Your Kids Are Ruining Your Retirement

[Scout'sHonor]

Mar 6, 2015 11:08:57 GMT -5 leeba25 said:

Mar 6, 2015 10:35:59 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

My mother has nothing saved for retirement and she is in her early 60s. She can barely keep a roof over her head half the time, retirement has always been on the back burner. I have no idea what she is going to do. She wants to move closer to me and I am terrified. There is a lot of history that I will spare you from but this could end very badly. 

Me, you, and omgzombies should start a support board to commiserate about this crap. My mom & I don't get along either, and her living with us would be awful, for so many reasons. It would be easier to say "oh sure come live with us!!" if we had a good history and a good relationship. 

I will join this too.  We could never have a parent live with us, so we're like "well, let's just try to keep them off the street."

[simpsongal]

My folks got help from their folks, so they want to do the same but they're not really in a position.

They recently cosigned my brother's giant mortgage....ugh.

[Vespasia]

Mar 6, 2015 11:08:57 GMT -5 leeba25 said:

Mar 6, 2015 10:35:59 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

My mother has nothing saved for retirement and she is in her early 60s. She can barely keep a roof over her head half the time, retirement has always been on the back burner. I have no idea what she is going to do. She wants to move closer to me and I am terrified. There is a lot of history that I will spare you from but this could end very badly. 

Me, you, and omgzombies should start a support board to commiserate about this crap. My mom & I don't get along either, and her living with us would be awful, for so many reasons. It would be easier to say "oh sure come live with us!!" if we had a good history and a good relationship. 

We have a good relationship (now) but that is made possible by the physical distance. I'd be ok with her living with us short term if she would use that opportunity to get her shit straight but the chances of that happening are nil. She has ruined many previous friendships and family relationships by staying with people in the past and I know that would happen with us too. I'm also not willing to risk my relationship with MH. 

Unfortunately she also can't take criticism so she would be shocked and offended if I said this to her. 

We went from a 1 bedroom apartment to a 3 bedroom house recently and we are seriously regretting it!

ETA: Scout'sHonor and leeba25 I liked out of solidarity, not because I am happy you have crazy parents too. 

[meshaliuknits]

My ILs will probably buy us groceries this weekend. Not because we need them to, but because apparently not allowing your children to pay for their own stuff is apparently genetic. You should see FIL and his father argue over who pays for dinner.

I'm perfectly happy paying for my own stuff. We're employed. You're retired. Keep your money so you don't have to live with me.

[Deleted]

My parents (divorced 5 years ago) still help me out from time to time. But I'm still a student and clearly I'm not just a bum sleeping on the couch with no goals. They do mostly help me with non necessities and random unexpected bills. However, they always tell me to come to them if I need anything and I know they both have retirement savings under control. Whenever my mom comes to visit she'll ask me if I want to go to the store to get groceries or toiletries.

I hope that one day I can pay it forward to my hypothetical kids.

[IIOY]

Mar 6, 2015 11:28:55 GMT -5 @choco said:

Anyway, I can't wrap my head around sending funds to my adult child so s/he can live in a trendy neighborhood in VHCOL area and work a $30K job. These parents set the wrong expectations LONG before these kids graduated college and they are obviously still paying for those mistakes. DH's parents paid for college but they definitely made it known he was expected to be on his own the moment he graduated. You have to start from a very early age IMO.

I just read this today, which dovetails with what you are saying here, except apparently we will be the problem parents in 30 years. LOL

I love your siggy, BTW!

[pt716]

Mar 6, 2015 11:43:16 GMT -5 @wandering said:

I hope that one day I can pay it forward to my hypothetical kids.

This is my parent thought too. My grandfather helped them when they were starting out, now they are helping us, and we will then help our kids, etc.

[shauni27]

I was just talking about this the other day. I love my parents and we grew up very fortunate, to the point that I thought we were kind of rich, because we always went on nice vacations, college (and college apartments and BILLS!), all of our cars (including my sisters car AND her winter tires--and she is now 29), the majority of my wedding, etc was paid for by my parents. At the time I was young and my parents offered and just did these things without us even asking, so I assumed they had the money to do this. But now that I am older and I talk finance with my parents, I realized they did/do these things by dipping out of their retirements. It makes me so mad now that I accepted these things as the norm when they should have made me get loans like every other college kid to get an off campus apartment.

I am SO grateful for the opportunities that they granted us and the fact that I have very little debt now, but I feel terrible knowing that they are both almost 70 with TONS of debt and very little retirement savings (and they are both still working as much as possible to continue paying the bills).

[rosiebear]

Two of my sisters are doing this. One of them fully paid for both of her kids' college educations and sent $$ along to help pay for living expenses. Ok, I can see doing this, but one of their sons was also working PT during college, and when he graduated he had $10k in the bank! It was the money his parents were sending him, thinking he needed it to live on.

