catbus, I'm sorry if you feel like my annoyance with this article spilled over to you. I read your question as either supporting the way that the author of this piece compared formula to fake blood or as implying that formula is a word only native English speakers use. I'm not sure what else you think I've done, so I'll leave it at that.
I'm also cranky with PMS, so I'm admittedly sensitive. I thought I've detected annoyance toward me, but can't think of anything specific, so never mind! Please?
I guess too it depends on what we consider breastfeeding. If you EP, do you consider yourself a breastfeeder? (That's a serious question). I've never thought too much about it before.
When I did, there were many in the EP groups who were vocal and adamant that they too were breastfeeding their babies.
I didn't care about labels really. The only place my insecurities surfaced were at the breastfeeding baby group we used to attend with nursing moms all over the room. I felt like they would judge me because here we are talking about nursing and I just stuck a bottle in my baby's mouth. Well i can't help it if you people didn't want to talk about pumping.
Before kids, I probably would've been in the "that's gross" coworker group at simpsongal's office. I knew exactly 0 about breastfeeding until they wheeled in a pump around midnight after DD was born and the nurse muttered something like "preemie babies do better if you can give them breast milk so here you go."
Post by noodleskooze on Mar 26, 2015 21:14:35 GMT -5
Maybe it's my own hang up, but I don't consider myself as ever having breastfed even though I EPed for three months (and some of that was with a shield and syringe).
I would have been fine giving Leo donor milk had he truly needed it for health reasons, but isn't it expensive/hard to come by?
Maybe it's my own hang up, but I don't consider myself as ever having breastfed even though I EPed for three months (and some of that was with a shield and syringe).
I would have been fine giving Leo donor milk had he truly needed it for health reasons, but isn't it expensive/hard to come by?
It can be, it depends. Going through a milk bank from what I read was expensive. One place said $4/an ounce which is insane! But there are groups out there (Human Milk for Human Babies is one I looked in to, there are a lot of regional FB groups) that help facilitate the donations and those are free. Basically it's people with extra milk they either want to get rid of for some reason or they pump extra especially to donate, and people that want/need breastmilk for whatever reason. It's free to do this but sometimes the ones donating may ask you to replace bags. My friend made a good point that using these groups to get milk isn't quite as risky as it seems just because they aren't getting money or anything from giving anyone the milk, so it's fairly unlikely that someone you wouldn't want milk from would be trying to sell you their milk. You never know though, which is why I'm hesitant about it.
I have nothing to add to this except I think Donor milk is great, and my baby gets fed donor milk every day, along with formula. We weren't comfortable with complete strangers' milk, but this came from a friend, so we were grateful for it.
IMO, if the milk comes from the breast, it's breastfeeding. I pumped and nursed. Knowing what I know now about my ability to produce so much, I'll likely donate a lot if I have a second. I hoarded a lot with my first because I was paranoid about what-ifs. I finally donated just about all of it.
When I donated, the woman dropped by my office, so my coworkers all knew about it and most were grossed out. I don't think any realized it was a thing people do, and this is in an office where breastfeeding and even home births were the norm.
To be honest, I'd have no problems nursing someone else's child if they were cool with it. I'd let a close friend or family member nurse my child if need be. If wet nurses used to do it, why not now? I'm also a huge advocate of normalizing the things that happens with a woman's body though. I speak openly about pregnancy, child birth, and breast feeding. The less of a mystery it is to people, the better it is for all.
As a non BFer I have questions. First I don't think this was gross or weird. It was her and her friends decision.
If you get donated milk from a bank, how tested is it? Do they check for all drugs? How could they? I don't think there would be a test for a smoker who pumps and donates. They just rely on trust. If you use donated milk, you don't know the mothers diet. What if she eats gassy foods all the time? Or just once? And your kid is gassy - you would have way of knowing if it was the milk or your kid etx.
I guess I just don't see why the average mom would opt for donated milk. I can see for preemies or sick babies where breast milk has been shown to be better for some reason. But the average child? I don't see it. Correct me on the above if I am wrong - just a formula feeder. And this case is different - it was an agreement between them. I assume your friends know you and trust your drug use etx.
As a non BFer I have questions. First I don't think this was gross or weird. It was her and her friends decision.
