THIS IS A HP VIRGINS AND VETERANS THREAD. Vets, please include any thoughts that reveal spoilers or any foreshadowing whatsoever in SPOILER TAGS. This is done by typing [ spoiler ] whatever you're spoiling [ / spoiler ], without the spaces. If you want to gush about it openly, please feel free to create a separate post to do so - just be clear in the title that it will include series spoilers.
As with the last discussion, I found some interesting discussion questions online. Feel free to answer some/all of them if you don't know where to start! Otherwise, feel free to spill whatever is on your mind!
1) If this is your first time reading, what did you think? If you're rereading, what stuck out to you this time?
2) Do you have a favorite line from Azkaban?
3) Sirius Black has been a prisoner in Azkaban for twelve years. Peter Pettigrew has spent those years hiding in the body of a rat. How have these years affected each of them? How did Sirius survive in Azkaban and how was he able to escape? What does this tell us about his character?
4) Voldemort does not appear in this novel at all – how is this significant and what effect does it have on the novel in terms of themes and structure?
5) Harry learns that Remus Lupin knew his parents, yet we never see scenes of him going to Lupin to talk about his parents. Why is that, and why might Harry have opted to not have that conversation with Lupin?
6) What's the thematic significance of the book's time travel chapter being called "Hermione's Secret"? Are mysteries and the past thematically linked here? Why didn't she share it with Harry and Ron sooner?
7) In what ways do we see Harry, Ron, and Hermione growing up in this novel?
8) Harry chooses not to kill Pettigrew, even though he was the one responsible for killing Harry’s parents by revealing their location to Voldemort. Why do you think he wanted to send Pettigrew to Azkaban instead? Would you have made the decision?
9) How does Harry feel about his parents at this point in his life? What sort of clues and details do we get about his feelings towards them?
10) Sirius tells Harry that he is “truly his father’s son”. What does he mean by that? What are some similarities and differences between Harry and his father?
11) Animals, real and magical, play a huge role in this book. Discuss the importance of Scabbers the rat, Crookshanks the cat, the black dog, Buckbeak the Hippogriff, and the werewolf.
12) Consider some of the new names in this book and discuss what the names suggest about the characters: Cornelius Fudge Sirius Black Remus Lupin Wormtail (Peter Pettigrew) Sybill Trelawney (Any other names you'd like to talk about?)
13) Let's talk about the Marauder's map! In the previous book, Chamber, Arthur Weasley told Ginny to not trust magical objects that had a mind of their own. This proved to be true with Tom Riddle's Diary. Do you think this is also true for the Marauder's map? Why or why not? Do you think that the map is in the right hands now? How might other characters have used the map?
14) Could you be trusted with the Marauder's map? What would you use it for and who would you spy on?
*******
Next up is "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire."
Important: Do you guys still want to break the books up into checkpoints from here on out? If so, where, in the book, do you think we should stop and check in? Also, how long should we have to get to the checkpoint? One week? Two weeks?
I'll make a new post notifying everyone of whatever we all decide.
Post by noodleskooze on Mar 23, 2015 10:20:57 GMT -5
I don't have responses ready to all the questions, but I just have to say that Hermione sticking it to Malfoy was the best part of this book IMO. I love Hermione in PoA.
13) Let's talk about the Marauder's map! In the previous book, Chamber, Arthur Weasley told Ginny to not trust magical objects that had a mind of their own. This proved to be true with Tom Riddle's Diary. Do you think this is also true for the Marauder's map? Why or why not? Do you think that the map is in the right hands now? How might other characters have used the map?
Did the map really have a "mind" though? It mostly just showed where everyone was so in that respect was no different from the Weasley's clock. I know it did insult people that were trying to access the info, but even that was mostly just regurgitating pre-programmed responses.
Also, I always found it funny that Fred and George had this the whole time and never noticed Peter Pettigrew with Ron.
I'll also come back and answer the questions later, but right up front I'm going to go off on a bit of a rant about this book and a particular meme about Buckbeak that I'm sure is going to come up in this thread. Only I'm going to bring it up first and refute it because it is wrong.
