Chiropractor for Infants

[h]

Apr 1, 2015 10:45:52 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Apr 1, 2015 10:43:04 GMT -5 h said:

I will admit to being generally wary of chiropractors, but plenty of people obviously find them helpful in dealing with chronic back pain, and I am not going to dispute that. But is there really any solid evidence to support the use of chiropractic care as a treatment for lip tie in an infant? That just seems like a stretch to me.

In my case the LC recommended it as an almost last resort after the ENT snipped the tongue tie and we still had problems.  I also tended to have more problems on one boob than another, so we thought perhaps there was an issue that affected one side of DS' neck or body that could be helped.

So was it actually a neck issue rather than a tongue issue? That makes more sense to me. I am just not understanding what a chiropractor would do with a baby's tongue.

(I promise I am not trying to be an ass--just genuinely curious. The role that chiropractic care would play in addressing a tongue issue just doesn't seem obvious or intuitive.)

[AmyRI]

Apr 1, 2015 10:43:04 GMT -5 h said:

I will admit to being generally wary of chiropractors, but plenty of people obviously find them helpful in dealing with chronic back pain, and I am not going to dispute that. But is there really any solid evidence to support the use of chiropractic care as a treatment for lip tie in an infant? That just seems like a stretch to me.

No, I don't think there's any way that it would help a lip tie. Which is why she was referred to a pedi dentist, as well. I have met women who had improvement with babies nursing in the way of their comfort/calmness at the breast and ability to open wider to achieve a better latch with a chiropractic adjustment. I'm not sure I buy it either, unless there's some sign of misalignment like only wanting to lay on one side, but that's for OP to decide if she thinks it would be beneficial. I personally don't view it as a risk like some apparently do.

[anna7602]

Apr 1, 2015 10:43:04 GMT -5 h said:

I will admit to being generally wary of chiropractors, but plenty of people obviously find them helpful in dealing with chronic back pain, and I am not going to dispute that. But is there really any solid evidence to support the use of chiropractic care as a treatment for lip tie in an infant? That just seems like a stretch to me.

The pediatric dentist (who is the real deal in his field and has people travel from all over the US to see him) who dealt with DS's ties  gives all patients a referral to a specific lactation consultant to work with post-op and also strongly advises doing the LC-reco'd tongue exercises in conjunction with a visit or two to a CST. I didn't ask him to cite the studies that support his recommendations, however, and can only speak to how effective it was in our specific case, as I did above. 

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 9:50:25 GMT -5 countthestars said:

Apr 1, 2015 9:29:10 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Interesting assumption that people who don't believe in chiropractics don't have experience with chronic pain. I mentioned the last time this came up that many chiros are also physical therapists. PT works. Subluxations and the like aren't real things.

I've had to go to PT for my back before. It worked for me as well.

I'm not seeing anyone in here saying that people who don't believe in chiropractics don't have experience with chronic pain, nor do I see anyone saying that it is better or worse than PT.

yes, and as I said, J has seen a chiro in addition to ongoing PT for his hypotonia.

But, I have said a few time I am open to all sorts of alternative medicine. I do not believe there is one cure all amd firmly believe integrating therapies and practices can often yield the best results. I have also seen an acupuncturist as has my H.

[lg28]

Personally, I am wary of chiropractors and would not take my children to one. But if someone else wants to, KOKO. It's not something i will get worked up over.

[mrssandro]

There seems to be a ton of aliments that could be helped with chiro pediatrics. The below link is the one I am taking DD to. 

www.dodgefamilychiropractic.com/services/pediatric-care/

I think for people who have been having a lot of problems with a lot of different areas could greatly benefit for at least trying something else besides modern medicine. At this point I am willing to try it all to help DD have a normal-ish infant-hood.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 11:16:46 GMT -5 @upnorth said:

Apr 1, 2015 10:43:04 GMT -5 h said:

I will admit to being generally wary of chiropractors, but plenty of people obviously find them helpful in dealing with chronic back pain, and I am not going to dispute that. But is there really any solid evidence to support the use of chiropractic care as a treatment for lip tie in an infant? That just seems like a stretch to me.

