Man, you guys are Debbie Downers today!! I don't think she's done, not at all (unless there is something medical, but presumably that would come out anyway). This is all trumped up nonsense. Have all our constitution loving 'Mericans forgotten about the 4th Amendment? These are her PERSONAL emails; she's under no obligation to share them and has the right to delete them. All the evidence indicates that she properly archived official emails via forwarding/copying as per the law. EVERY federal employee has the sole discretion to decide for themselves what is personal and what is official. I don't know why people think Hilary shouldn't have that discretion as well. She was the fucking Secretary of State!
Post by cookiemdough on Mar 28, 2015 16:25:02 GMT -5
This is kind of like when you accuse your spouse of cheating and the reaction is they wipe all of their texts off their phone. It is fucking shady especially since she did not follow protocol by having a government account in the first place. Then she knows people are questioning whether she was holding back something when this thing broke and then she decides to erase everything? No.
Man, you guys are Debbie Downers today!! I don't think she's done, not at all (unless there is something medical, but presumably that would come out anyway). This is all trumped up nonsense. Have all our constitution loving 'Mericans forgotten about the 4th Amendment? These are her PERSONAL emails; she's under no obligation to share them and has the right to delete them. All the evidence indicates that she properly archived official emails via forwarding/copying as per the law. EVERY federal employee has the sole discretion to decide for themselves what is personal and what is official. I don't know why people think Hilary shouldn't have that discretion as well. She was the fucking Secretary of State!
The answer is right there in your post.
Seriously. But, I get people can live with different things. Or, smoke the really good stuff to allow for shadiness.
This is kind of like when you accuse your spouse of cheating and the reaction is they wipe all of their texts off their phone. It is fucking shady especially since she did not follow protocol by having a government account in the first place. Then she knows people are questioning whether she was holding back something when this thing broke and then she decides to erase everything? No.
And she was supposed to archive all that shit before being asked YEARS later. This is why most people can't/shouldn't use personal email accounts for work.
This is kind of like when you accuse your spouse of cheating and the reaction is they wipe all of their texts off their phone. It is fucking shady especially since she did not follow protocol by having a government account in the first place. Then she knows people are questioning whether she was holding back something when this thing broke and then she decides to erase everything? No.
Post by omgzombies on Mar 28, 2015 16:31:02 GMT -5
I'm kinda wondering if she is really done. Yes, it's shady as fuck but
1) Who the hell else do the Dems have? 2) Is this going to be remembered by the general public by the time the Pres. debates start? Obviously the R's will have it as ammunition, but Americans have the worst attention span ever. I'm wondering if it'll just get swept past, since we'll be bored of the story by then. If it had come out in mid, even early 2016, then yeah it would be the last nail in her coffin. But now, there's plenty of time to gloss over. It'll be interesting to watch if nothing else.
I think she will still run and get the nomination because the Ds have no real bench. Maybe, if nothing else, it will create one? Holding noses is what both sides do very well, I fear.
Post by cookiemdough on Mar 28, 2015 16:36:51 GMT -5
This is why I am so done with the "family members for president" thing we have going on. It precludes other options from gaining traction because the name recognition alone creates front runners that leave others on the sidelines waiting for their chance.
Post by cookiemdough on Mar 28, 2015 16:57:24 GMT -5
When it comes to presidential elections I acknowledge that I am mostly likely going to vote party line but I am still pissed that I can't have options. And if she knew she wanted to run and basically stake her claim as its my turn then she needed to do better by the people who will vote for her.
Does the average voter care about this? Or will it just affect her chances of big donations?
I think I fit squarely in the category of "average voter". I care, absolutely. I raised an eyebrow at her not using secured/encrypted White House email but given that there had been precedent on both sides of the aisle of others doing the same thing, I sort of let it slide.
To wipe her entire server? Without archiving? You only do that to hide incriminating/damning emails. Not only does it get right up to the edge of being illegal, it's a ridiculously stupid decision for either her or her technology advisers to allow.
Post by Onetwothree on Mar 28, 2015 16:59:45 GMT -5
If the Democrats run someone shady who people don't trust, and the Republicans run a fringe lunatic, do you think this will finally be the catalyst to get Americans voting for a third party?
When it comes to presidential elections I acknowledge that I am mostly likely going to vote party line but I am still pissed that I can't have options. And if she knew she wanted to run and basically stake her claim as its my turn then she needed to do better by the people who will vote for her.
YES. Sadly, I will probably vote party line, too, but it pisses me off. Really.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
If the Democrats run someone shady who people don't trust, and the Republicans run a fringe lunatic, do you think this will finally be the catalyst to get Americans voting for a third party?
I'm going to guess not. As much as I'd like to say I'd be willing to vote 3rd party, I find the GOP way too frightening to "waste" a vote against the party line. Sad, but true.
Name one other politician that the public demanded personal emails from as a condition of being elected. None. Name one public official whose private email is monitored as a condition of employment? None.
I don't care what's in her email, and honestly, it wouldn't matter one bit if she had archived and released them. The Rs will latch on to ANYTHING they find and make a big deal out of it. "Oh? You wrote a recommendation letter to Harvard for a friend's daughter? CURRYING FAVOR!! BRIBERY!! UNDUE INFLUENCE!!!"
The bottom line is that she followed the law and protocol in place at the time. We are not entitled to her personal email, and I think it's bullshit that we think we are.
Name one other politician that the public demanded personal emails from as a condition of being elected. None. Name one public official whose private email is monitored as a condition of employment? None.