This meme is WRONG. Wrong wrong wrong wrong! Repeat after me, Buckbeak was never dead.
The whole thing with saving Buckbeak is a time travel paradox. They are able to use the Time Tuner to go back and save Buckbeak, because they had already used the time turner to save him; he was savable, because he wasn't dead. Dumbledore knows that Buckbeak escaped because he was there at the execution hearing (and he knows about Hermione's Time Turner so he puts two and two together by the end of the evening), and when he's sending Hermione and Harry back in time, he gives them the suggestion because he knows that Buckbeak has already gotten away.
Don't believe me? Go back and re-read the end of chapter 16 (Professor Trelawney's Prediction) and the beginning of chapter 17 (Cat, Rat, and Dog). It is implied that Buckbeak was executed, but you never actually have confirmation of his death (because he didn't die!): The rat was squealing wildly, but not loudly enough to cover up the sounds drifting from Hagrid's garden. There was a jumble of indistinct male voices, a silence, and then, without warning, the unmistakable swish and thud of an axe....The three of them stood transfixed with horror under the Invisibility Cloak... Then, behind them, they heard a wild howling.
They hear noises from the axe and from Hagrid, but they never actually see a beheaded hippogriff, and they don't hear what the voices were talking about. They know they were at an execution hearing, and based on the vague things they hear they (and you as the reader) fill in the blanks (but you fill them in incorrectly at the time).
Now compare this to the same scene in chapter 21 (Hermione's Secret). I'm trimming a lot out here; it's longer than the previous scene because we actually hear the dialog.: "Now?" Harry whispered?"No!" said Hermione. "If we steal him now, those Committee people will think Hagrid set him free! We've got to wait until they've seen he's tied outside!""That's going to give us about sixty seconds," said Harry. This was starting to seem impossible.
<They hear themselves finding Scabbers, Hermione gives Harry a lesson on how they are breaking wizard law, how messing with time is dangerous, etc., then they see their past selves leaving, Hagrid tells past them "Go quick, Don' listen...">
...Harry and Hermione hidden in the trees could now hear what was happening inside the cabin through the back door."Where is the beast" came the cold voice of Macnair."Out ---- outside," Hagrid croaked.Harry pulled his head out of sight as Macnair's face appeared at Hagrids' window, staring out at Buckbeak.<Fudge reads the execution order, Harry starts to steal Buckbeak>"Well, let's get this over with," said the reedy voice of the Committee member from inside Hagrid's cabin. "Hagrid, perhaps it will be better if you stay inside ---""No, I --- I wan' ter be with him... I don' wan' him ter be alone ---"
<More screwing around in the cabin because someone forgot to sign the form, Harry struggling to make Buckbeak move and Hermione freaking out, and them hiding in the woods.>
Silence... then ---"Where is it?" said the reed voice of the Committee member. "Where is the beast?" "It was tied here!" said the executioner furiously. "I saw it! Just here!""How extraordinary," said Dumbledore. There was a note of amusement in his voice."Beaky!" said Hagrid huskily."There was a swishing noise, and then the thud of an axe. The executioner seemed to have swung it into the fence in anger. And then came the howling, and this time they could hear Hagrid's words through the sobs."Gone! Gone! Bless his little beak, he's gone! Musta pulled himself free! Beak, yeh clever boy!"
The swish and thud, and Hagrid's howls all happen as before, but now we see/hear them in the correct context, which is that Buckbeak had disappeared. He was never beheaded like was implied, the sounds we heard were just the frustrated executioner and a shocked Hagrid.
If you still don't believe me, there is further proof in chapter 20 (The Dementor's Kiss) of Harry and Hermione having already traveling back in time to save Buckbeak, because of the mystery figure who casts the Patronus that saves them from the rogue Dementors. As we also find out in chapter 21, it was Harry who casts it, and he was able to cast such a strong Patronus because he knew he already had.But no one came... no one was coming to help this time---And then it hit him --- he understood. He hadn't seen his father --- he had seem *himself*---
TL;DR -- Buckbeak had already been freed by Harry and Hermione in a time travel paradox, and thus was never dead, therefore the meme is wrong and whoever wrote it is an asshole who is missing that this is a brilliant piece of writing for a children's novel. (Because let's face it, the don't really turn into YA/Teen books until the dark turn at the end of four.)