This is where I am.  I did see a chiro this pregnancy for pelvic pain and it was immensely helpful. That said, I can't quite wrap my head around an infant needing adjusted and whether it is really advisable or whether evidence supports it.

I can't speak specifically to lip/tongue tie but here is my anecdote. By 9 mos it was clear that J was falling behind gross motor wise. We had him evaluated by EI and he qualified for PT. We also learned he has hypotonia (and also realized I do too). He was seeing a PT one to two times a week. By 12 mos he was able to get up on all hands and knees but still was not crawling. He was just sort of rocking back and forth but not in the same way you often see younger babies doing this. He just looked stuck.

I had read chiropractic care can often help with hypotonia and I figured I had nothing to lose. So I took him to his first session On a Friday afternoon. Saturday morning we set him down in the living room in a seated position. He immediately got up and crawled away. It was the weirdest thing. Obviously, I'll never know for certain whether it was the chiro or just a coincidence. But it was enough for me to take him back again. After we added the chiro to his repetoire he started making advances so much faster with PT. His PT was commenting on how quickly he was advancing and that she cpuldnt believe the progress. Of course, I was too afraid to ever admit to her that I was taking him to a chiro. I did finally admit it, several months later, and she said she had seen similar results with other kids. I'm not sure why it helped but it did seem to help.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 11:23:44 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

There seems to be a ton of aliments that could be helped with chiro pediatrics. The below link is the one I am taking DD to. 

www.dodgefamilychiropractic.com/services/pediatric-care/

I think for people who have been having a lot of problems with a lot of different areas could greatly benefit for at least trying something else besides modern medicine. At this point I am willing to try it all to help DD have a normal-ish infant-hood.

yes! I agree 100% that so many could benefit from looking beyond western medicine!

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 10:19:47 GMT -5 sent said:

I have got to learn more about these lip ties. I push tongues around all day long and I swear we never discussed lip and tongue ties in my Pediatric Dentistry classes the way they are discussed on mommy boards. Any tongue ties I observe on patients (ages 6 and up) are always anterior. It's almost like I don't believe some of these exist... but I will research it before making final conclusions.

I don't see how a lip tie could be posterior. Just biologically speaking. 

[shelbyann]

I see a chiro regularly (which has helped a ton with my back stiffness/pain). The woman I see also specializes in infants/children and she checks DD too, and has since she was about 8 months, and sometimes does a gentle adjustment with an activator. There is definitely no cracking or anything like that. Mostly she just looks at the alignment of her hips.

I am 99% sure the two are not related, but DD did start sleeping a LOT better shortly after she started going to the chiro with me!

IDK anything about chiro for smaller babies or for feeding issues through.

[Deleted]

I took DS to my chiro at about 6 weeks because we had a terrible time bfing/he was colicky and I was desperate. I'll admit that adjustments in infants do make me nervous but she had done wonderful things for me. DH was basically forbid me to take him again after he found out. I don't know how I feel about cranio-sacral therapy as we only went one time and didn't see any results, but I would probably take my kid if they had gross motor issues as an older baby/toddler like @awinter described.

[cmarie11]

Apr 1, 2015 11:23:44 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

There seems to be a ton of aliments that could be helped with chiro pediatrics. The below link is the one I am taking DD to. 

www.dodgefamilychiropractic.com/services/pediatric-care/

I think for people who have been having a lot of problems with a lot of different areas could greatly benefit for at least trying something else besides modern medicine. At this point I am willing to try it all to help DD have a normal-ish infant-hood.

Agreed, and I'm a PA so I practice western medicine! We certainly don't have all the answers, and chiropractic/PT/acupuncture can help ailments that we don't have great therapies for. 

[Velar Fricative]

[thebreakfastclub]

I guess we will switch out Easter baskets for chiropractors during the big pre-Easter fight this year.

