NYT: sleep train 12 hrs @8 wks. Do you have the guts?

[mominatrix]

omg.
I would think even dedicated sleep trainers would think this is pretty... it's a bit much.


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Sleep Training at 8 Weeks: ‘Do You Have the Guts?’
By AIMEE MOLLOY MARCH 26, 2015 11:00 AM March 26, 2015 11:00 am 137 Comments





A few months ago, my husband and I took our newborn daughter to her two-month doctor’s appointment at Tribeca Pediatrics, the largest pediatric practice in New York City. We were feeling tired, but happy with our daughter’s progress. She was gaining weight, nursing like a champ, and — best of all — giving us six- to eight-hour stretches of sleep pretty consistently. When we told our pediatrician, she seemed less impressed.

“She could be sleeping 12 hours a night,” she said. “It’s time to think about sleep training.”

Sleep training? An 8-week-old?

Our doctor coached us on the recommended technique. Place all 12 hungry, needy pounds of our daughter in her crib at 7 p.m. Close the door and return at 7 a.m. No checking, no consoling and definitely no feeding. She would cry — for hours, possibly — but in about three nights she’d get the picture that nobody was coming to her rescue and would begin to sleep through the night.

The promise that she (and we) could sleep longer was certainly alluring, and I’m no stranger to the idea of allowing your child to cry-it-out in order to learn to sleep. But I was surprised to hear it suggested at 8 weeks. Was it really O.K. to try cry-it-out on such a tiny, hungry, helpless little creature?

The man behind this idea is Dr. Michel Cohen, who founded Tribeca Pediatrics in 1994. His practice now sees nearly 32,000 patients at offices in New York, New Jersey and Los Angeles. “It comes down to this,” Dr. Cohen told me when I called to ask about this approach. “Do you have the guts to do what I’m suggesting? If so, you’ll see it works.” And if not? “Then I expect to see you back at six months, exhausted, asking why your kid is still getting up a few times a night.”

Dr. Cohen, who was born in France and is known for pushing the envelope on conventional parenting wisdom (cow’s milk is fine at 8 months, hold off on antibiotic use for ear infections) did not arrive arbitrarily at the idea of sleep training at 8 weeks. For about a decade, he — and the dozens of doctors he employs — suggested sleep training at 4 months. But over time, Dr. Cohen began to pay attention to the number of patients whose children were naturally sleeping through the night at a few weeks of age, leading him to question his own advice. If a child could sleep through the night without eating at 4 months, why not 3? When people reported that sleep training at 3 months had worked, then why not try 2? “I then began to suggest sleep training at one month, but found that to be too early,” he said. “Parents were too emotional. Nobody was quite ready.”

According to some professional sleep trainers (yes, those exist), the idea of sleep training at 8 weeks is beginning to gain momentum among other pediatricians, and it’s not difficult to find families willing to sing its praises.

“My wife’s maternity leave was almost over. I was already back to work. We needed our sleep,” said Marques Tracy, who decided with his wife, Roopa, to follow the Tribeca Pediatrics approach soon after their son Aidan turned 2 months old. On the first night, Aidan cried for about three hours on and off. The second night he cried for 45 minutes, and the third, maybe 20 minutes. Aidan has largely slept through the night ever since. “I’d say it worked like a charm,” Marques said.

But it certainly isn’t for everyone, nor does it always go as smoothly. “When our pediatrician gave us the green light to sleep train at 8 weeks, I was surprised, because he was so young. But we decided to try it,” said another mom, Manali, who was reluctant to allow me to use her last name because she fears that her actions sound harsh. Her son is now 7 months old. On the first night, he cried for two and a half hours. On the second, more than five. “At four in the morning, I gave up and went to get him. I held him and cried my eyes out, wondering if I had traumatized him.”

The popular on-the-Internet claim that prolonged crying can cause a host of problems — from attachment issues to brain damage — is not supported by research, and as Janet Krone Kennedy writes in her new book The Good Sleeper, top sleep researchers in the United States say that cry-it-out is proven to be safe and effective. But science and logic may not always be enough to reassure parents trying to endure the agony of listening to their baby cry for several hours in the middle of the night.