13) Let's talk about the Marauder's map! In the previous book, Chamber, Arthur Weasley told Ginny to not trust magical objects that had a mind of their own. This proved to be true with Tom Riddle's Diary. Do you think this is also true for the Marauder's map? Why or why not? Do you think that the map is in the right hands now? How might other characters have used the map?
Did the map really have a "mind" though? It mostly just showed where everyone was so in that respect was no different from the Weasley's clock. I know it did insult people that were trying to access the info, but even that was mostly just regurgitating pre-programmed responses.
Also, I always found it funny that Fred and George had this the whole time and never noticed Peter Pettigrew with Ron.
i loved this book. my favorite so far, but i am still not done with the series.
i HATED hermoine until the end of this book. she finally turned a corner from annoying whiny know-it-all into smart and using her will for a purpose. i do think that's partly her growing up though. i am glad she turned a corner because i was not happy with jk rowling before that happened.
re: voldemort, i think they are setting up some false sense of security. he's not there, harry thinks he got him. i think it sets up goblet of fire very well.
Since much of the action in later books is put in motion by Pettigrew returning to Voldemort
It's still one of my favorites. The end and the Sirius reveal caught me completely off guard. I was just mesmerized and owned by J.K. Rowling from that moment on.
Post by rootbeerfloat on Mar 23, 2015 13:24:46 GMT -5
I have not finished re-reading yet and will come back to this thread in a few days. But this is where I confess that I saw all the movies before reading the series. Because I saw it on a plane half-asleep, the PoA movie is the only one I barely remembered, so when I read it, I really liked it because almost everything was a surprise, lol. It is one of my favorites.
I SWEAR I posted a response this morning, but proboards must have eaten it.
I love this book. I think it's still my favorite, because it's still tightly written (I'm looking at you, Order or the Phoenix) and it really starts to bring in the back story of Harry's parents and the first war against Voldemort. You also get to see James and his friends as real people - real people who screwed around in school like anyone else, not just the Amazing Dad(tm) of Harry Potter.
Anyway, I find it interesting that Harry is always compared with James, because he looks like him and plays Quidditch, but I think Harry is more mature than James was at his age. I think there's a bit of hero worship going on because James died a hero and had a good reputation, and of course because Harry never got to really know him. But James was kind of an asshole.
Exhibit 1: the trick James and Sirius played on Snape with the whomping willow. *I* would hate him if I were Snape, too! Even with the change of heart, it was still BS. Exhibit 2: the fact that Sirius and Lupin are about to kill Peter and Harry stops the, saying that his parents wouldn't want them to become killers. Er, are you sure about that? You can argue that James, Sirius and Lupin didn't have to grow up quite as fast because there was no Voldemort (although there WAS - Voldemort graduated from the school 50 years before Harry was there, and Harry's parents have been dead for about 20 years, so clearly Voldy was up to something in those 30 years). But they weren't, like, integrally linked to Voldemort's demise and known to him by name or anything.
Lily thought he was a jerk until 7th year or something
Yeah, Harry can screw around and make some dumb choices, like sneaking into Hogsmeade when everyone assumes a violent murderer is after him, but he has a moral compass, dammit!
Anyway, I find it interesting that Harry is always compared with James, because he looks like him and plays Quidditch, but I think Harry is more mature than James was at his age. I think there's a bit of hero worship going on because James died a hero and had a good reputation, and of course because Harry never got to really know him. But James was kind of an asshole.
Exhibit 1: the trick James and Sirius played on Snape with the whomping willow. *I* would hate him if I were Snape, too! Even with the change of heart, it was still BS. Exhibit 2: the fact that Sirius and Lupin are about to kill Peter and Harry stops the, saying that his parents wouldn't want them to become killers. Er, are you sure about that? You can argue that James, Sirius and Lupin didn't have to grow up quite as fast because there was no Voldemort (although there WAS - Voldemort graduated from the school 50 years before Harry was there, and Harry's parents have been dead for about 20 years, so clearly Voldy was up to something in those 30 years). But they weren't, like, integrally linked to Voldemort's demise and known to him by name or anything.