[gibbinator]

A friend of mine had luck taking her baby to an osteopath when he had trouble nursing due to a cone shaped palate (from being in the birth canal too long).

I find myself a bit wary of chiropractors/alternative medicine professionals recently just because they seem to believe that their personal brand of healing will cure everything (and they tend to swing anti-vax as a result). But the same can be said for many doctors. So I guess what I'm saying is vet your health care providers my mom, step mom and bf have both benefited from chiropractors and/or osteopaths for hip, back and arthritis pain.

[sent]

Apr 1, 2015 11:41:10 GMT -5 @republicrat said:

Apr 1, 2015 10:19:47 GMT -5 sent said:

I have got to learn more about these lip ties. I push tongues around all day long and I swear we never discussed lip and tongue ties in my Pediatric Dentistry classes the way they are discussed on mommy boards. Any tongue ties I observe on patients (ages 6 and up) are always anterior. It's almost like I don't believe some of these exist... but I will research it before making final conclusions.

I don't see how a lip tie could be posterior. Just biologically speaking. 

I always hear "posterior tongue tie." I think. An "orofacial myologist" said it was an aponeurosis of something back there. Seems odd that this wasn't covered in that embryology class I took either but that was 15 years ago so maybe I've forgotten a few things. Though some people would put orofacial myologists right there in there same category as craniosacral therapists so there's that...

My laptop keeps trying to change myologist to mycologist.  Fungi, tongue ties, not quite the same field. 

[AmyRI]

Apr 1, 2015 11:26:06 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Apr 1, 2015 10:40:41 GMT -5 AmyRI said:

Here you go:

Really? That was meant to be funny.

Seems tamer than you when someone brings up breastfeeding.

How is that funny? It's just offensive to anyone that's used a chiropractor for any reason. You're mocking an entire industry that many people have found helpful.

I support breastfeeding science and breastfeeding mothers. I realize that a number of people on this board take offense to that, and I've dialed back my posting on the topic since I'm insufferable. But never have I mocked someone for their decision to formula feed like you just mocked anyone that chooses to see a chiropractor.

[pinkdutchtulips]

my bil is a chiro, he adjusted BOTH of his kids immediately after birth (bc you know delivery messes w your spinal alignment )

my niece and nephew have been getting regular adjustments since they were about 3 months old. the idea of taking my 5 yo to one .. yeah no !

[rosebud]

Haven't read all the replies, but pediatric chiros, IME, are all very anti-vax. So I avoid them.

[sent]

Apr 1, 2015 10:27:52 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Apr 1, 2015 10:19:47 GMT -5 sent said:

I have got to learn more about these lip ties. I push tongues around all day long and I swear we never discussed lip and tongue ties in my Pediatric Dentistry classes the way they are discussed on mommy boards. Any tongue ties I observe on patients (ages 6 and up) are always anterior. It's almost like I don't believe some of these exist... but I will research it before making final conclusions.

Google image "breastfeeding lip tie". I think ties in general are hard to diagnose because it's a spectrum - we all have those body parts connecting our tongues to our mouth and our lips to our gums. It's a matter of how much is too much, and there isn't a simple hard line answer to that. 

I don't doubt the lip tie.  The lip tie is real.  I see this in my practice in older kids.  It's a frenum and can have affect on teeth and gums as well when you are older.  Anterior tongue ties are real too. I don't have issue with parents taking their newborns for frenectomies if they think it will help with breastfeeding. 

It's when the "posterior tongue tie" comes up that I raise my eyebrow a little.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 12:30:39 GMT -5 sent said:

Apr 1, 2015 10:27:52 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Google image "breastfeeding lip tie". I think ties in general are hard to diagnose because it's a spectrum - we all have those body parts connecting our tongues to our mouth and our lips to our gums. It's a matter of how much is too much, and there isn't a simple hard line answer to that. 