If you get donated milk from a bank, how tested is it? Do they check for all drugs? How could they? I don't think there would be a test for a smoker who pumps and donates. They just rely on trust. If you use donated milk, you don't know the mothers diet. What if she eats gassy foods all the time? Or just once? And your kid is gassy - you would have way of knowing if it was the milk or your kid etx.
I guess I just don't see why the average mom would opt for donated milk. I can see for preemies or sick babies where breast milk has been shown to be better for some reason. But the average child? I don't see it. Correct me on the above if I am wrong - just a formula feeder. And this case is different - it was an agreement between them. I assume your friends know you and trust your drug use etx.
I am pretty sure milk bank milk is highly tested. Like whatever they test blood for and maybe then some? It is also pasteurized. They might even test mom before donation. I just know it is super strict. I also think it is really only available for preemies because there is not a lot of it.
If i could not breastfeed i personally would want donor milk over formula if available because I personally feel it is a preferred option. I think it is just personal choice. I am trying to not be offensive so i hope it is not interpreted as such, but if donor milk was just as available as formula and for the same price, i would pick human milk because it is what our bodies evolved to drink. But since this is not the case, i would probably do formula.
@hannymaren if you don't go through a milk bank (safer but more expensive as discussed), you are unfortunately relying on trust. However like I said before, it's unlikely that free donated milk would be from a drug user. Typically a drug user would want to sell the milk, but many organizations don't allow that. I don't feel like most "bad" people would think "hey, you know what would be funny? Do some drugs, then donate my milk to a random baby!" Also with these groups, the mom will usually disclose her diet and caffeine intake as well as smoking or drinking. You do have to take their word on it, but in my mind, why would someone lie if they aren't really benefiting from donating the milk?
If you get donated milk from a bank, how tested is it? Do they check for all drugs? How could they? I don't think there would be a test for a smoker who pumps and donates. They just rely on trust. If you use donated milk, you don't know the mothers diet. What if she eats gassy foods all the time? Or just once? And your kid is gassy - you would have way of knowing if it was the milk or your kid etx.
I guess I just don't see why the average mom would opt for donated milk. I can see for preemies or sick babies where breast milk has been shown to be better for some reason. But the average child? I don't see it. Correct me on the above if I am wrong - just a formula feeder. And this case is different - it was an agreement between them. I assume your friends know you and trust your drug use etx.
Milk bank milk is highly tested. Both testing of the mother for major things like HIV that are transmittable through milk before they are allowed to donate, and testing of the milk itself. It is pasteurized, which takes care of most things. While there is some element of trust, they also ask for medical records from doctors (to say you're healthy enough to donate, to say your baby is healthy enough to not need the extra milk for them) so you'd have to be lying to the milk bank AND your doctors and be ok with that. In the history of the milk banks, I have never heard of them having any problems. Sure, there is some risk, just like with blood transfusions. Nothing is perfect.
I don't qualify to donate to a milk bank because I did not clean and sterilize my parts between pumps when I was working. I only refrigerated or stored on ice. They are very strict with the protocols they want pumpers to follow. I knew my milk was safe (after all, I am feeding it to my own children, too!) but I still didn't lie to make them accept the donation. I just found other mothers to donate to directly who didn't have preemies and were comfortable with my procedure. People looking for milk will ask for my history of smoking, drinking, diet, any meds taken when BFing, etc. One mother asked me for the same blood tests the milk bank requires. I answer honestly and they see my baby thriving and I build their trust. It is not blind faith. Perhaps if my baby had a real medical intolerance, it would be an issue... but someone with a baby that is sensitive to dairy, for example, will say that in their request for milk.
Basically, it comes down to this: Do you think your friends that are BFing their children are harming their kids with their milk? If not, then their milk wouldn't harm your kid, either.
Formula is just fine and no one is judging your choice to FF. But breast milk is just fine, too, even for the average kid.
Ditto the pp that have donated to a bank. I do think it's limited what they can test the milk for, but they screen donors fairly extensively. I had to do blood work and my doctor had to vouch for my general health. They had specific criteria, like no alcohol for 12 hours before a pump. Generally, people that are altruistic enough to want to work hard enough to donate milk (which takes a lot of time to collect, takes up your freezer space, etc.) are people trying to help vulnerable babies survive.
I do think anyone that chooses to accept informal milk sharing is judged hard. And that's a shame. It's a valid choice. Not an easy choice, and one that requires a great deal of trust and reliance on other people.