Lily thought he was a jerk until 7th year or something
Yeah, Harry can screw around and make some dumb choices, like sneaking into Hogsmeade when everyone assumes a violent murderer is after him, but he has a moral compass, dammit!
Exhibit 1: Well, to be fair James's part in the Whomping Willow incident was saving Snape. Snape assumes James got cold feet, but I think that was him leaping to conclusions about what transpired beforehand.
Exhibit 2: Voldy was definitely in power by the time the Marauders were in school. One of the comments McGonagall makes in PS in 1981 is that the wizarding world has had precious little to celebrate in 10 years, which would put that in 1971... the year they all started school.
MWPP and Lily were part of the first Order of the Phoenix and fought Death Eaters repeatedly, since they "thrice defied" Voldemort. JKR also has a short story (less than 1000 words) she released several years ago that show James & Sirius fighting Death Eaters then getting into trouble with Muggle police. I'm pretty sure that, due to their wealth, at least a couple of them also fought for the Order rather than having full time jobs.
Keep in mind the first interaction between Snape, James, and Sirius was Snape insulting James's father and other Gryffindors as being stupid. There's also the fact that Snape hung out with a bunch of kids who were confirmed Death Eaters in the First Wizarding War and became one himself. Snape also used what is the equivalent of racial slurs, including in front of Lily. Lily didn't like James because he tormented young Snape who, objectively, was kind of an asshole himself.
Post by anastasia517 on Mar 23, 2015 17:04:48 GMT -5
I love one of the last lines of this book ("He was my mum and dad's best friend. He's a convicted murderer, but he's broken out of wizard prison and he's on the run. He likes to keep in touch with me, though … keep up with news … check if I'm happy.") because Harry has something to hold over the Dursleys' heads.
I also love the Map's insults to Snape. I couldn't stop laughing when reading it as a kid. “Mr. Moony presents his compliments to Professor Snape, and begs him to keep his abnormally large nose out of other people's business. Mr. Prongs agrees with Mr. Moony, and would like to add that Professor Snape is an ugly git. Mr. Padfoot would like to register his astonishment that an idiot like that ever became a professor. Mr. Wormtail bids Professor Snape good day, and advises him to wash his hair, the slimeball.”
And Dumbledore's wisdom: You think the dead we loved ever truly leave us?
Exhibit 2: the fact that Sirius and Lupin are about to kill Peter and Harry stops the, saying that his parents wouldn't want them to become killers. Er, are you sure about that? You can argue that James, Sirius and Lupin didn't have to grow up quite as fast because there was no Voldemort (although there WAS - Voldemort graduated from the school 50 years before Harry was there, and Harry's parents have been dead for about 20 years, so clearly Voldy was up to something in those 30 years). But they weren't, like, integrally linked to Voldemort's demise and known to him by name or anything.
They've only been dead about 13 years at this point in the series, but yes, Voldemort was definitely up to stuff when Harry's parents, Snape, et al were in school. I feel like the movies really confuses everyone's ages and the timeline when compared to the books. Although, I wouldn't exactly call the books clear on how old everyone is supposed to be, they just really don't match up.
Hagrid should be in his mid-60s when all of this is going on (since it was shown in the previous book that he went to school at the same time as Voldemort), but they portray him as being much younger. Robbie Coltrane would have been 54 during this movie in 2004, but I always felt like they made him out to be even younger than that.
Especially since Voldemort should also be a 60 year old wizard, but was being played by 40 something Ralph Fiennes. Although this bugs me less, because he's been sans body for a decade, has no nose, and the weird snake face, and you can't really tell old he should be.
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Same with Lupin, Sirius, and Snape, but in reverse. They should all be in their early 30s, but at the time of this movie in 2004, Alan Rickman was 58, Gary Oldman was 46, and David Thewlis was 41.
Post by hopecounts on Mar 23, 2015 17:36:36 GMT -5
Finally have a chance to post. I love how Hermione comes into her own in this book and transitions from being just the irritating know it all into a really awesome character.
