I think it may be an excuse to get a huge group together to share drugs and pretend to be cool and alternative before going back to perfectly mainstream lives. #GOML
I can't say I get it - I thought it was drug-based also. A gathering of people who do drugs in a somewhat safe environment and build artsy stuff in the desert. The people I know who go, are not "mainstream" in their lives much. They were costumes to lots of parties - have strange jobs and are WAY more rave-like than hipster at all. Or they are hippies who wished they hadn't grown up in the West and instead were at Woodstock, but their too young for that, so they go to burning man to connect to people. I actually think it's just a big rave-like party with some hippie traits, except now people bring their kids and it looks like it has better pricing structure than the new Dead/Phish show.
ETA: Wait, this Mashable article says I'm wrong. The idea that it's wayward hippies and ravers hasn't really ever been true. I guess it's innovative, Silicon-valley types who are blowing off some creative steam and still using their super-good business/organizational skills. It even is a reason that some big-wig at Google was hired...he was the only candidate who routinely went to Burning Man. Hmmm... mashable.com/2014/08/22/burning-man-2014/
I can't say I get it - I thought it was drug-based also. A gathering of people who do drugs in a somewhat safe environment and build artsy stuff in the desert. The people I know who go, are not "mainstream" in their lives much. They were costumes to lots of parties - have strange jobs and are WAY more rave-like than hipster at all. Or they are hippies who wished they hadn't grown up in the West and instead were at Woodstock, but their too young for that, so they go to burning man to connect to people. I actually think it's just a big rave-like party with some hippie traits, except now people bring their kids and it looks like it has better pricing structure than the new Dead/Phish show.
ETA: Wait, this Mashable article says I'm wrong. The idea that it's wayward hippies and ravers hasn't really ever been true. I guess it's innovative, Silicon-valley types who are blowing off some creative steam and still using their super-good business/organizational skills. It even is a reason that some big-wig at Google was hired...he was the only candidate who routinely went to Burning Man. Hmmm... mashable.com/2014/08/22/burning-man-2014/
Considering the only innovative Silicone-valley type that I know (hugely successful college friend - sold his startup for $$$) is also a HUUUUUUUUUUGE phish fan and was into alternate states of being - I feel like there is a decent amount of overlap between those two categories that is being discounted. Think the SXSW crowd, but a tick or three weirder.
Also my brother and his friends are burners. I'll try to give some random demographics for those who are curious, but he's not terribly easy to categorize either. And while he feels right at home in those places, I have no idea if they are a representative sample. Definitely more raver than hippie, but there is some of each for sure. Glow sticks AND drum circles. Lots of altered states, but also has kids and a house and a blue collar job and is a responsible normal human in his day to day life. Very into community - his friends are all super tight and basically consider themselves a family. The group is split between tech type jobs, a handful of creatives (tattoo artist, photographer, writer) and then the rest are blue collar who have artsy hobbies. Most of them are above average intelligence. At least started college, even if they didn't manage to graduate. (a lot of these people were sorta late bloomers - messy messes in their 20's and then grew up) Lots of overlap with the Maker culture/movement/whatever too. Most of them identify as some sort of non-major western religion - either various flavors of pagan, Buddhist, etc. And a fair handful of poly and other non-typical relationship structures.
So basically super counter-culture, but not like dirty hippies who live in vans. Counter-culture types who operate successfully within the framework of real life - and thus have money to attend burns and build giant art pieces in the desert.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
My husband went to burning man in... 1997? He and his grad school roommate (the guy who introduced us). They were in this tiny town in rural CA stopping for gas on their way back and saw a paper that said Princess Diana had died. Our mutual friend was like, "What kind of trashy tabloids does this gas station carry? Let's get back to civilization!"
Also, they were told, "Man, you have to go find the opera! It's so cool!" So they walked around looking for this "opera," which I don't think they ever did find. In the dark. In the middle of the desert. Bumping into each other and other things. Especially shitty "art installations." And I feel like someone burned the man early that year, maybe even before they go there, which happens a lot and defeats the ENTIRE PURPOSE of being there.
Our mutual friend has done his fair share of drugs in his life, and my husband is an eagle scout and experienced camper, but both will tell you there's really no reason to go.
I'm also fairly certain that at least 45% of all attendees of Burning Man are marginally homeless/low income. Like it's the kind of shit Kayla and Checkers would be into. Imagine several hundred people like Kayla and Checkers.