I've also heard/read a lot that suggests that the presumptions that what the mom eats is really having a major effect on the quality of breastmilk, absent severe malnutrition on the part of the mother, is overblown.
I guess I just don't see why the average mom would opt for donated milk. I can see for preemies or sick babies where breast milk has been shown to be better for some reason. But the average child? I don't see it. Correct me on the above if I am wrong - just a formula feeder. And this case is different - it was an agreement between them. I assume your friends know you and trust your drug use etx.
I am a BFer and, if I didn't breast feed, I would totally go for formula before getting donated milk. Not because I think it is weird in anyway, just because I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of dealing with it. Part of the perk of BFing (for me at least) is the fact that I can do it without having to lug around bottles and worrying about the milk going off before DD has used it. Unless there were a medical reason that DD ABSOLUTELY needed BM to help her thrive, I wouldn't do it.. That being said, I would have no problem donating to a friend if she were in need.
I've also heard/read a lot that suggests that the presumptions that what the mom eats is really having a major effect on the quality of breastmilk, absent severe malnutrition on the part of the mother, is overblown.
This is also very true. I didn't even address it because I get tired of trying to defend a preference for breast milk. It's a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
I've also heard/read a lot that suggests that the presumptions that what the mom eats is really having a major effect on the quality of breastmilk, absent severe malnutrition on the part of the mother, is overblown.
This is also very true. I didn't even address it because I get tired of trying to defend a preference for breast milk. It's a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
And not to discount totally that sometimes babies have legit intolerances and all, but I think it's pretty well accepted that a lot of the "My baby can't tolerate it when I eat cheese/eggs/wheat/bananas/tofu/apples/string beans/hamburgers/pizza/indian food" is about as scientifically credible as the 40% of yuppies who claim gluten intolerance these days.
I guess I just don't see why the average mom would opt for donated milk. I can see for preemies or sick babies where breast milk has been shown to be better for some reason. But the average child? I don't see it. Correct me on the above if I am wrong - just a formula feeder. And this case is different - it was an agreement between them. I assume your friends know you and trust your drug use etx.
I am a BFer and, if I didn't breast feed, I would totally go for formula before getting donated milk. Not because I think it is weird in anyway, just because I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of dealing with it. Part of the perk of BFing (for me at least) is the fact that I can do it without having to lug around bottles and worrying about the milk going off before DD has used it. Unless there were a medical reason that DD ABSOLUTELY needed BM to help her thrive, I wouldn't do it.. That being said, I would have no problem donating to a friend if she were in need.
I can get behind this. I'd take some frozen bags from a friend, but I wouldn't bother going for boiled down milk bank milk unless I had a baby who was still a preemie or had some other condition where it made sense.
I guess I just don't see why the average mom would opt for donated milk. I can see for preemies or sick babies where breast milk has been shown to be better for some reason. But the average child? I don't see it. Correct me on the above if I am wrong - just a formula feeder. And this case is different - it was an agreement between them. I assume your friends know you and trust your drug use etx.
I am a BFer and, if I didn't breast feed, I would totally go for formula before getting donated milk. Not because I think it is weird in anyway, just because I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of dealing with it. Part of the perk of BFing (for me at least) is the fact that I can do it without having to lug around bottles and worrying about the milk going off before DD has used it. Unless there were a medical reason that DD ABSOLUTELY needed BM to help her thrive, I wouldn't do it.. That being said, I would have no problem donating to a friend if she were in need.
Yeah, i get that given the differences in obtaining the two. But if they sold breastmilk at Target, would that change? I mean I really think if it became normalized and sold easily for a similar price to formula a lot of people would make the choice to use donated milk. I mean I would lol.
As a non BFer I have questions. First I don't think this was gross or weird. It was her and her friends decision.
If you get donated milk from a bank, how tested is it? Do they check for all drugs? How could they? I don't think there would be a test for a smoker who pumps and donates. They just rely on trust. If you use donated milk, you don't know the mothers diet. What if she eats gassy foods all the time? Or just once? And your kid is gassy - you would have way of knowing if it was the milk or your kid etx.
I guess I just don't see why the average mom would opt for donated milk. I can see for preemies or sick babies where breast milk has been shown to be better for some reason. But the average child? I don't see it. Correct me on the above if I am wrong - just a formula feeder. And this case is different - it was an agreement between them. I assume your friends know you and trust your drug use etx.