I love seeing Harry getting to know Lupin. And yes seeing some of the differences between Harry and James, and how in many ways he has the best of both of them.
Hagrid should be in his mid-60s when all of this is going on (since it was shown in the previous book that he went to school at the same time as Voldemort), but they portray him as being much younger. Robbie Coltrane would have been 54 during this movie in 2004, but I always felt like they made him out to be even younger than that.
Post by anastasia517 on Mar 23, 2015 18:18:16 GMT -5
To add even more complications to wizards' ages, there are some inconsistencies. For example, Pottermore extras have given McGonagall's birthday as October 4th, 1935. That would make her recently 46 when Harry was orphaned and about to turn 56 when he goes to school. However, before this information came out her birthday (as extrapolated by her description) was placed at c. 1925, a full decade earlier.
There are also issues with the birthdays of Bill & Charlie Weasley, since with Charlie's given birthday he would have graduated Hogwarts the June before Harry started and that wouldn't work with the comments about Gryffindor not winning since Charlie was around. (You haven't won in the last 3 months? You don't say!)
As for other birthdays, we know: - Albus Dumbledore: July/August 1881* - Voldemort: Dec. 31, c. 1926* - Hagrid: Dec. 6, 1928* - Snape & Lily: January 1960 / James & Lupin: March 1960 (Sirius & Peter would be born Sept. 1, 1959-August 31, 1960) * Dates from the very-reliable Harry Potter Lexicon
So, in this book Dumbledore would be 112, Voldemort would turn 73 on NYE, Hagrid would turn 71 in December, the Marauders/Lily/Snape would be 33-34.
Professor Trelawney might not be a fraud. She keeps seeing the Grim, but maybe instead of the Grim, she sees Sirius (who looks like the Grim) and he is indeed in Harry's life even though he doesn't know it when she makes the predictions. He's watching the Quiddich games, sends Harry the broom etc. She also says he has the shortest lifeline she has ever seen. Technically he dies in 4 years. She may be better at divination than people think
2) Do you have a favorite line from Azkaban?
One of my favorite lines from the whole series: "I solemnly swear that I am up to no good."
3) Sirius Black has been a prisoner in Azkaban for twelve years. Peter Pettigrew has spent those years hiding in the body of a rat. How have these years affected each of them? How did Sirius survive in Azkaban and how was he able to escape? What does this tell us about his character?
Sirius survived Azkaban by transforming into a dog at times since the guards could not feed off of his emotions in the same way. I think this tells us that he is a survivor. I really admire Sirius, he's one of my favorite characters. He is a fucking fighter man.
Given what we know about his upbringing, it's amazing that he grew to be a decent person let alone the wonderful person that he is now. He goes against the grain, his mother is a muggle hater and he puts up muggle posters in his bedroom with permanent sticky stuff, sorts into Gryffindor against his entire family history, fights against all of them when they join Voldemort, refuses to submit to the dementors and eventually escapes (which is impossible!) to save his best friend's son. He is THE SHIT.
I think spending 12 years as a rat didn't do much to Peter. He was kind of ratty anyways you know?
4) Voldemort does not appear in this novel at all – how is this significant and what effect does it have on the novel in terms of themes and structure?
I think this is significant because he's laying low. Kind of like when you have a 2 year old and it gets quiet. Quiet = danger. I don't think Harry believes he's gone. He's just focusing all his anger at Sirius who is an immediate threat in his eyes. I usually start with this book when I do rereads because I agree with the other poster, it sets up the meat of the story which plays out in the rest of the books.
5) Harry learns that Remus Lupin knew his parents, yet we never see scenes of him going to Lupin to talk about his parents. Why is that, and why might Harry have opted to not have that conversation with Lupin?
I don't know, I always wondered this. Maybe there's some sort of student/teacher boundary that Harry doesn't feel comfortable crossing at this point? I really don't have a clue why he doesn't talk to Lupin more about James.
6) What's the thematic significance of the book's time travel chapter being called "Hermione's Secret"? Are mysteries and the past thematically linked here? Why didn't she share it with Harry and Ron sooner?