I don't care what's in her email, and honestly, it wouldn't matter one bit if she had archived and released them. The Rs will latch on to ANYTHING they find and make a big deal out of it. "Oh? You wrote a recommendation letter to Harvard for a friend's daughter? CURRYING FAVOR!! BRIBERY!! UNDUE INFLUENCE!!!"
The bottom line is that she followed the law and protocol in place at the time. We are not entitled to her personal email, and I think it's bullshit that we think we are.
Because she chose to use personal email for work..... This wouldn't matter if she kept them seperate. So people at r looking at her email because she was dumb enough to commingle them. That is the entire point.
The bottom line is that she followed the law and protocol in place at the time. We are not entitled to her personal email, and I think it's bullshit that we think we are.
But we have no idea what was personal or official business. It is her own fault for the questions. I have my own tiny, small business and I never use my business email for personal stuff. It is just stupid and shady.
Also, hasn't Jerry Brown run for president like 40 billion times?? He has been around forever.
Man, you guys are Debbie Downers today!! I don't think she's done, not at all (unless there is something medical, but presumably that would come out anyway). This is all trumped up nonsense. Have all our constitution loving 'Mericans forgotten about the 4th Amendment? These are her PERSONAL emails; she's under no obligation to share them and has the right to delete them. All the evidence indicates that she properly archived official emails via forwarding/copying as per the law. EVERY federal employee has the sole discretion to decide for themselves what is personal and what is official. I don't know why people think Hilary shouldn't have that discretion as well. She was the fucking Secretary of State!
No, it's not trumped up nonsense. It speaks to a much larger ethical issue of hiding shit from the public. HRC's ass was getting it handed to her over Benhagzi and those hearings. While ardent supporters didn't think much could have been done to stop those attacks, it finally died down because we (the public) didn't think there was much there.
Now, you have servers wiped clean so there is NO telling what was on them. It's now Benghazi 2.0. And with the sentence IIOY pulled out, it looks deliberate. She can't hand over anything to clam this storm. The GOP is going to have a field day with this, and it's going to damage her ability to garner wide support.
And as a public employee, I don't delete every e-mail. That's me though. I archive everything. We don't know WHAT discretion she levied because we don't have any documents. That's the problem. You can't comb through what you don't have.
The bottom line is that she followed the law and protocol in place at the time. We are not entitled to her personal email, and I think it's bullshit that we think we are.
But we have no idea what was personal or official business. It is her own fault for the questions. I have my own tiny, small business and I never use my business email for personal stuff. It is just stupid and shady.
Also, hasn't Jerry Brown run for president like 40 billion times?? He has been around forever.
Yes, we do. Official emails were sent/copied/forwarded to federal emails and are archived, which everyone agrees meets the standards in place at the time. If she says the other email was personal, well there isn't a mechanism, law, regulation, protocol, precedent, nor any other thing that allows a review of that (short of a subpoena). It's basic discretion granted to every federal employee. If the rules aren't good enough, then change them. But what kind of crazy totalitarian government do we want that needs *someone* to tell a Cabinet member the difference between official and personal? Or that owns public officials so completely that they literally have no privacy?
Hillary Clinton has been in politics all of her adult life. She knew she was doing some shit she had no business with the work and personal emails and whether or not she was doing something shady, it LOOKS like she was doing something shady and she knew better. Optics matter. She has been at this game too long to do stuff like this especially because the GOP has been on her ass like bloodhounds. This ain't her first time at the rodeo.
And this is what bothers me. The hubris of the Clintons.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
Does the average voter care about this? Or will it just affect her chances of big donations?
I think I fit squarely in the category of "average voter". I care, absolutely. I raised an eyebrow at her not using secured/encrypted White House email but given that there had been precedent on both sides of the aisle of others doing the same thing, I sort of let it slide.
To wipe her entire server? Without archiving? You only do that to hide incriminating/damning emails. Not only does it get right up to the edge of being illegal, it's a ridiculously stupid decision for either her or her technology advisers to allow.
I don't think anyone who hangs on CEP can be considered an average voter.
I don't like that she wiped the server, but if it comes down to a choice between a candidate who practices shady record keeping and one who proposes to remove my right to decide what happens with my body, I'm going to go with shady record keeping.
It is shady as fuck but as far as I'm concerned the only thing that makes her worse than nearly everyone in government and politics is that she got caught.
I'm sure many, many people in DC conduct at least some business on personal emails and trash what they don't want people to see. If it were not par for the course, we would have known about her private email address years ago.
It is absolutely shady as fuck, but it isn't going to be a deal breaker for most people, as most voters don't trust any politician.
It is shady as fuck but as far as I'm concerned the only thing that makes her worse than nearly everyone in government and politics is that she got caught.
I'm sure many, many people in DC conduct at least some business on personal emails and trash what they don't want people to see. If it were not par for the course, we would have known about her private email address years ago.
It is absolutely shady as fuck, but it isn't going to be a deal breaker for most people, as most voters don't trust any politician.
Imagine if she had used best practices and carried around two phones. You think any of these detractors would be like, "she's using her iPhone. That must be a personal email and none of our business." Fuck no! How do we know she wasn't using her iPhone for official business?!? We don't, just like we don't know that about any other official.
And really, I'm appalled that people seem to think the public has a right to go through the SOS's email and determine for themselves what is official and what is personal. I'd sure love to browse Dick Cheney's email from ten years ago, but I'M NOT ENTITLED TO IT!!