Also my brother and his friends are burners. I'll try to give some random demographics for those who are curious, but he's not terribly easy to categorize either. And while he feels right at home in those places, I have no idea if they are a representative sample. Definitely more raver than hippie, but there is some of each for sure. Glow sticks AND drum circles. Lots of altered states, but also has kids and a house and a blue collar job and is a responsible normal human in his day to day life. Very into community - his friends are all super tight and basically consider themselves a family. The group is split between tech type jobs, a handful of creatives (tattoo artist, photographer, writer) and then the rest are blue collar who have artsy hobbies. Most of them are above average intelligence. At least started college, even if they didn't manage to graduate. (a lot of these people were sorta late bloomers - messy messes in their 20's and then grew up) Lots of overlap with the Maker culture/movement/whatever too. Most of them identify as some sort of non-major western religion - either various flavors of pagan, Buddhist, etc. And a fair handful of poly and other non-typical relationship structures.
So basically super counter-culture, but not like dirty hippies who live in vans. Counter-culture types who operate successfully within the framework of real life - and thus have money to attend burns and build giant art pieces in the desert.
Yeah, I feel like you either need a lot of disposable income to spend a few weeks in the desert, or like absolutely 0 responsibilities. Two ends of the spectrum.
Post by tacosforlife on Mar 6, 2015 13:55:16 GMT -5
A friend of mine went a year or 2 ago and had talked about how it was soooooo amazing and life changing. I just assume she scores really, really good drugs.
I just don't get it. A bunch of rich people in the middle of nowhere pretending to not be rich and claiming they care about the environment while also setting a bunch of unnecessary fires? What the shit now?
And I don't know what the normal ticket price is, but is that really what keeps people from being able to afford to go? I assumed it was more the cost of transportation and supplies and lost wages because most people can't just ditch work for a week to go get high in the desert.
It all just seems so fucking weird. Gimme some bourbon in a basement bar with a good jukebox, and I'll show you a life changing night.
It's basically my worst nightmare come true. A combination of Kaylas and Checkers', as a PP mentioned, and douchey rich people pretending to be like Kayla and Checkers for a few days? No.thank.you.
A friend of mine went a year or 2 ago and had talked about how it was soooooo amazing and life changing. I just assume she scores really, really good drugs.
I just don't get it. A bunch of rich people in the middle of nowhere pretending to not be rich and claiming they care about the environment while also setting a bunch of unnecessary fires? What the shit now?
And I don't know what the normal ticket price is, but is that really what keeps people from being able to afford to go? I assumed it was more the cost of transportation and supplies and lost wages because most people can't just ditch work for a week to go get high in the desert.
It all just seems so fucking weird. Gimme some bourbon in a basement bar with a good jukebox, and I'll show you a life changing night.
I'm just LOLing because a bunch of my friends were planning on going to Burning Man this year and were estimating costs to be about $5k a person. In theory it's all "hey let's do drugs in the dessert" but the amount of equipment and logistics to do it right really add up. They were going to rent an RV in California and buy bicycles and something about a freestanding ventilation system. I was tired just from reading about it. Do not subsidize this nonsense. There are way cheaper ways to be in an eclectic community.
It's basically my worst nightmare come true. A combination of Kaylas and Checkers', as a PP mentioned, and douchey rich people pretending to be like Kayla and Checkers for a few days? No.thank.you.
That combined with camping, and as wawa said, dust and dirt EVERYWHERE. I need a clean hotel. With a shower and a bar. Not a tent in the desert.
There aren't enough drugs to make camping sound like fun.
I hate camping so hard. The one time a year my husband tricks me into camping, we have a king sized air mattress AND run electricity in from a nearby building or generator so I can run electronics.
If we had this tent, I would be more willing to camp (again, as long as I can have my electricity. I can't sleep without a fan. #highmaintenance)
I'm just LOLing because a bunch of my friends were planning on going to Burning Man this year and were estimating costs to be about $5k a person. In theory it's all "hey let's do drugs in the dessert" but the amount of equipment and logistics to do it right really add up. They were going to rent an RV in California and buy bicycles and something about a freestanding ventilation system. I was tired just from reading about it. Do not subsidize this nonsense. There are way cheaper ways to be in an eclectic community.
ZOMG. My husband and I could drop $5k on Hawaii or London or something. Or pretty much any place in the world that would make a better vacation than the CA/NV desert.
Post by BlondeSpiders on Mar 6, 2015 14:54:19 GMT -5
Hmmmm. ^o)
ACTUAL, REAL BURNER HERE.
I am not a druggie. I am not a hippie. Am I interested in alternative cultures? Sure, that's evidenced by my community and circle of friends.
Look, Burning Man is a "city" of 60,000+ people in any given year. Could you find a large percentage of drug users in any city that size? Of course. Does that mean every person who lives in that city is a druggie?