“I can see why people struggle with the idea of doing this, because it’s a very hard thing to do,” Mr. Tracy said. “When we first told our in-laws what we were doing, and the approach we were taking, they thought we were monsters. Now they think we’re geniuses.”

As for my husband and me? We, in the end, did not have the guts. And as we prepare for our daughter’s next appointment, chances are we’ll show up, probably exhausted, asking how to get her to sleep through the night.



parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/sleep-training-at-8-weeks-do-you-have-the-guts/?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000&_r=0

[chedifuen]

I can say I would not have the guts for this! I think sleep training has its place but this seems too extreme for me.

[ttt]

Nope.

I am not a terribly crunchy-type person, but there is something highly unnatural about a newborn baby screaming and wailing for comfort and you as a parent just ignoring it for hours on end.

[heyjude]

This isn't new. It's called the Weisenbluth method and its scontroversy is well documented. Way to click bate an old idea NYT.

[terpsfan]

Nope. I had the worst sleeper on the planet and now she's 7 and sleeps all night long, in her own bed, going to sleep by herself asking to "read until she gets tired". She barely ever slept in her crib, breastfed to 2, we got her a double bed so we could lay down with her to sleep, bounced on a yoga ball to get her to sleep for her first year of life. Typically she was sleeping on someone in the moby or ergo.

I say all that to you parents out there feeling pressured about sleep. I was there, bought the books, tried everything and then adopted the "nobody is fighting at 2am and whatever gets us all back to sleep is what works". You are not failing. It works itself out!

ETA- we co slept until getting big beds around 18 months when they were hopping out of cribs(for the first part of the evening they were actually in them! Per HIMYM - nothing good happens after 2 am.

[bears]

Mar 26, 2015 21:24:04 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

Dr. Cohen, who was born in France and is known for pushing the envelope on conventional parenting wisdom (cow’s milk is fine at 8 months, hold off on antibiotic use for ear infections) did not arrive arbitrarily at the idea of sleep training at 8 weeks.  

This is the standard of care for ear infections in many cases.  He's not a renegade pediatrician for this reason.

[Deleted]

I don't even have to read this and no. It's it completely unrealistic to expect or even try to get a tiny ass baby to sleep that long. Their little tummies aren't even big enough.

STOP IT

[erbear]

Well, I don't think it's a bad idea to hold off on antibiotics for most ear infections...

The other stuff. Ew.

[litebright]

I think it's Weissbluth, actually. He wrote Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, which I thought actually had quite a bit of good sleep information. We used a modified form of his CIO approach but never let our girls cry more than about 20 minutes before soothing, and not until around 6 months old. I believe he does recommend CIO to extinguishing, i.e. until they stop, which is basically what the article is about.

The idea that because this Cohen guy saw a few babies who COULD STTN at a few weeks/months old, he went straight to the premise that all babies SHOULD be able to do so, is ridiculous to me.

[penguingrrl]

Nope nope nope! I wi say my oldest slept 12 hours starting at 10 weeks, but that was entirely her own doing. The other two didn't fully sttn until they moved out of the crib and into a bed at 16 months when it suddenly got much better. I can't imagine leaving a tiny newborn crying like that. It was heart breaking enough when they cried in my arms for hours and I was doing all I could to help. Ignoring it would have broken me.

[josieposy]

Do you have the guts to try it with twins Doctor?

Shut the hell up.

[chw57]

Nope. At some point we started waiting a few minutes to go in (and extended that as she got older) but I could not just ignore crying for hours.

[kmpls]

I really think every baby is different.

DS didn't sleep thru the night until 15 months.

DD slept thru the night pretty much from birth.

but I spent her whole pregnancy praying that she would be a good sleeper.mproof prayer works! 

[sushi]

I can't go that long without eating. Why would I expect an infant to?

[heyjude]

My dd actually did start sleeping through the night freakishly early. Like that first week of life I want to say? I had to wake her up to feed her two times a night though because her weight was tanking. I don't think she was normal. That's what my sleep deprived friends all told me anyway.

Don't hate me though, we never had to sleep train her but it shows in how hard it is to actually get her to sleep. Me of the infamous 1 hour bedtime. :/

Total elimination CIOing an infant is horrifying.

