Mexican Drug Lords File Complaint Over Inhumane Prison

[iammalcolmx]

Interesting

www.npr.org/2015/03/24/395119095/mexican-drug-lords-file-complaint-over-inhumane-prison-conditions

Some of Mexico's most infamous drug traffickers, including El Chapo Guzman and Edgar "La Barbie" Valdez Villarreal, have written a letter to the country's National Human Rights Commission complaining about conditions in the maximum security prison where they are being held.




AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:

In Mexico, a human rights commission is dealing with a new case of alleged violations by the federal government. The complaints come from the country's most vicious and notorious criminals, more than a hundred of them. They're prisoners at Mexico's maximum security prison, and as NPR's Carrie Kahn reports, they say they're being housed in unsafe and inhumane conditions.

CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: It's quite the list of Mexico's underworld that signed the 11-page handwritten, detailed complaint. Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, who, until his capture last year, was the world's most wanted drug trafficker, signed it. So did Edgar Valdez Villarreal, known as La Barbie. Valdez was born in the U.S. and notorious for his videotaped torturing of victims. Dozens of murderers and kidnappers also added their names. And their list of complaints are just as long - everything from spoiled food filled with worms and rocks, poor medical attention, denial of their 10-minute weekly telephone calls, being held in dirty cells for 23 hours a day and unsanitary conjugal visits. Such visits are a right in Mexican prisons, and the letter describes them held in dirty rooms with odorous mattresses that have springs sticking out. Ruth Villanueva Castilleja, with Mexico's National Human Rights Commission, says the letter, which has been posted on several websites, has been received by her organization. It was delivered back in February.

RUTH VILLANUEVA CASTILLEJA: (Speaking Spanish).

KAHN: And just like any other complaint, Villanueva told reporters it is being investigated. Just how the letter was circulated and signed by so many prisoners, many of whom are longtime rivals and bitter enemies, is not known. Nor is anyone saying when the investigation into the former capos' and murderers' complaints will be completed. Carrie Kahn, NPR News, Mexico City.

[ttt]

Unsanitary conjugal visits for men who murdered and tortured countless people. Gee, I'm just weeping for them....

[IIOY]

I'll be sure add this to my list of human rights concerns.

[origami]

[Velar Fricative]

I don't want there to be rampant abuse or human rights violations in prison but...these drug lords are fucking scary. I can't muster any sympathy based on what they've done to entire villages, families, etc. And I'm sorry, I can't give a shit about unsanitary conjugal visits.

[sugarglider]

This is how I inagine it going down:

Drug lord's lady friend: I don't want to have sex with you anymore.

Drug lord: What, why not?!

DLLF: I...uh...um...[lightbulb]...it's not sanitary in there!


[lawsuit]

[iammalcolmx]

Look I don't want glass and bugs in peoples food HOWEVER you recording yourself torturing folks and I am supposed to lose sleep about you fucking on a dirty mattress?

[eclaires]

It's like clockwork in prison threads!

[IIOY]

Mar 31, 2015 8:39:16 GMT -5 eclaires said:

It's like clockwork in prison threads!

I can only hope that sands comes back to lecture us about the personal pain we cause hypothetical randoms with our fogey posts.

[ttt]

Mar 31, 2015 8:54:13 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Mar 31, 2015 8:39:16 GMT -5 eclaires said:

It's like clockwork in prison threads!

I can only hope that sands comes back to lecture us about the personal pain we cause hypothetical randoms with our fogey posts.

I think it is really insensitive of these people to be complaining about their conjugal visits when some people don't even HAVE their spouses anymore.

[Deleted]

eclaires, are you thinking about SoA? Because I'm totally thinking about SoA.

Look, I don't want jail to be some cushy place for anyone, trust me. But if it's bad enough that Mexican drug lords took time out of their busy drug lording (because you know they're still up to shit in prison fwiw) to put this shit together and then pass it around for rival Mexican drug lords to sign and share and pass it on some more, then shit is serious.

Once a government entity assumes responsibility of a person, then they have a responsibility to see that the people in their charge are provided clean, safe, reasonable accommodation. If you're not going to do that, then take them in the back somewhere and shoot them in the head. (which they probably should do given they are Mexican drug lords but hey)

The fact that these conditions are allowed is corrupt as fuck and I have no faith that prison officials aren't committed crimes themselves nearly as egregious as that of the drug lords they are supposed to be monitoring. Not to mention these levels of corruption is what helps the drug lords continue to do business.

[ttt]

I'm not saying this shouldn't be taken seriously or addressed. But it does not exactly pull at my heartstrings.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2015 9:56:12 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I wonder if these are the conditions for all of the prisoners, or only the conditions for the druglords. And I wonderif any non-drug lord prisoners also sign. Sorry, I did not read the article. But I do not agree with the Inhumane conditions.