BM is a lot of things to a lot of people. For a certain percentage, yes it is an opportunity to take a lot of drugs and run around being crazy. To some, it's a great way to create HUUUUUGE art and connect with other artists. I've seen some of the most unbelievable works of art, camp structures that I couldnt see anywhere else. To some it's a way to create body positivity leave your shame at home, while dancing around naked or half naked. To others it's a place to be around extremely creative and expressive, friendly people. It's a way to experience radical self reliance. Everything you need to camp, you bring in yourself, you can't buy anything buy coffee drinks and ice. This is my favorite part: it's a way to share yourself with others, through the act of gifting. I made cootie catchers to give out and they were a big hit. Some gift by having camps that serve all kinds of goodies, from cocktails to ice cream or watermelon, or anything you bring from the outside. All that's required to enter these camps is your own cup and a smile. Where else on earth can you get this? People give of themselves here, for not gain or ulterior motive. Just because they have something to share.
Would you believe I showered every day, the last time I went? Our camp created a fantastic, fully private outdoor solar shower. Some prefer a more private RV, and that's ok too. We may do that on our next trip.
Would you believe there are multiple daily AA/NA meetings? Not everyone is there to get high, clearly.
Would you believe there are scheduled activities to do, every hour of every day? Not arranged by BM, but campers who create these things for other Burners. Jewelry making, mani/pedis, trick out your bike, almost anything you could think of.
I will admit, it's changed in the last 5 years. The new breed of rich tech assholes has changed Burning Man, and not for the better. I still believe in the core principles, so that's why I plan to keep going. I'm not ashamed to admit, it DID change me. I came home a different person. I felt happier, and more empathetic to the human condition. I wanted to bring that feeling of radical inclusion self expression to my everyday life. It's a little hard to understand unless you've been there.
But just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad.
I'll just leave this here:
The 10 Principles of Burning Man
Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.
Gifting
Burning Man is devoted to acts of gift giving. The value of a gift is unconditional. Gifting does not contemplate a return or an exchange for something of equal value.
Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.
Radical Self-reliance
Burning Man encourages the individual to discover, exercise and rely on his or her inner resources.
Radical Self-expression
Radical self-expression arises from the unique gifts of the individual. No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content. It is offered as a gift to others. In this spirit, the giver should respect the rights and liberties of the recipient.
Communal Effort
Our community values creative cooperation and collaboration. We strive to produce, promote and protect social networks, public spaces, works of art, and methods of communication that support such interaction.
Civic Responsibility
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.
Leaving No Trace
Our community respects the environment. We are committed to leaving no physical trace of our activities wherever we gather. We clean up after ourselves and endeavor, whenever possible, to leave such places in a better state than when we found them.
Participation
Our community is committed to a radically participatory ethic. We believe that transformative change, whether in the individual or in society, can occur only through the medium of deeply personal participation. We achieve being through doing. Everyone is invited to work. Everyone is invited to play. We make the world real through actions that open the heart.
Immediacy
Immediate experience is, in many ways, the most important touchstone of value in our culture. We seek to overcome barriers that stand between us and a recognition of our inner selves, the reality of those around us, participation in society, and contact with a natural world exceeding human powers. No idea can substitute for this experience.
My good friend, who is very straight laced and has never touched a drug in her life, went last year. I almost fell out of my chair when I saw that she was there. She had a blast, so who knows?
I have friends who have done Burning Man... like wawa said, kind of the 'alternative folk who live in the real world' types.
There have been times in my life when I would have LOVED to do it, but it was way way way out of my financial reach. But, not so much anymore.
...I say this, though, while planning a trip to this summer's Oregon Country Fair (link to GIS, which probably has some NWFW images)... kind of the hippie-dippie family-friendly tie-dyed version of Burning Man.... so, I get it, I totally get it... but Burning Man seems to have become something else, something I don't really get...
I am not a druggie. I am not a hippie. Am I interested in alternative cultures? Sure, that's evidenced by my community and circle of friends.
Look, Burning Man is a "city" of 60,000+ people in any given year. Could you find a large percentage of drug users in any city that size? Of course. Does that mean every person who lives in that city is a druggie?
BM is a lot of things to a lot of people. For a certain percentage, yes it is an opportunity to take a lot of drugs and run around being crazy. To some, it's a great way to create HUUUUUGE art and connect with other artists. I've seen some of the most unbelievable works of art, camp structures that I couldnt see anywhere else. To some it's a way to create body positivity leave your shame at home, while dancing around naked or half naked. To others it's a place to be around extremely creative and expressive, friendly people. It's a way to experience radical self reliance. Everything you need to camp, you bring in yourself, you can't buy anything buy coffee drinks and ice. This is my favorite part: it's a way to share yourself with others, through the act of gifting. I made cootie catchers to give out and they were a big hit. Some gift by having camps that serve all kinds of goodies, from cocktails to ice cream or watermelon, or anything you bring from the outside. All that's required to enter these camps is your own cup and a smile. Where else on earth can you get this? People give of themselves here, for not gain or ulterior motive. Just because they have something to share.