I would feel pretty grumpy with the NYT if it wasn't so painfully obvious what they are trying to do here.

[calmcosmo]

Mar 26, 2015 21:39:06 GMT -5 heyjude said:

This isn't new. It's called the Weisenbluth method and its scontroversy is well documented. Way to click bate an old idea NYT.

Do you mean Weissbluth?

He wrote "Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child" and in no way suggests letting a baby scream for hours on end at 8 weeks or 8 months. I've read his book cover to cover (probably more than once) and he is not extreme at all.

The most extreme I've seen is "12 hours by 12 weeks" by Sue Giordano. It didnt feel right for me but I've had friends use it and sing its praises.

[Deleted]

Fuck this shit.

[heyjude]

Mar 26, 2015 23:36:55 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

Mar 26, 2015 21:39:06 GMT -5 heyjude said:

This isn't new. It's called the Weisenbluth method and its scontroversy is well documented. Way to click bate an old idea NYT.

Do you mean Weissbluth?

He wrote "Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child" and in no way suggests letting a baby scream for hours on end at 8 weeks or 8 months. I've read his book cover to cover (probably more than once) and he is not extreme at all.

The most extreme I've seen is "12 hours by 12 weeks" by Sue Giordano. It didnt feel right for me but I've had friends use it and sing its praises.

I don't know. There is someone out there, I thought Weisenbluth or whatever his name is, that advocates total elimination. Leave the kid to cry and don't return. The point is that this article is not treading on new territory. CIOing is one of the greatest of mommy wars.

[Deleted]

I think it's ridiculous to generalize all babies at 2 months. Some weigh double what others weigh. I would assume stomach size correlates some what with overall size. (My tummy can hold more than a preemie for goodness sakes)
How can this be a one size fits all?
Even the way he phrases it - it's about the parents. If you wanted it to be all about your sleep and your needs - you shouldn't have had kids. You don't have to give up your life but there are changes and 12 hours? Why? Even the adults don't sleep 12 hours

[StrawberryBlondie]

My kid did STTN pretty consistently at around 2/3 months, but that was entirely her doing. We took the approach that if she was screaming, she's probably hungry. So we fed her if she woke up screaming.

[forreals]

My 2 year old still doesn't sleep through the night. She has a cold so last night was particularly brutal. The fact that I still can't stomach sleep training answers the question for what I can stomach.
I just really trust it won't last forever . My six year old didn't STTN until around 3 and now she is a pretty awesome sleeper and sleeps through everything , even her sister screaming repeatedly

[Velar Fricative]

Ew no. You don't do this to newborns.

[Velar Fricative]

Mar 26, 2015 23:46:28 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Mar 26, 2015 23:36:55 GMT -5 calmcosmo said:

Do you mean Weissbluth?

He wrote "Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child" and in no way suggests letting a baby scream for hours on end at 8 weeks or 8 months. I've read his book cover to cover (probably more than once) and he is not extreme at all.

The most extreme I've seen is "12 hours by 12 weeks" by Sue Giordano. It didnt feel right for me but I've had friends use it and sing its praises.

I don't know. There is someone out there, I thought Weisenbluth or whatever his name is, that advocates total elimination. Leave the kid to cry and don't return. The point is that this article is not treading on new territory. CIOing is one of the greatest of mommy wars.

I think that's Babywise?

Anyway, I am not anti-ST since Ferber worked wonderfully for us at 5.5 months (she was waking up hourly for weeks by that point after actually being a fairly decent newborn sleeper giving us 5-7 hour stretches). But the OP is awful.

[Deleted]

FWIW, I'm not really opposed to sleep training in general. I'm just not about to pretend that at 8 weeks, I really can discern what my kid needs at 2am based solely on their cry. And nine times out of ten, when an 8 week old baby is crying, it's because they are hungry. At 15 months, I know you aren't starving in the middle of the night. Stop playing with me and let me sleep, ya little chump.

But at 8 weeks, if you cry, mommy's gonna fix it, poor wittle nublet, I bet you're starving. Or maybe you have gas. Or maybe you have a wet diaper. Or maybe you hate me. Did I break my baby? WHY ARE YOU STILL CRYING??? Omg, why did I ever think I was equipped to be someone's parent?