I don't doubt the lip tie.  The lip tie is real.  I see this in my practice in older kids.  It's called a frenum and can have affect on teeth and gums as well when you are older.  Anterior tongue ties are real too. 

It's when the "posterior tongue tie" comes up that I raise my eyebrow a little.

Ah yeah, I'll confess that after 4 years in fairly hardcore bf-ing circles, I still think this kind of means "it hurts and we don't really know why". 

[anna7602]

Apr 1, 2015 12:30:39 GMT -5 sent said:

Apr 1, 2015 10:27:52 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Google image "breastfeeding lip tie". I think ties in general are hard to diagnose because it's a spectrum - we all have those body parts connecting our tongues to our mouth and our lips to our gums. It's a matter of how much is too much, and there isn't a simple hard line answer to that. 

I don't doubt the lip tie.  The lip tie is real.  I see this in my practice in older kids.  It's a frenum and can have affect on teeth and gums as well when you are older.  Anterior tongue ties are real too. I don't have issue with parents taking their newborns for frenectomies if they think it will help with breastfeeding. 

It's when the "posterior tongue tie" comes up that I raise my eyebrow a little.

Would that your eyebrow raising would just magically erase the nursing pain and difficulty that comes from a posterior tongue tie. 

eta: but to @tokenhoser's point above, who really knows. Maybe the CST is what worked, and not the clipping. The point is that I had to stop nursing almost completely just before DS was 4 months old due to the pain and we were able to resume after visiting a pediatric dentist. DS is 8 months old and I've now spent an equal amount of time nursing him without issue as the time we spent with issue after issue. In any event, I'm all for exploring any options that will improve a nursing relationship, assuming that is what you really want. 

[Deleted]

This explains the "posterior" tongue tie better than I've ever seen it. Makes some sense:
tonguetiehelp.org.uk/wp/?p=97

[Stingyshark]

I didn't read any responses - I'll just give you our experience.

We found out DD had a LT at 4wks. Had a laser revision at 5wks. No relief with pain from breastfeeding.
IBCLC recommended craniosacral therapy, we tried it - i was desperate.

at 9 wks we took DD to a chiropractor 2 hours away that our friends took their son to (he was 12wks when they started treatments). My friend had such great things to say about him, i thought what the hell, why not - it was my very last ditch effort to get some relief from the excruciating pain we had.. Oh, i should add that when we were at the dentist he said DD had a very tight mouth, and that her whole neck and everything just seemed very tight - so this also led me to believe that the chiro could help us.

We took her to be evaluated and he immediately commented that she looked to the left a lot, and cried when he turned her head to the right - not something Ihad ever really noticed, but it made sense once he pointed it out.
She was so worked up that he didn't do much of an adjustment on her bc he didn't want to traumatize her - but he said that he did feel some wackiness in her neck.

We took her about a few days later, and then 1 or 2 more times after that. After the 2nd adjustment we had a few pain free nursing sessions - something we had never had in all 10-11 wks of her life. After the 4th adjustment we were home free - We nursed until she was 14months.

I know it's not everyones cup of tea, but I can't say enough good things about our chiro.

[Stingyshark]

Apr 1, 2015 15:37:17 GMT -5 Stingyshark said:

I didn't read any responses - I'll just give you our experience.

We found out DD had a LT at 4wks. Had a laser revision at 5wks. No relief with pain from breastfeeding.
IBCLC recommended craniosacral therapy, we tried it - i was desperate.

at 9 wks we took DD to a chiropractor 2 hours away that our friends took their son to (he was 12wks when they started treatments). My friend had such great things to say about him, i thought what the hell, why not - it was my very last ditch effort to get some relief from the excruciating pain we had.. Oh, i should add that when we were at the dentist he said DD had a very tight mouth, and that her whole neck and everything just seemed very tight - so this also led me to believe that the chiro could help us.

We took her to be evaluated and he immediately commented that she looked to the left a lot, and cried when he turned her head to the right - not something Ihad ever really noticed, but it made sense once he pointed it out.
She was so worked up that he didn't do much of an adjustment on her bc he didn't want to traumatize her - but he said that he did feel some wackiness in her neck.