I donated to a bank, it is highly tested and regulated. They tested me for HIV, Hep A/B/C, etc. They also obtained all of my medical records and I had to disclose over the counter meds/alchohal/drugs etc used. In addition, they asked if I had been out of the state and country (I actually had to toss out a month's worth of milk due to my Caribbean cruise as it was a banned zone for 21 days after the trip). They also test the milk itself and do a pasteurization-like process on it.
I've also heard/read a lot that suggests that the presumptions that what the mom eats is really having a major effect on the quality of breastmilk, absent severe malnutrition on the part of the mother, is overblown.
This is also very true. I didn't even address it because I get tired of trying to defend a preference for breast milk. It's a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
I didn't breastfeed so I can only assume the people who complain that gassy foods cause gassy babies are telling the truth.
Could you get donated breastmilk of you just didn't want to breastfeed? Or is there some kind of screening for recipients too?
If you're going through a milk bank, from what I was reading, they work directly with hospitals or ask for a "prescription" but that was just one place. For the free person to person donations, that's for whoever really. The person donating may choose to be picky though.
This is also very true. I didn't even address it because I get tired of trying to defend a preference for breast milk. It's a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
And not to discount totally that sometimes babies have legit intolerances and all, but I think it's pretty well accepted that a lot of the "My baby can't tolerate it when I eat cheese/eggs/wheat/bananas/tofu/apples/string beans/hamburgers/pizza/indian food" is about as scientifically credible as the 40% of yuppies who claim gluten intolerance these days.
This seems so common around here that some of my friends assume I don't eat dairy since I BF. Wtf? GIVE ME ALL THE ICE CREAM
I'm not trying to argue, I promise, but "formula" is kind of an in-word in a way. It would be meaningless to a non-native English speaker. So how would you explain formula to someone unfamiliar with it? I would describe it as a formulated food for infants, meant to simulate breast milk.
Is this a real question? Formula is marketed, heavily marketed, all over the world. Nestlé and the like have made darned sure that almost any woman of childbearing age knows what " formula" is. In the languages I speak, "artificial baby milk" is not the accepted term.
As an aside - in Norwegian, the word for formula is morsmelkerstatning - literal translation = "mothers milk replacement".
Could you get donated breastmilk of you just didn't want to breastfeed? Or is there some kind of screening for recipients too?
Milk banks are on such short supply that you need an RX, so someone with a healthy baby that can tolerate formula will not be allowed to buy it. And honestly, it would be prohibitively expensive without insurance footing the bill.
People can ask for peer to peer donations no matter their circumstance, but I can't imagine they'd get much without either having tried to BF or having a medical reason not to try.
I just can't work up any frenzy for this. I mean, really. I drink breast milk from cows. A whole other species from me. I fed that to my kids for years, too till they grew up and moved away and drank it on their own. Why on earth wouldn't it be ok to drink breast milk from other humans?
She sounds pretty dramatic. It was a really nice thing to do for her friend.
I'm confident that if you put a "cow breastmilk" label on one gallon and a "cow milk label" on another gallon that the cow breastmilk milk would get scoffed at and many wouldn't buy it. Americans don't think about their food sources.
This is also very true. I didn't even address it because I get tired of trying to defend a preference for breast milk. It's a perfectly reasonable preference to have.
And not to discount totally that sometimes babies have legit intolerances and all, but I think it's pretty well accepted that a lot of the "My baby can't tolerate it when I eat cheese/eggs/wheat/bananas/tofu/apples/string beans/hamburgers/pizza/indian food" is about as scientifically credible as the 40% of yuppies who claim gluten intolerance these days.
I know quite a few babies who have various food intolerances. Heck, even on this board most people know what MSPI is. I don't doubt that it's the exception rather than the rule but I reall don't thin it's overblown.
I just can't work up any frenzy for this. I mean, really. I drink breast milk from cows. A whole other species from me. I fed that to my kids for years, too till they grew up and moved away and drank it on their own. Why on earth wouldn't it be ok to drink breast milk from other humans?
She sounds pretty dramatic. It was a really nice thing to do for her friend.
This. It's never been a big deal to me. I've used non-milk bank donated milk and I've donated to a friend in the past. *shrug*