I...have no clue what the answer is to the significance of the chapter title. She didn't share it because McGonagall said not to tell anyone. What I always wondered is that Hermione says you are not supposed to be seen. Well...she's seen in all her classes all year so...how does that work?
7) In what ways do we see Harry, Ron, and Hermione growing up in this novel?
I think Harry grew up a lot when he realized that he was hanging onto his parents voices, as horrible as that was and I think it showed a lot of maturity to let them go. The scene where he hears James and he explains it to Lupin makes me ugly cry every single time. I want to give him an extra long hug, knit him a sweater and Molly Weasley him to death.
8) Harry chooses not to kill Pettigrew, even though he was the one responsible for killing Harry’s parents by revealing their location to Voldemort. Why do you think he wanted to send Pettigrew to Azkaban instead? Would you have made the decision?
Harry says he wants to send Pettigrew to Azkaban because he doesn't want his dads best friends to become killers. I would venture to guess some of it is because he knows how horrible Azkaban is and possibly thinks Pettigrew deserves it. I'm not sure what I would have decided. I don't know that I would make the same choice.
9) How does Harry feel about his parents at this point in his life? What sort of clues and details do we get about his feelings towards them?
I think he has them on a pedestal which is understandable since they died when he was a kid but also because no one has really talked to him about what his parents were like. He doesn't know them as people, he only knows their actions (fighting Voldemort, sacrificing themselves for his life) of course he thinks they are heros. I think a big clue is when he says "my dad didn't STRUT". Well how does he know that? He doesn't really, it just doesn't fit his image of his father. I would bet he did strut around a little bit.
I don't even blame James for being immature, Harry is years more mature than most because he's had to be. He's had to fight for his life multiple times and grew up in horrible surroundings. He doesn't have the luxury of a happy, safe childhood.
10) Sirius tells Harry that he is “truly his father’s son”. What does he mean by that? What are some similarities and differences between Harry and his father?
I think he means that James was an honorable person and when Harry decides not to kill Peter, Sirius can understand why. The similarities are their looks, Quiddich skills, and bravery. I think there are a lot of differences, Harry would never treat someone the way James does. He's only rude to Malfoy who is on the same playing field (not like how Snape was kind of weak and nerdy and James was a big tough guy picking on him).
11) Animals, real and magical, play a huge role in this book. Discuss the importance of Scabbers the rat, Crookshanks the cat, the black dog, Buckbeak the Hippogriff, and the werewolf.
It's almost like a perfect storm because the story falls apart if one of these animals is missing.
12) Consider some of the new names in this book and discuss what the names suggest about the characters:
I LOVE JK rowling's character names and I love to google them. Some of my answers are copy/paste from google results.
Cornelius Fudge
Hmm... google tells me that Cornelius was the first Gentile convert in the Bible. That doesn't really match up here so I'm not sure but I did find this: "Fudge," besides being a toffee-like confection (though softer, and crumbly rather than chewy), can mean "nonsense." This meaning originated from (probably 18th-century) sailors;[10] it was derived from a merchant-Captain Fudge, who was renowned as a teller of tall tales. As a verb, it means to "evade" or to "falsify." In technological jargon, it means "to perform in an incomplete but marginally acceptable way." That sounds about right!
Sirius Black
The brightest star visible from any part of Earth is Sirius in the constellation Canis Major the Greater Dog. Sirius is sometimes called the Dog Star. And he's a black dog at that.
Remus Lupin
In Roman mythology Romulus and Remus were the founders of Rome. They were abandoned to die as infants but were saved and kept alive by a wolf. "Lupin" is derived from "lupinus", Latin for "wolf-like"; "lupus", or "wolf", being the basic word.
Wormtail (Peter Pettigrew)
In the Bible, Peter is a name of one of Christ's apostles who, on the morning of the crucifixion, denied Christ, although he later repented. Also, the name "Pettigrew" could be derived from the French word "petit" ("small") and the English word "grew," hence "grew small."
Sybill Trelawney
"Sibyl" was a priestess in ancient Greek mythology. A sibyl (one "l") is a woman who could look into the future. A sibyl also can be any female prophet. The name is from the Latin sibylla, seer.
(Any other names you'd like to talk about?)