Probably for all of the prisoners. I would imagine it's probably worse for a non-drug lord prisoner who doesn't have cocaine money to bribe the guards with. There is no way the guards are taking time out of their busy corrupt as fuck schedule to maintain clean and pretty facilities for some prisoners and urine soaked conjugal rooms for the drug lords.

Plus, we don't care now but watch how much we care when these guys stage a multiple prison riot and start torturing COs and non-cartel prisoners. Because I would imagine that ain't far behind. Mexican prisons regularly break out in riots.

[cville]

Can I both think it's awful and wrong to have inhumane prison conditions AND not care on an emotional level that this particular person is uncomfortable?

YES I CAN.

Head/heart are warring here. The head will win. But the heart talks loud.

[ESF]

Mar 31, 2015 9:56:12 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I wonder if these are the conditions for all of the prisoners, or only the conditions for the druglords. And I wonderif any non-drug lord prisoners also sign. Sorry, I did not read the article. But I do not agree with the Inhumane conditions.

In addition to the points raised by @helenabonhamcarter, the other prisoners probably can't speak up for fear of retribution, whereas I'm sure the guards know that if they fuck with a drug lord, they and their families will be killed.

[Deleted]

And btw, when they do riot, prisoners escape.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apodaca_prison_riot

[decemberwedding07]

Mar 31, 2015 7:27:28 GMT -5 ttt said:

Unsanitary conjugal visits for men who murdered and tortured countless people. Gee, I'm just weeping for them....

I was shocked to learn when listening to NPR the other day that conjugal visits are basically a constitutional right in Mexico.

[decemberwedding07]

Mar 31, 2015 8:31:51 GMT -5 toledo said:

Something I can't believe I need to point out: the government should be held to a higher standard than drug lords. Yes, these complaints should be taken seriously.

I feel bad about everything except for the conjugal visits. I think it's insane that people who are in jail for the things they have done still get those at all.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2015 10:10:46 GMT -5 ESF said:

Mar 31, 2015 9:56:12 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I wonder if these are the conditions for all of the prisoners, or only the conditions for the druglords. And I wonderif any non-drug lord prisoners also sign. Sorry, I did not read the article. But I do not agree with the Inhumane conditions.

In addition to the points raised by @helenabonhamcarter, the other prisoners probably can't speak up for fear of retribution, whereas I'm sure the guards know that if they fuck with a drug lord, they and their families will be killed.

And some of these guards are all in with the cartels. It's a fully broken system and the stuff the drug lords are complaining about are merely symptoms of the whole problem.

If this is what the cartels are complaining about, I can only imagine what is happening to non affiliated prisoners who are in jail for minor charges. Not to mention the lack of faith I have in the Mexican justice system. Some of these people are likely in jail for pissing off a corrupt official, not paying protection money to a cartel or a local dude with some measure of power and a paid off cop or even precinct in his pocket.

[cville]

Mar 31, 2015 10:15:34 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

Mar 31, 2015 8:31:51 GMT -5 toledo said:

Something I can't believe I need to point out: the government should be held to a higher standard than drug lords. Yes, these complaints should be taken seriously.

I feel bad about everything except for the conjugal visits. I think it's insane that people who are in jail for the things they have done still get those at all.

My understanding is that the logic is that conjugal visits will preserve/protect family relationships that are important for reducing recidivism, and hopefully reduce intra-prison rape.  It's not about being all "yay for prisoner orgasms!"

ETA:  I mean, I'm not sure if conjugal visits for Mexican drug lords serve any of these purposes.  But that's the argument I've heard and it's not unpersuasive.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2015 10:15:34 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

Mar 31, 2015 8:31:51 GMT -5 toledo said:

Something I can't believe I need to point out: the government should be held to a higher standard than drug lords. Yes, these complaints should be taken seriously.

I feel bad about everything except for the conjugal visits. I think it's insane that people who are in jail for the things they have done still get those at all.

I feel bad for the women who have to go. From what I understand, if a cartel wants you, they can find you. So what choice does a woman have but to show up when her drug cartel husband/boyfriend/pimp tells her to put on something cute and bring him a cellphone and a blow job? Go into hiding? They try to come here and look what happens? We say nope, your life isn't scary enough for us to let you be a drain on our society and oh look, you have ties to drug cartels and have been arrested for prostitution. Go home.

[decemberwedding07]

Mar 31, 2015 10:19:06 GMT -5 cville said:

Mar 31, 2015 10:15:34 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

I feel bad about everything except for the conjugal visits. I think it's insane that people who are in jail for the things they have done still get those at all.