We took her about a few days later, and then 1 or 2 more times after that. After the 2nd adjustment we had a few pain free nursing sessions - something we had never had in all 10-11 wks of her life. After the 4th adjustment we were home free - We nursed until she was 14months.

I know it's not everyones cup of tea, but I can't say enough good things about our chiro.

luckyno7

[sent]

Apr 1, 2015 14:05:36 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

This explains the "posterior" tongue tie better than I've ever seen it. Makes some sense:
tonguetiehelp.org.uk/wp/?p=97

So I looked this up on the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry website because this has really been bugging me since I heard about it over a year ago.  I'll paste the relevant reading and links below, but basically the AAPD says there is no standardized classification that exists to describe the degree of a tongue tie in dentistry or medicine.  Tongue ties absolutely exist.  They can be cut and mothers report feeling an improved relationship but even this hasn't been adequately studied to make firm recommendations for it.  But there is no criteria or classification that distinguishes ankyloglossia as "anterior" versus "posterior" or possibly both and is it a little bit tied or whoa, a lot tied.  So on some level to tell a mom "oh, it's a posterior tongue tie" is like you alluded to, just a way to give hair pats and acknowledge breast feeding can be hard.  I learned something new about my own field.

www.aapd.org/media/Policies_Guidelines/G_OralSurgery.pdf

Ankyloglossia has been associated with problems with breast- feeding among neonates, tongue mobility and speech, malocclusion, and gingival recession.  During breast- feeding, a short frenum can cause ineffective latch, inadequate milk transfer and intake, and persistent maternal nipple pain, all of which can affect feeding adversely. When indicated, frenuloplasty (various methods to release the tongue tie and correct the anatomic situation) or frenectomy (simple cutting of the frenulum) may be a successful approach to facilitate breastfeeding; however, there is a need for evidence-based research to determine indications for treatment. This indicates that there is a need to standardize a classification system and justify parameters for surgical correction of ankyloglossia among neonates.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 21:19:56 GMT -5 sent said:

Apr 1, 2015 14:05:36 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

This explains the "posterior" tongue tie better than I've ever seen it. Makes some sense:
tonguetiehelp.org.uk/wp/?p=97

So I looked this up on the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry website because this has really been bugging me since I heard about it over a year ago.  I'll paste the relevant reading and links below, but basically the AAPD says there is no standardized classification that exists to describe the degree of a tongue tie in dentistry or medicine.  Tongue ties absolutely exist.  They can be cut and mothers report feeling an improved relationship but even this hasn't been adequately studied to make firm recommendations for it.  But there is no criteria or classification that distinguishes ankyloglossia as "anterior" versus "posterior" or possibly both and is it a little bit tied or whoa, a lot tied.  So on some level to tell a mom "oh, it's a posterior tongue tie" is like you alluded to, just a way to give hair pats and acknowledge breast feeding can be hard.  I learned something new about my own field.

www.aapd.org/media/Policies_Guidelines/G_OralSurgery.pdf

Ankyloglossia has been associated with problems with breast- feeding among neonates, tongue mobility and speech, malocclusion, and gingival recession.  During breast- feeding, a short frenum can cause ineffective latch, inadequate milk transfer and intake, and persistent maternal nipple pain, all of which can affect feeding adversely. When indicated, frenuloplasty (various methods to release the tongue tie and correct the anatomic situation) or frenectomy (simple cutting of the frenulum) may be a successful approach to facilitate breastfeeding; however, there is a need for evidence-based research to determine indications for treatment. This indicates that there is a need to standardize a classification system and justify parameters for surgical correction of ankyloglossia among neonates.

Sounds like you need to get an advanced degree with creating a tie grading system as a thesis.

At least part of the problem is that "just give formula" was a totally acceptable answer for a few decades. You don't need to research tongue/lip ties if the solution to painful breastfeeding is formula.