The other kid never really found his footing after college, and was living with roommates in bad situations, trying to get more work, working odd jobs, etc. They would send him $$ for food and rent, buy him a winter coat, buy him a bed, that kind of stuff. He eventually moved back in with them. He's almost 30 years old, now does have a decent paying job, but chooses to live at home where his laundry is always clean and folded, his meals are cooked, and his lunches are always packed.

My kids are teens, and I hope they don't want this for themselves.

[jillboston]

Mar 6, 2015 11:21:49 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

My folks got help from their folks, so they want to do the same but they're not really in a position.

They recently cosigned my brother's giant mortgage....ugh.

[dirtyred]

I know when we got married my DH thought I was turning into the evil stepmother when I immediately started discussions about how we were going to wean his boys  (then 16 and 14) off of the parental dole.  We paid for four years of college, but slowly decreased how much we spent on them during the college years, always telling them that the gravy train ended at graduation.

Now, as he sees other parents whose children live in the basement with no ambition and little income he's glad we followed my evil plan.  Secretly, I think the boys are as well.  They're doing SO much better than their friends who were not trained to be self-supporting.

[kittycatlove]

Mar 6, 2015 10:29:49 GMT -5 leeba25 said:

Unfortunately I'm in the opposite situation that the article describes - my husband & I are early 40's with young kids, and my parents haven't saved a goddamned dime for their retirement. At least my dad has a pension, so he should be good, but my mom has literally zero, and she just told me that they're about to take her house.

Most people I know are more in my situation than the one the article describes. I'm a bit older than the kids in the article though. I can't tell you how much it pisses me off that my parents have screwed themselves - to my detriment. As a result, we are saving like fiends for our retirement ... 529s be damned.

Yeah this is where we're at, but only with my mom. She is 71 and still working part-time because she doesn't have anything for retirement. She's pretty much assumed my sister and I will take care of her once she can't work any more.

[simpsongal]

Mar 6, 2015 12:10:14 GMT -5 jillboston said:

Mar 6, 2015 11:21:49 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

My folks got help from their folks, so they want to do the same but they're not really in a position.

They recently cosigned my brother's giant mortgage....ugh.

I made a similar face when they did so against my advice.  And yet again when me bro said he liquidated his retirement savings and doesn't have another penny to his name to afford this house.

[penguingrrl]

Mar 6, 2015 12:30:29 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Mar 6, 2015 12:10:14 GMT -5 jillboston said:

I made a similar face when they did so against my advice.  And yet again when me bro said he liquidated his retirement savings and doesn't have another penny to his name to afford this house.

Um, in that case why does he have that house? He should have waited until he could afford it or bought a smaller, less expensive house (and coming from HCOL and VHCOL areas I realize how hard that can be).

[Deleted]

It's been a mix for us. My parents didn't have much money when I was in high school/college, so no car, no college support, had to pay rent to my stepmother when I lived with her the first few years after college. My parents had the wedding on their property and bought my dress ($480, so not Kleinfeld territory), in-laws did rehearsal dinner, and DH and I covered the rest. Overall since my dad and mom divorced, dad and stepmother are in great financial shape. They've helped with the membership costs for daycare (in lieu of holiday/birthday presents), they helped us with some small vacations over the years, and are taking us all (my brother and his wife included) to Disney. I know they're in excellent shape for retirment, and have all POA/wills/medical decisions planned out.

My mom is a complete cluster, and lives in the middle of nowhere 14hrs away. I don't talk with her, but my brother and I often discuss how we don't know how things will work out if she gets majorly ill from smoking or if she and stepdad need long term care. They cashed in stepdad's pension to buy their house, and my mom never worked more than 1-2yrs at any given place so they are in incredibly bad shape; and her moving in with either of us is an absolute 'no.' My in-laws are a complete mystery. They've cut back in spending the past few years after FIL had to stop his business a few years early. They won't discuss it though, so time will tell.

[jillboston]

Mar 6, 2015 12:30:29 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Mar 6, 2015 12:10:14 GMT -5 jillboston said:

I made a similar face when they did so against my advice.  And yet again when me bro said he liquidated his retirement savings and doesn't have another penny to his name to afford this house.

[Chuppathingy]

I realize this is flammable, and I'll totally own it if necessary when I can get back to post after work, but I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for boomers, period. These parents may not be individually responsible. I don't care. Collectively they are part of the generation that has completely fucked our national economy. Wages, student loans, lack of career mobility (because no one retires any more) and a million shitty decisions lacking in foresight by their collective generation have made it so my collective generation can't build wealth at anywhere near the rate they did, and millenial's children will likely suffer for it too. Even if it doesn't affect me personally, fuck them all.