Professor McGonagall Minerva is the Roman name of Athena, Greek goddess of wisdom, courage, strategy, and justice, (among other things), and a name suitable for Minerva's personality. Minerva was also the goddess of commerce and schools, which could connect to her being one of the heads of Hogwarts. The name Minerva also means "wise."
Fenrir is the son of Norse God Loki, and he's an evil monstrous wolf.
13) Let's talk about the Marauder's map! In the previous book, Chamber, Arthur Weasley told Ginny to not trust magical objects that had a mind of their own. This proved to be true with Tom Riddle's Diary. Do you think this is also true for the Marauder's map? Why or why not? Do you think that the map is in the right hands now? How might other characters have used the map?
Hmmm...well the map seems to be fairly harmless even though you can't see where it keeps it's brain. I don't see why you can't trust it, the map never lies! I think it's in the right hands, I think Malfoy would have used it to do assholey Malfoy things. If Hermione didn't turn it in, she would probably use it to find shortcuts to get between classes faster.
14) Could you be trusted with the Marauder's map? What would you use it for and who would you spy on?
Sure but i'm a goody two shoes, I wouldn't do anything nearly as fun as Harry and company do. I would probably use it to strategically place myself in the pathway of cute boys. Oh heyyyyyy, fancy meeting you here!
I feel like every time I post a discussion, I have a crazy day and don't have a lot of time to post. I've enjoyed reading the discussion over the course of today, though.
If this is your first time reading, what did you think? If you're rereading, what stuck out to you this time?
This is my first reread. Going through this again, I can see why many of you begin with this book. Even though the pace of the story picks up during the first read, I can really see now that I've read the series in its entirety how much Rowling is building the storyline for the books to come. It just blows me away.
The Sirius reveal really surprised me the first time. I remember my heart pounding while I was reading about the scene between Harry, Lupin, Sirius and Pettigrew. (And poor Snape! LOL.) Honestly, I didn't realize what Lupin was until they revealed it either. It's really obvious to me this time around and I wonder how I didn't figure it out, but oh well.
Do you have a favorite line from Azkaban?
My favorite line is "I solemnly swear that I am up to no good." Sirius Black has been a prisoner in Azkaban for twelve years. Peter Pettigrew has spent those years hiding in the body of a rat. How have these years affected each of them? How did Sirius survive in Azkaban and how was he able to escape? What does this tell us about his character?
I think that Sirius's time in Azkaban and his ability to make it out in one piece speaks volumes about not just his strength, but his integrity. His determination to get out and make things right/avenge Lily and James, and then his persistence when he got out to protect Harry. Sirius is kickass and is one of my favorites in the series.
Voldemort does not appear in this novel at all – how is this significant and what effect does it have on the novel in terms of themes and structure?
I agree with what others have said. I think it was maybe a combination of both a false sense of security in the wizarding world (not necessarily Harry - I don't think he believed that V was gone) and a set up for V to
I think it also gives us an opportunity to start learning about the dedication of the Death Eaters and the influence that V has over them. To witness one of James' dearest friends continue to turn against the Potter family after years and years is evil beyond comprehension.
Obviously, we see that in Goblet in the graveyard scene.
Harry learns that Remus Lupin knew his parents, yet we never see scenes of him going to Lupin to talk about his parents. Why is that, and why might Harry have opted to not have that conversation with Lupin?
I wondered this too. I don't know.
I think that, although Sirius and Lupin were really close to James, Sirius shows his nostalgia in a way that plays into Harry's view of his dad as a hero. Lupin loved James, but I feel like he doesn't look at him through the same lens that Sirius does. Not badly, just as a kid who did stupid things sometimes vs. someone who couldn't do wrong. I wonder if Harry could sense that, and if it made him hesitate a bit when it came to asking Lupin questions about his father. Like he didn't want his view of his dad as a hero to be compromised.
I don't know if that makes sense. lol. I'm tired. I'm going to bed now, but I'll answer more questions tomorrow.
