the adults and this is all self imposed. For the students for whom testing is very important culturally, it's because their parents and grandparents put huge importance on it. And even though you didnt tell your son that his teacher could lose her job or anything like that, you told him that HIS test score would assess how well his TEACHER is doing. So, yeah, of course it makes sense that his mind jumped to "If I dont do well, my teacher will get in trouble." He didnt come up with that all on his own, that came from you, intentional or not (and of course it was not).
Yes, and we realized our mistake in what we told him after the fact. (M doesn't think abstractly at all and still struggles sometime with cause and effect thinking. To be honest, we were shocked he drew that conclusion.)
As for the other students, though, in drawing a line between their fascination with test scores and their parents because I've never heard the parents talk about it. The kids do, but I think the parents just value education strongly, not specifically the standardized test scores. I honestly don't know if the focus on the scores cones from them or not.
Yes, and we realized our mistake in what we told him after the fact. (M doesn't think abstractly at all and still struggles sometime with cause and effect thinking. To be honest, we were shocked he drew that conclusion.)
As for the other students, though, in drawing a line between their fascination with test scores and their parents because I've never heard the parents talk about it. The kids do, but I think the parents just value education strongly, not specifically the standardized test scores. I honestly don't know if the focus on the scores cones from them or not.
Obtuse.
Well, I was enjoying our conversation and gained a lot from your posts, up until this one.
Isn't it possible that the kids focus on scores because they feel it is a sign of their worth? Parents can culturally put a lot of emphasis on education without demanding high test scores. We do that in out family, for sure. We work with the kids on homework, study with them, emphasize learning what they can and trying their best...but when it comes to tests, we always tell them we don't care how they do. We know before the test if they've tried their best, and that's all that matters.