Sent from my SM-N910T using proboards

[savan]

Mar 6, 2015 13:08:52 GMT -5 @mx said:

I have some friends who get monetary help from parents that they don't need. I think a lot of families have extreme "fairness" standards that don't make sense. Like, my friend who has a low six figure salary and lives with her boyfriend who has a higher low six figure salary. No kids, no student loans. They don't need help. But because her parents have helped her sister with things--like a wedding and a downpayment they cut her a check every time. Like dollar for dollar they match it. I think they are probably a-ok to retire but it does seem absurd to me.

And it's not just parents. Recently I got a large 4 figure check from my grandmother that said "happy belated 30th." I turned 30 a few years ago. I called my dad who manages my grandma's money (she's 93) and he told me his sister had called asking for help for her son (my cousin) who decided not to go to college and alternates between laying tile and delivering Chinese food. He was about to turn 30 so they decided to cut him a big check. Since I was the only other grandchild over 30 and I didn't get that they wrote me one too. But I don't need her money and while I'm very grateful that I can now add heated floors to my bathroom remodel I'm also embarrassed about it. She had the money and it's her call, but I think it could probably go to better use!

My dad does this.  He feels guilty about the money he spends on my brother and his kids because they live closer, so he transfers us money every few months.  We don't need it.  My mom died 10 years ago and he has more than enough money himself so he figures we either get some of it now or get it all when he dies.  I say thank you and put it in savings.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Mar 6, 2015 9:56:55 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Mar 6, 2015 9:51:45 GMT -5 jillboston said:

It is a very delicate discussion. They are very vulnerable and ashamed - that is why I go thru a box of Kleenex every couple of weeks. I ask whether the kids (if they are over 18) are working. They will often say they are in college - (even when the "kids" are 28, 29, 30 - you get the picture) - then I explain that I worked 20 hours per week in college. I also explain that getting even some rent from them would help. It is really hard not to come off really judgey. I drilled down with one client (convenience store owner) and discovered after a few discussions that he was paying a full ride for his daughter at UCONN. At that point we did the "choices" discussion.  Sigh.. It  is exhausting.

It can be very difficult. I practiced family law for the first 6 months of my career, and I made a switch because I concluded that I was essentially a glorified therapist who happened to do some legal work on the side.  I just didn't have the emotional bandwidth to be there for my clients in this capacity.

Family law is what made me drop out of practice altogether. I couldn't handle it. And developed a slight drinking problem in the process.

[kirra]

Mar 6, 2015 9:20:12 GMT -5 wawa said:

Mar 6, 2015 9:13:54 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

We had a thread on reasons to touch retirement on MM before. My answer was to pay a ransom...for like one of six people lol. You take the 7th closest person to me and I will pray for you both.

That was one of the three reasons that popped into my head.  Ransom for my baby or husband.  Maybe my mama (she's lived her life...).  Definitely my sister.  My brother might be SOL.

the other two reasons I talked myself out of - one was to save my house if I was about to lose it - but no, fuck that.  Get out.  Default.  Rent a small place for a while and put my shit back together.  And the other was to pay for life saving medical treatment if my insurance somehow wouldn't cover it  - but I'd just rack up a giant bill and figure it out later. Or they have loans for that, don't they?

My parents aren't taking money out of retirement to help us, but they do help with medical bills.

My medical bills for 2014 after insurance were 18% of my H's pretax salary. They'll be that high this year, too.

There aren't loans for that. Not when you're my age at our current HHI, anyway.

[dottyblue]

Mar 6, 2015 13:08:52 GMT -5 @mx said:

I have some friends who get monetary help from parents that they don't need.

Yup, this is us.  My ILs are giving us money we don't NEED for a house downpayment purely because they are helping out my SIL and want to keep things fair.  We will gladly take it because we are fortunate enough that my ILs have planned pretty well for retirement.  There is definitely something to the older generations wanting to provide extras for their kids.

[pitta12]

Yeah, I think the thing is that young people today validly do have a much harder time accumulating savings than the boomers did. That's just a fact, so it isn't reallly fair to say that parents should never be willing to give a dime to their adult kids because bootstraps. But the other side of that coin is that there are a lot of situations where this is taken way too far and does nothing but harm both sides.

But, the boomers are the ones running the government and corporate America at this point and they made a lot of the decisions that brought all this about, so there is a bit of irony to it all.

[NitaX]

I'm like choco here; I can't wrap my head around any of this. I went to a local university on a scholarship because I knew full and well that my parents didn't funds to pay for me to go to a school where tuition is $50K a year. Not only that, I wasn't going to burden them with that cost. 