To add even more complications to wizards' ages, there are some inconsistencies. For example, Pottermore extras have given McGonagall's birthday as October 4th, 1935. That would make her recently 46 when Harry was orphaned and about to turn 56 when he goes to school. However, before this information came out her birthday (as extrapolated by her description) was placed at c. 1925, a full decade earlier.
There are also issues with the birthdays of Bill & Charlie Weasley, since with Charlie's given birthday he would have graduated Hogwarts the June before Harry started and that wouldn't work with the comments about Gryffindor not winning since Charlie was around. (You haven't won in the last 3 months? You don't say!)
As for other birthdays, we know: - Albus Dumbledore: July/August 1881* - Voldemort: Dec. 31, c. 1926* - Hagrid: Dec. 6, 1928* - Snape & Lily: January 1960 / James & Lupin: March 1960 (Sirius & Peter would be born Sept. 1, 1959-August 31, 1960) * Dates from the very-reliable Harry Potter Lexicon
So, in this book Dumbledore would be 112, Voldemort would turn 73 on NYE, Hagrid would turn 71 in December, the Marauders/Lily/Snape would be 33-34.
... I may be too invested in Harry Potter.
JK Rowling has said that she's really bad at math. Add in the fact that she was the only (well, one of the only) people who knew how the series would come together AND the fact that her publisher was always eager to push the next book out ASAP, and there are some really weird time gaps.
But wizards are supposed to live about twice as long as humans, so around 150 years, meaning that Dumbledore being 112 is pretty believable
(except he would have been 40-50 during the events with Grindlewold?)
The whole, "we haven't won the cup since Charlie was here" could be interpreted "since he was seeker" but not necessarily every year that he was there. Like maybe the team was really good in Charlie's 4th year, but then they didn't win for a few years after that, despite him being on the team. Because yeah, I picked up on that too. Also, in Chamber of Secrets, Ginny says that she's wanted to go to Hogwarts ever since Bill went. Which... she would have been maximum 1 year old when Bill was in his first year, so I GUESS it could be interpreted as "since I saw Bill going off to Hogwarts as far back as I can remember."
I SWEAR I posted a response this morning, but proboards must have eaten it.
I love this book. I think it's still my favorite, because it's still tightly written (I'm looking at you, Order or the Phoenix) and it really starts to bring in the back story of Harry's parents and the first war against Voldemort. You also get to see James and his friends as real people - real people who screwed around in school like anyone else, not just the Amazing Dad(tm) of Harry Potter.
Anyway, I find it interesting that Harry is always compared with James, because he looks like him and plays Quidditch, but I think Harry is more mature than James was at his age. I think there's a bit of hero worship going on because James died a hero and had a good reputation, and of course because Harry never got to really know him. But James was kind of an asshole.
Exhibit 1: the trick James and Sirius played on Snape with the whomping willow. *I* would hate him if I were Snape, too! Even with the change of heart, it was still BS. Exhibit 2: the fact that Sirius and Lupin are about to kill Peter and Harry stops the, saying that his parents wouldn't want them to become killers. Er, are you sure about that? You can argue that James, Sirius and Lupin didn't have to grow up quite as fast because there was no Voldemort (although there WAS - Voldemort graduated from the school 50 years before Harry was there, and Harry's parents have been dead for about 20 years, so clearly Voldy was up to something in those 30 years). But they weren't, like, integrally linked to Voldemort's demise and known to him by name or anything.
Lily thought he was a jerk until 7th year or something
Yeah, Harry can screw around and make some dumb choices, like sneaking into Hogsmeade when everyone assumes a violent murderer is after him, but he has a moral compass, dammit!
Voldemort was active when James, Sirius, and Remus were in school, and he was gaining power and recruiting death eaters.
And I think you're exactly right, they were removed from the war, because Voldemort wasn't trying to break in to Hogwarts when they were there. Their time at Hogwarts was safe and normal, because the adults were fighting Voldemort (although they obviously joined the fight when they graduated) and they got to attend classes and goof around. This made a huge, huge difference in how James acted vs. how Harry acted.
Also, James had grown up as an only child with two loving parents, while Harry had to grow up with the Dursleys. Maybe Harry would have been more arrogant if he had been raised by James.
I always feel bad for Harry when he learns that about James, though.