Would you believe I showered every day, the last time I went? Our camp created a fantastic, fully private outdoor solar shower. Some prefer a more private RV, and that's ok too. We may do that on our next trip.
Would you believe there are multiple daily AA/NA meetings? Not everyone is there to get high, clearly.
Would you believe there are scheduled activities to do, every hour of every day? Not arranged by BM, but campers who create these things for other Burners. Jewelry making, mani/pedis, trick out your bike, almost anything you could think of.
I will admit, it's changed in the last 5 years. The new breed of rich tech assholes has changed Burning Man, and not for the better. I still believe in the core principles, so that's why I plan to keep going. I'm not ashamed to admit, it DID change me. I came home a different person. I felt happier, and more empathetic to the human condition. I wanted to bring that feeling of radical inclusion self expression to my everyday life. It's a little hard to understand unless you've been there.
But just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad.
I'll just leave this here:
The 10 Principles of Burning Man
Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.
Gifting
Burning Man is devoted to acts of gift giving. The value of a gift is unconditional. Gifting does not contemplate a return or an exchange for something of equal value.
Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.
Radical Self-reliance
Burning Man encourages the individual to discover, exercise and rely on his or her inner resources.
Radical Self-expression
Radical self-expression arises from the unique gifts of the individual. No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content. It is offered as a gift to others. In this spirit, the giver should respect the rights and liberties of the recipient.
Communal Effort
Our community values creative cooperation and collaboration. We strive to produce, promote and protect social networks, public spaces, works of art, and methods of communication that support such interaction.
Civic Responsibility
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.
Leaving No Trace
Our community respects the environment. We are committed to leaving no physical trace of our activities wherever we gather. We clean up after ourselves and endeavor, whenever possible, to leave such places in a better state than when we found them.
Participation
Our community is committed to a radically participatory ethic. We believe that transformative change, whether in the individual or in society, can occur only through the medium of deeply personal participation. We achieve being through doing. Everyone is invited to work. Everyone is invited to play. We make the world real through actions that open the heart.
Immediacy
Immediate experience is, in many ways, the most important touchstone of value in our culture. We seek to overcome barriers that stand between us and a recognition of our inner selves, the reality of those around us, participation in society, and contact with a natural world exceeding human powers. No idea can substitute for this experience.
I didn't say it was bad. It is bad for me. The tenets you just posted are the kinds of things and ideas that make me want to pull my hair out.
Post by dixienormous on Mar 6, 2015 15:24:29 GMT -5
BlondeSpiders - real burner here too. Been going since 2009 and definitely have seen the change. I even went when pregnant with my oldest. Not going this year (sending H alone) because we'll have a 4 month old at the time of the Burn.
To truly describe Burning Man is like trying to describe the color blue to someone who has been blind their whole life. It's something you need to experience to understand fully. For every Burner it's something different. It's spiritual, it's a party, it's a chance to do nothing but see awesome art or create it. It's a chance to be free of judgement. It's a chance to create the event that you want it to be by your participation.
Yes, there are people who are only there for the party scene. But there are thousands of people who are there for everything else that is offered.
The summer after my dad died, I went to one of the Jewish camps so that I could say Kaddish for him with a congregation. I sob and leave notes and thoughts at The Temple. I take in the truly incredible art that people create. I enjoy the events and lectures that different camps put on. I enjoy being a part of a community that disappears without a trace after a week.
It's not for everyone. For those of us who it *is* for, it is life changing.
Post by tacosforlife on Mar 6, 2015 15:33:29 GMT -5
I guess I don't see radical inclusion in something that clearly requires a significant amount of effort and resources to attend. And I don't see leave no trace as 60,000 people using up energy to get to the desert and using resources to create camps and showers and burning a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't need to be burned. And come on. I am LOL-ing the fuck out of being able to buy nothing but coffee drinks. How is that radical self reliance? Bring your own damn coffee and brew it the way people did thousands of years ago.
I mean, if people enjoy it, great, go for it. But I have no doubt that people could create inclusive communities of art without Burning Man.
Which brings me back to my original point - I don't think it's the admission price that is keeping anybody from going. The idea that a $190 ticket plus the travel costs, supplies, and time off work is "low income" is so patently absurd.