My grandmother paid for my first wedding, but even that wasn't a giant price tag. I found out years later that she did it. My grandmother probably has a decent savings set aside, but I keep telling her that she has GOT to cut my aunts and cousins off from sucking her dry. She and I have had several conversations where she expressed how pleased she was that my H and I seem to be doing fairly well and haven't needed anyone's assistance. 

I've also hammered home to my 12 yr old that my job is to help her become a productive citizen. I'm not going to foot the bill for foolishness. She can get out in the world like I did, find an apartment, a job and drive an inexpensive car. I'm not paying for your life. I simply won't do it. No one gave me money to buy a house either. While that's nice, I'm not raiding my IRA funds for you. NAWL. Sorry. Not doing it. Plus the way this economy has turned on homeowners? Nope. Not today.

ETA: If I kick the bucket, they can get the benefit of a nice life insurance fund. That's it yo. 

[eponinepontmercy]

Mar 6, 2015 13:04:10 GMT -5 Chuppathingy said:

I realize this is flammable, and I'll totally own it if necessary when I can get back to post after work, but I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for boomers, period. These parents may not be individually responsible. I don't care. Collectively they are part of the generation that has completely fucked our national economy. Wages, student loans, lack of career mobility (because no one retires any more) and a million shitty decisions lacking in foresight by their collective generation have made it so my collective generation can't build wealth at anywhere near the rate they did, and millenial's children will likely suffer for it too. Even if it doesn't affect me personally, fuck them all.

Sent from my SM-N910T using proboards

If this is flammable, we'd have to shut the board down.  Boomer hate is a total unity horse here.

[simplyinpenguin]

I watched my parents (who were born on the last years of the "cutoff" for boomers) filed for bankruptcy when I was a young child, we all struggled through it until my parents were able to get new jobs. They never asked for help, even from my dad's parents (the only set of GP still alive), but the situation of living under bankruptcy still gets me. My dad constantly taught me to "fend for myself" "you're weak if you need help".

One day, I was so far behind on my bills that I went to jail for theft because I would've been perceived as "weak" for asking my parents for help. I was working too but was being paid next to nothing. But I've never asked for financial help (except with H as a last resort. Even I don't like asking him for help).

So call me a little jelly that people on this board get financial help lol.

[partiallysunny]

My ILs are in this situation with my SILs. It's unfortunate. They don't have a lot of extra as it is. It's not even things like education or cars. It's housing, food, and gas money.

My parents are in the little to no savings department. My brother gives them money. Also unfortunate. They did help me buy college books once and some moving expenses almost ten years ago. When they were a little better off. But they also stole money from me, so I think we're even.

[zoegirltx]

I guess my take on it is that I want to take care of MYSELF so that one day I am not a burden to my kids. So if that means Jr. doesn't go to private school or the most expensive college, I'm actually doing them a favor so that they won't have to worry about their parents in the future.

My mom is set & actually living well below her means in retirement. My dad is still putting his 2 kids into college & has ZERO saved for their school or his retirement.

[mrspez07]

So, are we going to have a wave of senior citizens homeless on the streets and sleeping under the bridge? This is terrifying to think this is a real possibility.

[overture]

Honestly, the only reason I care whether boomers can support themselves in retirement is so they can fucking RETIRE and get out of the damn workforce to make way for their kids' generation. I thank the lord my parents both had state jobs for 40 years and have good retirement benefits, and now SS. If they didn't have that, I have no idea where they'd be now.

But on a macro level, boomers have had it easy as pie their whole lives compared to their parents and their kids, so fuck 'em. Hopefully they can feed themselves on memories of being able to put themselves through college by working a summer job and of how awesome the 60s were.

[wise_rita]

Mar 6, 2015 8:33:20 GMT -5 IIOY said:

A 48-year-old woman who lives in Westport, Conn., sheepishly admits that she and her husband, a finance executive, give their 22-year-old daughter tens of thousands of dollars each year to supplement the $30,000 she earns as a writer at a beauty website. The money covers her share of the rent on a Brooklyn (N.Y.) apartment, her frequent use of Uber car services, clothing purchases, and regular manicures and pedicures. “I tell my daughter, ‘We’re going to help you, but do you really need to buy $4 lattes every day and $14 kale salads?’ ” says the mother, who didn’t want to be named because she doesn’t want to embarrass her daughter or her husband. “When I was 22, I ate pizza every night.”


The couple have a comfortable six-figure income but haven’t purchased long-term care insurance for themselves or put aside all they’ll need—at least $10 million—to maintain their lifestyle in retirement. They wonder if and when their daughter will become self-sufficient and whether their son will also expect continued support after he graduates from college in a few years. “We’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, because we want our kids to be happy,” she says.

OMFG no you are not!