My understanding is that the logic is that conjugal visits will preserve/protect family relationships that are important for reducing recidivism, and hopefully reduce intra-prison rape.  It's not about being all "yay for prisoner orgasms!"

ETA:  I mean, I'm not sure if conjugal visits for Mexican drug lords serve any of these purposes.  But that's the argument I've heard and it's not unpersuasive.

If what @helenabonhamcarter says is true, then aren't they basically just raping the women who are forced to come to the conjugal visits? I am all for conjugal visits for all sorts of prisoners, but I not for everyone.

[iammalcolmx]

Great point about the riots.

[cville]

Mar 31, 2015 10:25:15 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

Mar 31, 2015 10:19:06 GMT -5 cville said:

My understanding is that the logic is that conjugal visits will preserve/protect family relationships that are important for reducing recidivism, and hopefully reduce intra-prison rape.  It's not about being all "yay for prisoner orgasms!"

ETA:  I mean, I'm not sure if conjugal visits for Mexican drug lords serve any of these purposes.  But that's the argument I've heard and it's not unpersuasive.

If what @helenabonhamcarter says is true, then aren't they basically just raping the women who are forced to come to the conjugal visits? I am all for conjugal visits for all sorts of prisoners, but I not for everyone.

Sure.  Hey, I'm on record in this post not even taking out the tiniest violin in the universe for these complainants.  But if there's a constitutional right to conjugal visits premised on solid state-focused ends, then they have to apply them universally/within reason.  It's no secret I'm NOT an expert on Mexican constitutional or prison-related law, so I have no idea what to think about these visits and entitlement to them.

[meshaliuknits]

First, dibs on "Unsanitary Conjugal Visit" for my band name.

Second, I don't expect prison to be a cushy experience. (Except maybe in Norway.) But if the government is taking responsibility for those people, they should at least provide the minimum to afford those people a mostly clean, mostly safe environment.

[tacosforlife]

Mar 31, 2015 10:27:18 GMT -5 cville said:

Mar 31, 2015 10:25:15 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

If what @helenabonhamcarter says is true, then aren't they basically just raping the women who are forced to come to the conjugal visits? I am all for conjugal visits for all sorts of prisoners, but I not for everyone.

Sure.  Hey, I'm on record in this post not even taking out the tiniest violin in the universe for these complainants.  But if there's a constitutional right to conjugal visits premised on solid state-focused ends, then they have to apply them universally/within reason.  It's no secret I'm NOT an expert on Mexican constitutional or prison-related law, so I have no idea what to think about these visits and entitlement to them.

I don't know why, but this is making me laugh SO HARD.

HOW DARE YOU NOT BE AN EXPERT ON THIS!

I am also super punchy thanks to a terrible night of sleep.

[cville]

Mar 31, 2015 10:34:09 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

Mar 31, 2015 10:27:18 GMT -5 cville said:

Sure.  Hey, I'm on record in this post not even taking out the tiniest violin in the universe for these complainants.  But if there's a constitutional right to conjugal visits premised on solid state-focused ends, then they have to apply them universally/within reason.  It's no secret I'm NOT an expert on Mexican constitutional or prison-related law, so I have no idea what to think about these visits and entitlement to them.

I don't know why, but this is making me laugh SO HARD.

HOW DARE YOU NOT BE AN EXPERT ON THIS!

I am also super punchy thanks to a terrible night of sleep.

I am sorry.

[ttt]

Mar 31, 2015 10:34:09 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

Mar 31, 2015 10:27:18 GMT -5 cville said:

Sure.  Hey, I'm on record in this post not even taking out the tiniest violin in the universe for these complainants.  But if there's a constitutional right to conjugal visits premised on solid state-focused ends, then they have to apply them universally/within reason.  It's no secret I'm NOT an expert on Mexican constitutional or prison-related law, so I have no idea what to think about these visits and entitlement to them.

I don't know why, but this is making me laugh SO HARD.

HOW DARE YOU NOT BE AN EXPERT ON THIS!

I am also super punchy thanks to a terrible night of sleep.

I bet Megan Heimer is, though. 

[msmerymac]

Mar 31, 2015 9:56:12 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I wonder if these are the conditions for all of the prisoners, or only the conditions for the druglords. And I wonderif any non-drug lord prisoners also sign. Sorry, I did not read the article. But I do not agree with the Inhumane conditions.

It's MEXICAN PRISON. It sucks for everyone. 

But I agree that inhumane conditions, even if applied equally across the board, should not be tolerated by a just society. 

[nomad100]

cville "yay for prisoner orgasms!" made me laugh out loud and almost choke on my lunch. (now back to reading the thread)