At 8 weeks, you are still firmly in if it cries, it's probably hungry, try to feed it mode.

[cookiemdough]

Lol that a pedi suggested sleep training after parents said their newborn was sleeping 6-8 hours per night. Say whut?

[kirra]

I'm not a parent, so maybe this is a stupid question.

But why did he choose 12 hours at 8 weeks? That's a long time. Way more than the 7-9 hrs of sleep adults are supposed to get.

I would be terrified the baby was hungry or needed its diaper changed. Eight weeks is still tiny.

[arch01]

No. No, no, no.

DS STTN at 8 weeks, but on his own terms. We were lucky. Very lucky. His naps were shit, but I didn't even want to begin CIO til he was much older. We started at 5m and that was early according to some people but it was a sanity saver for all of us.

[omgzombies]

8 weeks is just too little to start sleep training. Totally agree with @helenabonhamcarter, at that age they are crying out of need.  Their tummies are so little, many times it's hunger.  And if you are bf-ing, my concern is that at 8 weeks, I feel like you are still establishing a growing supply, baby is constantly upping the amount of food they need, and if you aren't nursing when baby asks for it, you'll have a harder time producing.  But even if it's just needing to be held and soothed, that little squalling things is 8 weeks old, feed, rock, change, give the baby whatever it wants.  

I've always hated the idea of complete sleep training because I feel like babies needs change so much depending on whether they are teething, going through a growth spurt, whatever.  If they wakeup and they are hurting, I wanted to be able to go in and soothe, if they woke up at 9 months because they are going through another growth spurt, I want to be able to feed them.  

For us, sleep training was much more about teaching our kids how to fall asleep on their own.  We started around 6 months, right around the same time we started introducing solids.  By then I could be sure that a)  the cries were not hunger related, and it was much easier to tell the difference in cries (gas, hunger, bored, etc) b) milk supply was firmly established, and c)  That the baby was waking up more out of habit, then out of any real need.  Once they figured out how to fall asleep without being rocked/fed, the rest pretty much worked itself out.  We put them down awake, and had two nights of crying with both kids.  The longest length was DD who cried on and off for about two hours before finally giving up the ghost, and even then we went in to check on her after every 10 minutes of solid crying.  We didn't pick her up, just soothed her for a minute or so, told her it was bedtime, and left again.  By the second night with both kids, they cried for 20-30 minutes.  Third night, no fuss, no muss. 

After they figured that part out, we'd give them a few minutes at night to settle back down to sleep.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, in which case I would go in to nurse.  Wake-ups dropped from 2 a night to an occasional 1.  By 7 months, night time wake-ups were a maybe once a week sort of thing.  Around 8-9 months, wake-ups dropped off all together.  

After having two kids, my current hypothesis is that it has more to do with baby's size then age.  DD was super tiny (4.5 lbs when she was born), and continuously in the 10th percentile for the first year.  I really do think that her size contributed to needing a little bit longer to get rid of night feeds.  DS was tiny, but not nearly as small (20-30th percentile in the first year, and he was ready to drop those night time feeds much sooner.  Friends with bigger babies have seemed to have an easier time dropping those night time wake-ups.

[Velar Fricative]

Mar 27, 2015 7:43:25 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

For us, sleep training was much more about teaching our kids how to fall asleep on their own.  We started around 6 months, right around the same time we started introducing solids.  By then I could be sure that a)  the cries were not hunger related, and it was much easier to tell the difference in cries (gas, hunger, bored, etc) b) milk supply was firmly established, and c)  That the baby was waking up more out of habit, then out of any real need.  Once they figured out how to fall asleep without being rocked/fed, the rest pretty much worked itself out.  

This was our situation too. DD couldn't move from one sleep cycle to the next (due to object permanence) at all during her worst period of sleep, which lasted about a month until we broke down and read and implemented Ferber. Her sleep was getting much worse, not better, as she grew older and gained more weight. There is a time for STing and it doesn't work for every kid (or it may work at one point for the same kid but not at another point), but I think it's a unity horse among sane people that it's just not something you do to a newborn. That's just heartbreaking.

[leeba25]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this doctor is not in favor of breastfeeding, and probably suggests formula to fill them up longer.